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Post by racingteatray on Oct 15, 2024 16:02:46 GMT
What does Motorway value your car at? Close to the dealers? £66k or thereabouts on a first nudge, without pressing on to invite bids. |
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 15, 2024 16:07:08 GMT
I also can't help feeling this may be related to the lack of cheap credit, which won't be changing any time soon. How Racing buys cars, is not how most of these are shifted..... People were buying high end 911's on credit without proper controls, as the values were going up. Now credit is a lot more, and I rather suspect affordability is being checked out more.... To be clear I have bought all my recent cars on credit other than the Mini, which I paid cash for. I also bought the Macan on credit to buy myself time, but since the APR was a lot higher than before, I paid it off asap. I am a debt finance specialist so I understand the value of leverage. Very happy to borrow money at cheap rates. Not happy if it costs me more than I can earn from investing it. |
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Post by alf on Oct 16, 2024 9:04:18 GMT
Indeed - I thought you pretty much bought them cash, or paid ot off fast! I suspect most people's approach is to buy what they can just about afford the monthlies on, with no likelihood of paying then off early, which is not a great idea. I used to save and buy in cash, but cars are way too much for that now, and I use loans that allow you to pay them off in chunks early with no penalty...
Like you I'm gaining in the short term from having a car where the new price has gone up - a lot (and with some of the expensive bits removed) since it came out. When it comes time to replace it, that will not be so great however.... New prices are insanity now.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 16, 2024 9:49:52 GMT
Indeed - I thought you pretty much bought them cash, or paid ot off fast! I suspect most people's approach is to buy what they can just about afford the monthlies on, with no likelihood of paying then off early, which is not a great idea. I used to save and buy in cash, but cars are way too much for that now, and I use loans that allow you to pay them off in chunks early with no penalty... Like you I'm gaining in the short term from having a car where the new price has gone up - a lot (and with some of the expensive bits removed) since it came out. When it comes time to replace it, that will not be so great however.... New prices are insanity now. I always bought cash until we bought the house and then I sold everything (Z1 and M5 at that point) to fund the renovations, and thus it made sense to get the M135i on the never-never. Then did the same with my wife's Fiat and the 440i, but both had big discounts and low APR. We cash paid the balloon on both cars at the end of their respective PCPs and then kept them - in the end I had the 440i for 6yrs, and the Fiat hits its 11th birthday at the end of this month. I put a hefty deposit (£25k) down on the Macan and then cleared the balance in two chunks over the course of the first year. |
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Post by Martin on Oct 16, 2024 11:57:46 GMT
It all depends on your circumstances, priorities and what other options you have to get a return on your cash.
The only car I’ve financed is the 535d as I was coming out of a company car at fairly short notice, saving for a house deposit and the interest rate wasn’t too horrendous. Since then it has been the more costly option and I can’t see that changing, although I did have a PCP on the Golf for a few days to take advantage of the extra discount. If / when I get a weekend toy, it’s likely to be cash as well. I’m getting decent returns on investments and max out on my ISA allowance each year, but I’ve got as much as I’m comfortable (for now) in investments and anything over that is only returning c2.5% after the tax man takes his share so it makes sense to use cash.
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Dilemma
Oct 16, 2024 13:01:25 GMT
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bryan likes this
Post by Roadrunner on Oct 16, 2024 13:01:25 GMT
I haven't used finance to buy a car since the Jaguar in 2003. I know I could have something newer and 'better', but the Benz had only 17,500 miles on the clock when I bought it and still smelled new inside, so why go into debt just to get a different number on the registration plate?
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Post by Boxer6 on Oct 16, 2024 15:13:25 GMT
I haven't used finance to buy a car since the Jaguar in 2003. I know I could have something newer and 'better', but the Benz had only 17,500 miles on the clock when I bought it and still smelled new inside, so why go into debt just to get a different number on the registration plate? Git plates are the obvious answer to that!  For non-spotters anyway - very few people have any clue about how old my car is likely to be, erring very much on the younger side of guesswork if asked. |
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Dilemma
Oct 16, 2024 15:14:13 GMT
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Post by LandieMark on Oct 16, 2024 15:14:13 GMT
The Range Rover is on a cheap personal loan and the caravan is on a much more expensive HP, but I've just paid a chunk off that and will pay another chunk off in spring.
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Dilemma
Oct 16, 2024 15:29:39 GMT
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 16, 2024 15:29:39 GMT
I bought the Gorilla cash and when I sold it only used a percentage of the cash for a deposit on Eva. I am, however, a terrible spender and I can’t really pinpoint what I spent the rest on! New dressing room and walk in wardrobe for W2.1 springs to mind.
