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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 12:15:05 GMT
I booked a double test drive on Saturday, the Macan GTS followed by a Panamera. The only hybrid I've driven before was a colleagues early 530e and it was OK, but I didn't like the transition between electric-petrol and decided a hybrid wasn't ever going to be for me. But I do really like the Panamera and the sales guy said he'd not driven one for a few years, but had one overnight and it really surprised him so I should give it a go. First impressions were really positive. The driving position makes it feel like a sports car and the layout/finish/materials are a step above the Macan I'd just stepped out of and also better than the 911 I'd been looking at when I arrived. More space inside as well, but not quite as much as you'd expect from something that's over 5m long. It feels really modern too, without having yet succumbed to a table on the dash or removal of climate control switches etc Pulling away in electric is a very strange feeling, but in a good way and it actually picks up pretty well. The electric motor has 136hp, but more importantly 400nm of torque and can run all the way up to 87mph. You really don't notice when the proper engine kicks in on part throttle and the same when it goes back to electric, it felt a little strange at first lifting off the throttle when approaching a roundabout and it going back to electric, but still feeling the gearbox changing down. Refinement was excellent, very close to mine in terms of noise but the low speed ride over crap roads was actually a touch better, mine can feel like it's fidgeting a bit sometimes. Stop messing around in E or E-Hybrid mode and move into Sport and it felt like a completely different car, not just the noise (it had the sports exhaust fitted, a must based on watching Harry M's review of one without) it made but the way it feels when you're starting to push on. I've not driven a car with such different personalities, comfortable/luxurious one minute and sports car the next. You can't feel the electric motor boosting low down torque, but it was noticeable after driving the Macan as the performance felt more 'effortless' and there was a touch of hesitation very low down in the Macan which wasn't there and I think it might boost it at higher revs too as there was a bit more enthusiasm towards the red line. The stats say there isn't anything in it flat out between them, but the Panamera did feel a bit quicker, maybe it's the lower driving position. Really surprisingly as it's heavier , but I found it more fun to drive with nicer steering and a more nimble feel plus it deals with a bumpy B Road much better. More weight low down, longer wheelbase, rear wheel steering, all of the above....I don't know. The width is almost exactly the same, so it didn't feel any bigger on the road either, not until it's time to park anyway as it is longer. It had a nice spec, with rear wheel steering, HUD, Innodrive, Surround View etc. It was interesting to compare Bose with Burmester from the Macan, there's a big difference and it didn't sound as good as the Meridian system, but wasn't bad. With is being a 2022 Panamera, it had the latest PCM 6 infotainment, which is excellent and I like the fact that they have retained the small dial so you can move around the options on the screen without touching it plus it has shortcut buttons. I did exactly the same 50 mile route and drive it the same way at the Macan and it averaged 38.5mpg vs 23.5. However, we all know that's a nonsense as it used electricity as well, adjust that (rough calculation) and I think it was more like 26mpg. It would be interesting so see what it does on a longer run, driven more normally than you do on a test drive. I really can't think of anything I didn't like about it other than the cost (bit use a Macan GTS as the benchmark and it feels worth it!) and a whole lot that I loved. I'm not criticising the Macan at all, it is a really good car and I liked it a lot, but it's not as well suited to what I want as the Panamera. It's not off the list though, as we're still considering replacing the Golf as well. I know the looks aren't to everyones taste, but I think it looks great and I also know the estate is preferred by most, but I had a proper look at them side by side and the estate looks a bit heavy at the back in comparison. There isn't any difference in boot capacity, the estate has a lower loading lip and a fraction more height above the load cover, but underneath the cover they are the same. If the Hatch has 4+1 seating, then you get the same 40/20/40 split folding rear seats, so no difference there either. I do like both though and would struggle to decide if I was ordering new (estate has better residuals), but if buying used then the difference in spec would be more of a sway one way or the other. The colour of the one I drove was Amethyst, which I quite liked, but Lindsay didn't....it wasn't quite as 'old man red' as the Cherry Red estate apparently, but not far off...
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 5, 2023 12:24:04 GMT
I really like that colour. Still trying to get my head around the whole hybrid real world mpg costs including electric, but I can see how it would massively benefit you if you were to run it as a company car.
Have you considered a T-Cross?
