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Post by michael on Sept 2, 2020 11:12:49 GMT
Electric cars are influenced by the weather, age of the battery, speed, payload. I know ICE cars are too but to a far lesser extent and when they run out it's quick and easy to fill them up. The charging infrastructure and time remains a barrier.
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Post by johnc on Sept 2, 2020 12:16:38 GMT
The range of electric cars still appears to be hugely influenced by speed so while Tesla 3 guy might genuinely get 400 miles is he doing that at 70-80mph? A bit like a petrol car if you keep the speed about 65 there is a marked improvement in "economy". When you push past 70 you are travelling about 8 miles for every 10 the car thinks it should be able to do.
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Post by Tim on Sept 2, 2020 13:03:28 GMT
Agreed but I think (from reading) the difference is much more pronounced with electric. That's presumably why you usually see Tesla Model Ss cruising on the motorway at 65 and only using a tiny fraction of available performance on acceleration.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 2, 2020 13:46:46 GMT
With non-electric cars, it's also down to gearing. In town or if driven aggressively on back roads, my car's fuel consumption plummets and it's probably not materially different from what I used to get from the M135i.
But the 440i's 8spd auto means the engine is spinning at barely 2,000 rpm at French/Italian motorway cruising speeds of about 85-90mph (given that the speed limit is 80mph), hence the decent long distance range. At those speeds, the 6spd manual in the M135i meant it was doing nearer 3,000 rpm with a consequent effect on economy.
I assume that if I stuck to the speed limit in the UK, the 440i would probably achieve 500 miles per tankful doing only motorway miles.
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 2, 2020 14:25:49 GMT
I assume that because I stick to the speed limit in the UK, the 440i would probably achieve 500 miles per tankful doing only motorway miles. Fixed an element of your post The fear of battery charge drop and journey planning based on the refuelling infrastructure is why there hasn't been a massive mainsteam move to all-electric. That is changing hence a sudden rash of PHEVs of familiar cars - you can still do the regular short journeys, including commutes, in electric mode whilst taking on longer journeys without that fear.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 2, 2020 14:30:52 GMT
I assume that because I stick to the speed limit in the UK, the 440i would probably achieve 500 miles per tankful doing only motorway miles. Fixed an element of your post You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment (further)!
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Post by ChrisM on Sept 2, 2020 14:38:44 GMT
I wish that the tech was in a car I wanted and could afford. Make the range 500 miles and it would be even more tempting Why would 500 miles be more tempting than 400? I can think of only one time in my life where I’ve driven over 400 miles without stopping. It's not the non-stopping, it's the lack of ability to recharge at destination before commencing the homeward journey. Leave home, go to local town to do some shopping/errands etc, back home then drive to, say Nottingham where elder daughter still has some of her stuff. No time or guaranteed place to recharge a car before homeward journey. With a diesel, I know that if I refill the evening before I have no worries about fuel until I've done the trip and have been back home for a while. With electric and 400 miles of range, on the way home..... well I'd have either had to find somewhere to stop and that would have delayed me considerably, or else I'd be petrified of a road closure and diversion that could add miles to the journey. If only there were solar cells on the roof that could provide continual recharging, particularly useful when stuck in traffic jams
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 14:40:40 GMT
Solar panels might be enough for the aircon but not for the motor.
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Post by johnc on Sept 2, 2020 16:06:52 GMT
The only solution if the Govt want us all to go electric, is to have twice the number of rapid chargers are there are currently petrol pumps. A rapid charge of 15 to 20 mins should give 100 to 150 miles which would be enough for most and for those who need a bigger fill, they will be up to 80% in under an hour.
Until now, charging up at home has kept the car fully charged with no problems but there is a serious nervousness about heading into the unknown and passing the point of no return in the hope that the charger you are heading for is rapid, working and free. If not, with perhaps 50 miles range left, it becomes a game of chance with an ever increasing risk of becoming stranded.
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Post by Tim on Sept 2, 2020 16:11:55 GMT
If you bring it to St Andrews you're welcome to stop by for some juice. I'll get you to cut the grass or wash a car in return (although no need to spend all day on it with ceramic coatings, etc)
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Post by johnc on Sept 2, 2020 16:32:38 GMT
(although no need to spend all day on it with ceramic coatings, etc) Thanks Tim. If we have to plug it in to a 3 pin socket it will probably take 12 to 15 hours so i'll have your car gleaming in that time and put stripes in your grass. I'm glad to say that a ceramic coating is only a once in every 4 or 5 years occasion although I do my wheels every year.
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Post by Martin on Sept 2, 2020 16:37:38 GMT
Interesting video (again) from Harry M talking about 12 months with a full electric and why that hasn’t really worked as a family car and how even after 3 weeks with a PHEV he’s convinced that’s the best solution right now. Nothing earth shattering about that, as I think we’ve all come to that conclusion, but interesting to hear for someone who’s lived with both. The mileage they’ve both done tells the story on its own.