I am now in a different financial position than I was when I bought Eva but at 2.9% I am in no hurry to pay it off early. Next September I shall but probably finance 50% of the balance. Retirement planning is probably bigger than cars for the foreseeable future.
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Post by johnc on Oct 17, 2024 8:36:20 GMT
Retirement planning is probably bigger than cars for the foreseeable future. For me too but I have a savings account that gets paid into every month which is called "John's new car" With what I could get for the M5 and the balance in the account I am just about at the level that would allow a Cayman/Boxster in the price bracket Racing is looking at but I seem to have come over all sensible and am feeling I would rather have the cash in the bank at the moment. |
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Post by Martin on Oct 17, 2024 8:54:21 GMT
Isn't buying a sports car an essential part of retirement planning? I'm going to be incredibly disappointed if retired Jeff isn't cruising through France in a Ferrari.... All this sensible thinking is making me question my sketchy plans. Please stop!  |
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Post by alf on Oct 17, 2024 10:47:31 GMT
Isn't buying a sports car an essential part of retirement planning? I'm going to be incredibly disappointed if retired Jeff isn't cruising through France in a Ferrari.... All this sensible thinking is making me question my sketchy plans. Please stop! A Ferrari is never sensible. However if this makes you feel better (and it should as you clearly earn multiples of what I do): If I get an inheritence of any size (I'm talking enough to cover the purchase, there is no prospect of a massive one) I WILL be getting something daft from the sensible end of a Boxster 4.0 up to the (heart wants it) end of a Ferrari 360 or 430...... Just not alongside a Quad! And it will be driven plenty as well. |
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Post by johnc on Oct 17, 2024 11:10:19 GMT
Isn't buying a sports car an essential part of retirement planning? I'm going to be incredibly disappointed if retired Jeff isn't cruising through France in a Ferrari.... All this sensible thinking is making me question my sketchy plans. Please stop! Martin, unfortunately at a certain age you start look ahead and worry about how you are going to maintain a certain standard of living. In my case no-one but me puts money in my pension and since that started to spook me, my pension is where I have put every penny I can. Your employer will most likely take care of a lot of your pension worries and you probably also have a few years yet before the realisation that the State pension is way closer than you ever thought possible. Until you reach that point you can remain completely guilt free to do as you want and spend what you want on whatever makes you happy. That's life! One of the biggest problems I have with clients is getting them to divest themselves of some of their wealth as they get older but before it is too late and there are only a few years till death's door. As people get older they have a real problem giving wealth away because they somehow think they might need it for an emergency and no-one else is going to look after them. Unfortunately this often means they die with high 6 or 7 figures in a bank account, plus a house and other assets and their estate has to cough up the IHT. I am hoping that changes in the budget might help me concentrate their minds a bit better on these things. |
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Post by Tim on Oct 17, 2024 12:40:17 GMT
Isn't buying a sports car an essential part of retirement planning? I'm going to be incredibly disappointed if retired Jeff isn't cruising through France in a Ferrari.... All this sensible thinking is making me question my sketchy plans. Please stop! Just to make you feel better Martin I have just sold my mum's house and (assuming all goes through ok) will be getting a reasonable amount of money in the next few weeks. I could pay my mortgage off or stick it in my pension or become a client of the financial services firm I work for. But I'm not going to do any of those things. My current plan is to pay off the balance due on the Toyota, overpay the mortgage up to the maximum allowed for no penalty (10%?), get the M5 sorted, get the Fiat resurrected (or if its not worthwhile then buy another one), possibly replace the 430 with something (M4, 440i, 340i Touring, who knows). Of course Autotrader is a constant draw as well. I want another 370Z and Mrs Tim made some comment in front of friends about 'when we get another one' so I have witnessed approval for that. So sketchy is ok On the flip side various conversations with friends now sometimes end up on the subject of pensions and a few of them are in the enviable position of having a decent one - a life working for the local council or HMRC can be pretty good even if you're not the CEO as even admin folk were apparently enrolled in final salary schemes 30 years ago and even when those were closed they still received employer contributions of high teens %. So  seems appropriate here! |
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Post by Martin on Oct 17, 2024 15:33:49 GMT
I love the sound of your plans Tim!
Just to be clear, my comments were intended to be light hearted and not a criticism of anyone, but pleased to hear there are plans (sketchy or otherwise) to keep enjoying cars!