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 12:32:02 GMT
I really like that colour. Still trying to get my head around the whole hybrid real world mpg costs including electric, but I can see how it would massively benefit you if you were to run it as a company car. Have you considered a T-Cross? Of course, but I've decided it's terrible value for money spending £20k for something that I wouldn't really use.... Based on the numbers I saw, which was only over 50 miles of A/B road and dual carriageway and assuming £1.50 for petrol and 30p/kwh for electric then I think it roughly works out at 20p per mile. That would be a bit better with a bit less hooning and if you can get free electricity at work then it will come down a bit further. In comparison, my car is 23-24p and the Golf is 19-20p. So if you're not running one as a company car, there isn't much financial benefit at all, it's a drop in the ocean compared to depreciation. But there is a benefit in refinement and in this example anyway, it did feel like the motor is there to enhance performance as much as anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2023 12:39:32 GMT
Not bad for the style but, close to the squatting Chrysler from some angles. Never got tarnished by the same moniker but then again its a Porker. If you always look over your shoulder when you walk away, it's more than liveable.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jun 5, 2023 13:20:33 GMT
Looks like the perfect choice for you. I do like that colour as well.
I do prefer the estate version, but the hatch is still a very fine thing to behold.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 5, 2023 13:55:32 GMT
Very nice cars in the right spec. A slightly used on I guess makes more sense then a new one. Deffo you should get the estate.
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Eco-Hatch
Jun 5, 2023 14:00:33 GMT
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Post by Andy C on Jun 5, 2023 14:00:33 GMT
Estate all the way . Looks so much better
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 14:06:31 GMT
It looks like I'm alone in preferring the hatchback.....but on this occasion, it only matters what I think Actually, I'm not alone. Lindsay doesn't understand why I was seriously considering the estate as she thought it looked really heavy around the rear and my middle son who came with us on Saturday felt the same. Incoming long post alert......
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 14:52:56 GMT
I won’t say I’ve been super decisive, as I’ve been mulling over what to do this year with replacing the Range Rover and potentially the Golf as well for some time, but once I’m clear in my head as to the options and go and have a serious look, I do make a fairly quick decision.
It won’t come as a surprise to learn that I’ve bought a Panamera. Not the one I test drove, as the usual thing happened and I managed to convince myself that spending more was a good idea and I’ve bought a similar one, just 6 months newer / half the age and with a spec that’s very close to what I would have chosen if ordering a new one. It was only 10% more…..
I’ve traded my car in, not the most amazing trade in but i wasn’t too offended either which was a nice surprise. I gave them a cost to change which they got down to before I walked and they included full Gtechniq 5 year guaranteed Ceramic Coating (inc wheels/glass/interior), which I expected to pay for on top.
It’s Volcano grey, which probably wouldn’t have been my first choice, but it looks great out in the sunshine, highlights the curves nicely and we don’t need another Gentian Blue car on the forum. Its full title is….Panamera 4-E Hybrid Platinum Edition.
Platinum edition means about £16k worth of options for £8k additional cost, which in addition to things not always standard on a Porsche (Air Suspension, Sports Chrono etc), includes a few items painted in Platinum plus:
Metallic Paint Window Trims in Black Gloss Panoramic Roof Power Steering Plus 21-inch Exclusive Design sport wheels painted in Satin Platinum Wheel Centres with full colour Porsche crest LED Matrix Headlights Exclusive Design Taillights Additional Ambient Lighting Privacy Glass Lane Keep Assist inc Traffic Sign Recognition Keyless Entry Lane Change Assist Soft Close Doors Rear Seat Heating Comfort Seats (14 way) with driver and passenger memory Electric Steering Column Porsche Crest on Headrests (Front &Rear) Interior Trim in Black Brushed Aluminium Door sill guards in Black Brushed Aluminium Smartphone compartment with Wireless Charging Bose Surround System USB-C charge ports in rear compartment
That’s quite the list, but does include a number of things that still surprises me are extra cost options.
The one I’ve bought has another £27k of options on top of the Platinum spec, some of which I definitely wouldn’t choose, such as the Carbon Sport Design Pack with Carbon Sideblades…a snip at £6k! I wouldn’t want one without the Sport Design Pack though, ideally painted in high gloss black, which would be £3.1k and closes the gap a bit, but nearly £3k for a few Carbon bits is crazy and thankfully they aren’t too obvious on a grey car. One option I do like but would probably struggle to justify spending £800 for, is replacing the sport chrono stopwatch with the Porsche Design Clock…it’s a lovely thing, metal face and hands and I guess it's less than the £4,350 they want for the watch that looks the same.