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Post by Martin on Sept 2, 2020 16:39:06 GMT
If you bring it to St Andrews you're welcome to stop by for some juice. I'll get you to cut the grass or wash a car in return (although no need to spend all day on it with ceramic coatings, etc) You can leave it with me for a while when you come down to Peterborough, but I’d rather you come down in the M5 and left that for a couple of weeks. Save you bringing a second driver!
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Post by johnc on Sept 2, 2020 16:56:49 GMT
You can leave it with me for a while when you come down to Peterborough, but I’d rather you come down in the M5 and left that for a couple of weeks. Save you bringing a second driver! I think we will be in the M5 for the Nottingham/Peterborough trip because of the range anxiety on such a long journey (and being the first trip longer than 50 miles it is too big a first step) I watched Harry's Garage and his move to the X5 45e. I would agree that is an eminently sensible car for 99% of people. Unfortunately the Government have set the bar too high for hybrids with a requirement that they do 120 miles on electric only to get the same tax benefits as a fully electric car. The personal tax cost of the X5 45e is still significant (£4,500 +) due to the blinkered Government thinking and it is unlikely to make many people choose them as company cars unless they are at the very sharp end of the earnings ladder or very wealthy and able to buy personally. Company's also get less tax benefits so may not even give the option of a vehicle costing a likely £70K with extras.
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Post by chipbutty on Sept 2, 2020 20:43:06 GMT
I am not a fan of PHEVs conceptually (requirement driven purely by ill thought out co2 certification rules and fleet co2/user taxation policy).
I understand that if you are a user chooser or have the opportunity to run in pure EV mode for a significant proportion of your daily mileage, then they are a no brainier (or very attractive). However, I find the combination of an EV and ICE powertrain wasteful and unduly flattered by the daft way they are certified.
John, when you say the personal tax cost of the X5 45e is significant are you talking BIK ? The 45e is only 6% compared to 37% of a 30d which equates to £1600 a year for the PHEV and £9000 a year for the diesel (40% tax payer).
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Post by johnc on Sept 7, 2020 15:23:55 GMT
John, when you say the personal tax cost of the X5 45e is significant are you talking BIK ? The 45e is only 6% compared to 37% of a 30d which equates to £1600 a year for the PHEV and £9000 a year for the diesel (40% tax payer). Yes it was personal tax. I know £1,600 a year isn't huge but it's a lot more than zero and only heading in one direction. However from an employer's point of view the cost of an electric car can be deducted 100% from profits in the year of purchase whereas a hybrid like the 45e costing £70K would be restricted to 18% p.a. on a reducing balance basis and it would be added to the pool effectively meaning 20 years to get tax relief on the full cost.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 1, 2020 9:35:48 GMT
On the topic of economy, last night driving home from the supermarket in the Fiat, whilst fumbling for the wipers, I accidently pressed the button on the end of the wiper stalk whose existence I had clean forgotten and which accesses the trip computer.
This told me the Fiat's average is 40.1mpg. No idea however over what period that is.
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Economy 4
Dec 1, 2020 22:21:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Alex on Dec 1, 2020 22:21:55 GMT
On the topic of economy, last night driving home from the supermarket in the Fiat, whilst fumbling for the wipers, I accidently pressed the button on the end of the wiper stalk whose existence I had clean forgotten and which accesses the trip computer. This told me the Fiat's average is 40.1mpg. No idea however over what period that is. Is the range readout on your 500 as erratic as my wifes Panda? I had to run it down to the shop the other day and it started out with 177miles range and by the time I'd driven the couple of miles to the shop it had dropped to 130. I started up after getting the milk and it showed 160!
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 1, 2020 22:41:03 GMT
Not sure our 500 has a range readout that I've noticed.
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Post by johnc on Dec 2, 2020 7:37:27 GMT
Is the range readout on your 500 as erratic as my wifes Panda? I had to run it down to the shop the other day and it started out with 177miles range and by the time I'd driven the couple of miles to the shop it had dropped to 130. I started up after getting the milk and it showed 160! That's because the range is based on the driving over the last few miles only. Cold start and a few stops on the way to the shop and it reckons it will only do 130 miles under those conditions. Warmed up a bit after leaving the shop and it's feeling a bit better about distance. Many cars base their expected range on this kind of calculation.
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Post by johnc on Dec 2, 2020 7:45:46 GMT
My car was showing 22.9mpg average over the past 8000 miles but after its recall last week and the software update which scrubbed all the history of everything I am down at 19.5mpg with the cold morning starts and no longer runs due to lockdown.