I have started to look ahead and think more about saving for the future, I’ve always put the most I can into my pension and both employer / employee contributions made quite a step up three years ago, but that was just before I hit 50 so not really long enough to go to make a material difference. I’ve been using my ISA allowance fully for the last few years and haven’t sold vested LTIPs in the last 2 years as I think the share price is under valued. I’m not banking on any inheritance, I’ve always told my parents to enjoy it while they can (not that they need encouragement) and as they are doing a good job. They are in the second half of their 70s and still love travelling, they are currently away in Australia/ New Zealand for a couple of months and doing it in some style.
I do need to get a financial adviser as maybe I’m missing something.
It’s impossible to know what the right balance should be as there are so many unknowns, so for now mine is tilted towards enjoying life while I can.
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Dilemma
Oct 17, 2024 17:36:16 GMT
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Post by bryan on Oct 17, 2024 17:36:16 GMT
I paid for the 440i out of an ISA (that I'll replenish with the S4 sale providing it doesn't go on house projects!) and have half the UP on an interest free credit card due to end next May, the rest are owned outright. Remaining itch is an L322
I suspect the next few years may result in an inheritance (never know with end of life care) which could result in an upgrade here or there, but happy with what I've got so mortgage pay off etc likely (or a swimming pool!!)
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Dilemma
Oct 17, 2024 17:44:38 GMT
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Post by bryan on Oct 17, 2024 17:44:38 GMT
Isn't buying a sports car an essential part of retirement planning? I'm going to be incredibly disappointed if retired Jeff isn't cruising through France in a Ferrari.... All this sensible thinking is making me question my sketchy plans. Please stop! Just to make you feel better Martin I have just sold my mum's house and (assuming all goes through ok) will be getting a reasonable amount of money in the next few weeks. I could pay my mortgage off or stick it in my pension or become a client of the financial services firm I work for. But I'm not going to do any of those things. My current plan is to pay off the balance due on the Toyota, overpay the mortgage up to the maximum allowed for no penalty (10%?), get the M5 sorted, get the Fiat resurrected (or if its not worthwhile then buy another one), possibly replace the 430 with something (M4, 440i, 340i Touring, who knows). Of course Autotrader is a constant draw as well. I want another 370Z and Mrs Tim made some comment in front of friends about 'when we get another one' so I have witnessed approval for that. So sketchy is ok On the flip side various conversations with friends now sometimes end up on the subject of pensions and a few of them are in the enviable position of having a decent one - a life working for the local council or HMRC can be pretty good even if you're not the CEO as even admin folk were apparently enrolled in final salary schemes 30 years ago and even when those were closed they still received employer contributions of high teens %. So seems appropriate here! Depending on who your mortgage is with the 10% overpayment a year varies with providers. Most (I assumed all) are 10% of the remaining balance but Nationwide are 10% of the original mortgage amount. Which could make a positive difference when we are in the position to overpayment lump sums. I like your car upgrade plans, look forward to seeing the updates Random question does your 430i have the non digital 6WA dash? In which case would you mind sending some pics of it switched on /in operation please. I'm thinking of downgrading my digital 6wb dash |
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Post by Tim on Oct 18, 2024 9:03:25 GMT
Just to make you feel better Martin I have just sold my mum's house and (assuming all goes through ok) will be getting a reasonable amount of money in the next few weeks. I could pay my mortgage off or stick it in my pension or become a client of the financial services firm I work for. But I'm not going to do any of those things. My current plan is to pay off the balance due on the Toyota, overpay the mortgage up to the maximum allowed for no penalty (10%?), get the M5 sorted, get the Fiat resurrected (or if its not worthwhile then buy another one), possibly replace the 430 with something (M4, 440i, 340i Touring, who knows). Of course Autotrader is a constant draw as well. I want another 370Z and Mrs Tim made some comment in front of friends about 'when we get another one' so I have witnessed approval for that. So sketchy is ok On the flip side various conversations with friends now sometimes end up on the subject of pensions and a few of them are in the enviable position of having a decent one - a life working for the local council or HMRC can be pretty good even if you're not the CEO as even admin folk were apparently enrolled in final salary schemes 30 years ago and even when those were closed they still received employer contributions of high teens %. So seems appropriate here! Depending on who your mortgage is with the 10% overpayment a year varies with providers. Most (I assumed all) are 10% of the remaining balance but Nationwide are 10% of the original mortgage amount. Which could make a positive difference when we are in the position to overpayment lump sums. I like your car upgrade plans, look forward to seeing the updates Random question does your 430i have the non digital 6WA dash? In which case would you mind sending some pics of it switched on /in operation please. I'm thinking of downgrading my digital 6wb dash Mortgage is with HSBC and on a lower rate than I can get for savings but I like the idea of paying some off, keeping the monthlies the same and clearing it quicker. I haven't looked at what I'm allowed for overpayments yet though. Car plans change with the wind to be honest and I like to make life difficult for myself e.g. 370 would need to be silver for Mrs Tim and a Nismo for me so try finding a silver Nismo!!. I think 6WA is the standard dash isn't it? The 430 has the digital dash so, for example, when you select Sport mode it goes red and a bit crap. I just shift the gear selector across to Sport/Manual if I want Sport mode and it keeps the standard 'Classic' BMW display. |
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Post by alf on Oct 18, 2024 16:50:43 GMT
Random question does your 430i have the non digital 6WA dash? In which case would you mind sending some pics of it switched on /in operation please. I'm thinking of downgrading my digital 6wb dash Not loving the dash then? When I was looking at 440i GC I decided it was better than the normal one in theory - in practice until I'd driven Tina's a long way on the trip to the Centerparcs on the Dutch/German border it just gave me a headache, especially with all the hybrid gubbins it is so confusing.... |
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Post by Martin on Oct 18, 2024 18:00:48 GMT
Assume the 330e has the awful full digital mess? I think the 6WB is the one I had in the 750, so digital but still proper dials, perhaps not quite as nice as the one in the 535, but I still liked it and if you don’t have HUD it’s better for navigation.