In summary, it hasn’t got quite as much FG as my current car, but it does have everything on both my ‘essential’ list (eg Voodoo lights, Surround Cameras, memory seats) and also covers off everything from my ‘really want’ list such as a really good stereo, HUD, ventilated seats, 4 zone climate etc.
Extra spec in detail:
Wheels painted in Jet Black Metallic Full leather interior Adaptive Sports Seats (18 way) with driver and passenger memory 4+1 Seats Sport Design Package in Carbon Air Outlet trims in Carbon Exterior Mirrors painted in Exterior Colour Porsche Logo painted in black (high gloss) Exclusive Design Fuel Filler Cap Sport Chrono with Porsche Design Subsecond Clock Sports Exhaust in Black Rear Axle Steering inc Power Steering Plus Deletion of Acid Green finish on Brake Callipers Head Up Display Park Assist inc Surround View Porsche Innodrive inc Adaptive Cruise Control Ambient Lighting with rear compartment lighting package Seat Ventilation (front) Heated Sports Steering Wheel Four Zone Climate Control Dashboard trim package leather Burmester 3D High-End Surround Sound System
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 14:56:43 GMT
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 5, 2023 15:13:52 GMT
I think you made the right choice going for the saloon and Volcano Grey is a great colour too; my sister has it on her new Macan and it does come alive in sunlight. Congratulations (just remember it won’t have the wading depth of the RR!).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2023 15:28:00 GMT
Looks like a good deal was done, brilliant.
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 5, 2023 16:01:06 GMT
As I looked at the Estate before I bought Eva it’s unsurprising that I am in full agreement with your purchase.
Great spec. Re: the electric running on PHEVs: don’t forget it makes more electricity as you drive so you have to count those tanks with no plug-in charging as mpg -only tanks.
E.G.: on a tank where I’ve started with a charge with a plug-in charge I can allocate the charge price to equivalent mpg using price. This is false however as the ICE has made more electricity in the meantime but it gives me a number to allocate to price paid.
On a journey where I’ve had no plug-in charging (generally crossing Europe or recently a short break to Devon) the car still tells me it has done x-miles fully electric. This is clearly infinite mpg by my calculation above so I allocate 0.001 kWh of paid charge to get huge mpg numbers. For those tanks if I use the total miles travelled I get a mpg figure that’s better than if I deduct the electric running (10-20%better) but of course it’s all petrol mpg because the ICE has powered all travel.
Interestingly my average mpg on electricity is 93.321mpg when using KWh price as a calculator. My petrol only mpg is 29.28 and my combined is 35.313mpg. Bear in mind almost all my long journeys are 4-up fully loaded and I don’t consciously drive efficiently. Also be assured the LCI 530e drivetrain is imperceptible at electro-ICE change over.
All that said I’m planning on trying a full month on electric-from-wall-charge-only some time to see the cost compared to petrol. Just need to check the calendars to see when is best to do it (ie all local journeys only)
Anyway, welcome to PHEV-world. As you can probably judge from above, the only advantages of a PHEV are silent running in town and a sense of piety.
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Post by Andy C on Jun 5, 2023 16:40:29 GMT
Cracking spec Martin, and a great colour.
I didn't think a Panamera would be big enough but presuming your oldest kids now rarely go in your car ?
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Post by Tim on Jun 5, 2023 16:53:30 GMT
Wow, that's a decision! Looks nice - for a Panamera - and I like the clock. That car has a lot of extra FG on it. Is it a 3 litre V6 then, I can't keep up with Porsche engines.
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 5, 2023 16:55:23 GMT
Cracking spec Martin, and a great colour. I didn't think a Panamera would be big enough but presuming your oldest kids now rarely go in your car ? Cabin in a Panamera is more spacious than the 5er and my three boys fit that easily.
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 17:37:45 GMT
Cracking spec Martin, and a great colour. I didn't think a Panamera would be big enough but presuming your oldest kids now rarely go in your car ? Cabin in a Panamera is more spacious than the 5er and my three boys fit that easily. Yes, there’s space for 2 x 6ft+ boys in the back, but it isn’t big enough for all 3 to travel together. Not for long anyway, as the headroom in the middle seat is too tight. Andy is right though, my requirements have changed so I don’t need a big truck anymore. My eldest isn’t in the car very much at all now and hopefully he will get a reasonable test date soon and then he can drive himself.