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Economy 4
Dec 2, 2020 21:26:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by Alex on Dec 2, 2020 21:26:56 GMT
Is the range readout on your 500 as erratic as my wifes Panda? I had to run it down to the shop the other day and it started out with 177miles range and by the time I'd driven the couple of miles to the shop it had dropped to 130. I started up after getting the milk and it showed 160! That's because the range is based on the driving over the last few miles only. Cold start and a few stops on the way to the shop and it reckons it will only do 130 miles under those conditions. Warmed up a bit after leaving the shop and it's feeling a bit better about distance. Many cars base their expected range on this kind of calculation. That is exactly how it works but I've never driven a car in which the range flips about so much.
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Post by Tim on Dec 3, 2020 9:07:44 GMT
That's because the range is based on the driving over the last few miles only. Cold start and a few stops on the way to the shop and it reckons it will only do 130 miles under those conditions. Warmed up a bit after leaving the shop and it's feeling a bit better about distance. Many cars base their expected range on this kind of calculation. That is exactly how it works but I've never driven a car in which the range flips about so much. You should try an E39 M5:- Park car overnight on drive facing uphill. Start up and a quarter tank shows a range of about 80 miles. Start off along street (uphill again), range drops to 45 miles. Reach end of street and wait to pull out onto main road, range is now showing 35 miles Drive first part of main road (uphill again) and by the time you've covered the first quarter mile range now in the low 20s. Reach flat part of road and range starts to increase again. Drive remainder of road to local town (all downhill, approx 1.5 miles), range is now 90. Suffer the usual severe distrust of the petrol gauge and head straight for petrol station.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 14, 2021 21:07:19 GMT
The new job isn't doing my fuel economy any good..... From getting just under 50mpg commuting 20 miles each way largely on the M3, the Fiesta is now struggling to crack 35mpg on the approx 3 miles each way drive to and from work. I can at least console myself with the fact that a week's commuting costs about the same as a day's commute previously did, but I'm not sure that these short trips are good for the engine. I'll be interested to see what consumption I get out of the Kuga on the new commute, and the bike seems a realistic option in the summer on dry days
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 15, 2021 16:10:02 GMT
The new job isn't doing my fuel economy any good..... From getting just under 50mpg commuting 20 miles each way largely on the M3, the Fiesta is now struggling to crack 35mpg on the approx 3 miles each way drive to and from work. I can at least console myself with the fact that a week's commuting costs about the same as a day's commute previously did, but I'm not sure that these short trips are good for the engine. I'll be interested to see what consumption I get out of the Kuga on the new commute, and the bike seems a realistic option in the summer on dry days Good to see you've found that cloud in the silver lining of the better paid job, Chris! If it's only 3 miles I'd walk, or as you say, cycle. It would do me the world of good and is cheaper than a gym.
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Post by Martin on Apr 16, 2021 12:53:43 GMT
I went to Northampton earlier to get my first jab and was listening to a call on the way back, so just pottered along the dual carriageway at about 65mph. Apparently that was a new efficiency record, which is pretty good considering the first few miles were roundabouts/traffic lights and normally I'm doing well to get 30mpg plus when I've looked before (as you have to look at this trip screen to get the mileage since a fuel stop) I've not seen my acceleration score better than 3.5 out of 5. Must have been a good tailwind!
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Post by Martin on May 18, 2021 19:51:16 GMT
Smashed the previous 36.6mpg record today, wasn’t really trying, just pottering along at 70mph enjoying the sunshine thinking/planning the day. Economy seems to be much better now it’s warmed up a bit, the journey home tonight was 139 miles and it took 2hr 8min, so not much under a 70mph average door to door and it did 35.0mpg.
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Post by johnc on May 19, 2021 7:09:20 GMT
Martin, in your post, the screen in the car shows the accelerator at 4.6, what looks like a speedo and a symbol for the brake. What are these. The i-Pace has started to show these on the dash after a recent software update and I can't work out what they are trying to tell us.
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Post by Martin on May 19, 2021 7:31:25 GMT
Martin, in your post, the screen in the car shows the accelerator at 4.6, what looks like a speedo and a symbol for the brake. What are these. The i-Pace has started to show these on the dash after a recent software update and I can't work out what they are trying to tell us. It's the efficiency score (acceleration / speed / braking), with 5 being the best, although I'm sure we'd all agree that 5 is the worst....so apologies for my behaviour! The 92% is an overall efficiency score and it's all far more suited to the iPace.
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Post by Blarno on May 19, 2021 9:06:13 GMT
6 weeks into ownership of the 330d and the OBC is reporting 36.2mpg average, which is not only better than the 320d ever managed, it's downright brilliant for a big lunged 6 pot that spends most of its time with a bike strapped to the roof.
Unlike the 320, the OBC is accurate as well. I'm getting around 450 miles before the light comes on.
Happy days.
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