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Post by PG on Oct 19, 2024 6:51:53 GMT
The last car we bought on finance was the Shogun - 50% down and 50% on interest free credit. For those starting to feel all sensible over retirement, and as somebody who had self provided pensions, let me speak to you from "the other side". A few things have struck me about retirement now I live it (ignoring the farm as that's not a huge source of income sadly): The day you retire is the day that you are probably wealthiest in your life - you'll have paid off the mortgage; big lumps of cash in pensions and / or investments. Now you're going to start running those balances down. So the change from saver to spender is quite a culture shock. Plus your expenses don't seem to go down as much as you think they will! When you're the age of your cash hoarding clients John, you might see it from their perspective. You're running down your cash, but you don't know when you'll stop needing it. Also, if you have a wife / partner, you start to worry that whoever goes first the one left needs to be financially secure and not have to worry financially. Plus the government simply cannot be relied upon to care for you. Two people each a couple of years in a home with nursing needed - that could be £400k!! Yep, we hoard our cash! My retirement plans featured at least one Jaaag sports car. Didn't happen - I'm going to say "yet" to keep positive.... Covid hitting financial returns; a couple of years of 10% inflation; blah blah. But we live in hope ad expectation. It's what makes us human after all. I'm not trying to scare you all, but I'm saying that getting sensible about retirement is highly to be recommended. We were, but I think we could have done with being even more sensible.  |
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Post by Martin on Oct 19, 2024 6:58:47 GMT
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Post by PG on Oct 19, 2024 7:03:49 GMT
Why are the photos of a LHD one?
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Post by Martin on Oct 19, 2024 7:05:28 GMT
Why are the photos of a LHD one? Because they aren’t photos…. Just renderings from the configurator. |
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Post by PG on Oct 19, 2024 7:13:04 GMT
Why are the photos of a LHD one? Because they aren’t photos…. Just renderings from the configurator. Ah OK. But to be a bit mischievous, I mean, for £70k can't they be arsed to get their camera out? I know that dealers sometime advertise cars before they are fully prepared, but they usually put that in the advert, like "photos to follow"? |
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Post by Martin on Oct 19, 2024 7:19:54 GMT
Because they aren’t photos…. Just renderings from the configurator. Ah OK. But to be a bit mischievous, I mean, for £70k can't they be arsed to get their camera out? I know that dealers sometime advertise cars before they are fully prepared, but they usually put that in the advert, like "photos to follow"? It’s pretty normal for the dealers to use configurator images when the adverts first go live (it’s not even on Autotrader yet), pictures will follow in the next couple of days. If it hasn’t sold! |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 19, 2024 7:49:34 GMT
Why are they using LHD photos to advertise it? Do they not have any photos of the actual car they are selling? |
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Post by Martin on Oct 19, 2024 7:52:32 GMT
I’ve got a strange sense of Deja vu! You’ll have to call the dealer and ask! |
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Dilemma
Oct 19, 2024 7:55:13 GMT
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Post by Andy C on Oct 19, 2024 7:55:13 GMT
It’s pretty common to just use generic computer photos when a car is so new to the market
Porsche used photos are always decent quality so I’m guessing they take a bit of time
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Post by Andy C on Oct 19, 2024 7:58:54 GMT
Anyway , great find Martin… buy it Jonny!
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For non-spotters anyway - very few people have any clue about how old my car is likely to be, erring very much on the younger side of guesswork if asked. 
seems appropriate here!