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 17:40:25 GMT
Wow, that's a decision! Looks nice - for a Panamera - and I like the clock. That car has a lot of extra FG on it. Is it a 3 litre V6 then, I can't keep up with Porsche engines. You’re too kind Very close, it’s a 2.9 litre V6. Same engine as the Macan GTS / RS4 but in a lower state of time then boosted back up by the electric motor. The combined output is 462hp and 700nm.
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 17:47:37 GMT
……. Anyway, welcome to PHEV-world. As you can probably judge from above, the only advantages of a PHEV are silent running in town and a sense of piety. Very comprehensive! I do love an automotive related spreadsheet, but I wasn’t thinking much more than my normal mpg capture + KWH at home = pence per mile. I might have to rethink! It won’t make much difference to running costs other than me feeling a bit better, as I shouldn’t be losing out on business miles any more. I currently get 18p when it costs c24p and in the new world I will get 23p plus free electricity when I visit half of my sites and head office.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 5, 2023 17:55:03 GMT
I've always loved the Panamera. If you don't need the off-road capability. It makes perfect sense.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 5, 2023 17:59:56 GMT
Piety is getting expensive these days - it only used to cost the price of a Prius.
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 18:16:52 GMT
I've always loved the Panamera. If you don't need the off-road capability. It makes perfect sense. A grass overflow carpark at a country park is about as far off road as I go, so it should be fine! I won’t be able to drive through flooded roads with the same level of confidence, but as it has air suspension, I assume you can raise it up a bit.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jun 5, 2023 18:29:18 GMT
Excellent choice and a good spec. Well chosen.
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Eco-Hatch
Jun 5, 2023 20:25:23 GMT
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Post by cbeaks1 on Jun 5, 2023 20:25:23 GMT
Very nice, and no green brakes (or badges?) which is a real win.
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Post by Martin on Jun 5, 2023 20:54:10 GMT
Very nice, and no green brakes (or badges?) which is a real win. Green brake callipers would have had to have been sorted. It does have green on the badges, but they are the (optional of course) gloss black with green edging. Unusually I’m really torn about getting them removed or not. It’s the name of the car rather than engine designation and is central so doesn’t offend me and I’m not sure whether it looks better without the badge or not, which is rarely the case. Having a badge that makes it look like an eco / base model isn’t necessarily a bad thing either….
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Post by bryan on Jun 6, 2023 5:53:45 GMT
That's a great choice, enjoy it and the refinement of silently gliding forward in traffic etc.
We do 95% of local driving on battery power, think the record is 1500 miles on a tank of petrol...but no range anxiety on longer trips.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 6, 2023 9:43:20 GMT
You Baller Martin!
Be interesting to see how you go from the Rangie back to a "normal" car. People seem to be addicted to the high driving position once they've experienced it. Bravo, good choice and the car looks ace.
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Post by Martin on Jun 6, 2023 11:23:53 GMT
You Baller Martin! Be interesting to see how you go from the Rangie back to a "normal" car. People seem to be addicted to the high driving position once they've experienced it. Bravo, good choice and the car looks ace. It will be interesting to see how I adjust. I’m thinking it won’t be an issue as I drive the Golf regularly, but we’ll see. I’ve never really wanted an SUV or a raised driving position, but needed the rear seat space and it is a lovely thing to waft around in. The real test will be when the weather is bad.
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Post by johnc on Jun 6, 2023 14:53:43 GMT
Only just picked up on this. Well done Martin. The guy who owns our local Indian carry out (part of a larger group) has had 2 M6's, an M5, then a 911 Convertible, followed by a 911 Targa all in the space of about 4 years. He then bought a Panamera Hybrid and has had that for well over 2 years now and he says he isn't changing it: he loves it. I hope you are the same. In any case, you have talked about getting a Panamera for many years now, so it's about time. Happy driving.
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Post by Martin on Jun 7, 2023 10:57:38 GMT
Collection arranged for Saturday at 1pm It's their 75th Anniversary event so is going to be busy, but on the positive side we'll get a free lunch. I've also arranged for Lindsay to have a test drive in the Macan GTS
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