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Post by Tim on Jun 12, 2023 8:05:43 GMT
Haven't been a huge fan of these up til now, but that does look a very nice place to spend lots of time! Wishing you many happy miles of motoring in it. Same here. The dark colour really suits it. |
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Post by alf on Jun 12, 2023 8:43:54 GMT
Looks lovely Martin! Look what's on my drive as I type  :  |
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Post by johnc on Jun 12, 2023 9:29:15 GMT
Very nice Martin. I look forward to hearing how you enjoy it.
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Post by Martin on Jun 12, 2023 10:05:37 GMT
Looks lovely Martin! Look what's on my drive as I type : That's very nice, although the Arum/Gold wheels aren't for me. Against popular opinion, but extra confirmation that I made the right decision going for the hatch. |
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Post by alf on Jun 12, 2023 10:52:29 GMT
I don't like the weird green colour, or the wheels, or the ehybrid logos on the side, or the gansta glass. The body shape I am warming to, I like them both but the hatch is sportier for sure.
I do like it inside, silly clock on the dash aside. The roof glass is nice (I could take or leave it in the rear, and leave it all if its heavy). The white seat inners are nice, as are the high-backed seats with independent leg and back bolster adjusters... The packaging is not amazing, the centre console is huge and looks great but has almost no storage in it - the Jag one is huge (and full of "essential" kit).
The car is a loan car one of my school mates (who is currently ripping out our kitchen) has. We did a 24 hour running race this weekend, and he turned up in this as an old lady pulled out in front of his Polestar last weekend and this was deemed a fair replacement as soon as his insurance company worked out she had gone straight over a give-way.
Conicidence hey! Might have to fight him later for the keys, he ran 100k yesterday (3 times as far as I could be arsed in this heat) as the main person in our relay team, he's in no fit state to defend himself!
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 15, 2023 8:40:58 GMT
Congratulations Martin! Welcome to the ranks of middle-aged men compensating for something as my wife puts it…
I completely missed this, having been in Barcelona all week for a work conference.
Looks very nice. Panamera is a car I like and should be ideal for us, except that it’s just too big. I already find the Macan at the limits of what I want to be driving around in, size-wise.
The Porsche app is utterly crap.
I also got the masterclass invite. And the Silverstone driving day one, neither of which I have had time to deal with….
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 15, 2023 9:08:23 GMT
Congratulations Martin! Welcome to the ranks of middle-aged men compensating for something as my wife puts it… I completely missed this, having been in Barcelona all week for a work conference. Looks very nice. Panamera is a car I like and should be ideal for us, except that it’s just too big. I already find the Macan at the limits of what I want to be driving around in, size-wise. The Porsche app is utterly crap. I also got the masterclass invite. And the Silverstone driving day one, neither of which I have had time to deal with…. Make sure you do the Silverstone driving course, its brilliant. They will share the driving with your wife if you wish which might do something to increase her enthusiasm towards the car. |
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Post by Martin on Jun 15, 2023 11:44:14 GMT
Congratulations Martin! Welcome to the ranks of middle-aged men compensating for something as my wife puts it… I completely missed this, having been in Barcelona all week for a work conference. Looks very nice. Panamera is a car I like and should be ideal for us, except that it’s just too big. I already find the Macan at the limits of what I want to be driving around in, size-wise. The Porsche app is utterly crap. I also got the masterclass invite. And the Silverstone driving day one, neither of which I have had time to deal with…. I don’t think buying a dark grey hybrid hatchback could be considered as compensation for anything! It’s not all that different in size really, it’s much the same width, just a bit longer and the RWS compensates for that. Although not if you’re squeezing into a parallel parking space, but that’s very rare for me. I’ve done 450 miles and still have half a tank of petrol, so less visits to fuel stations which is a bonus I had t thought about. Arrived at my site in Goole this morning and got a free top up along with a nice cool car to get into. Lovely. I did a 98 mile mostly motorway trip last night, fairly low average speed as it was really busy, it took almost 2 hours. Left with 6 miles of electric range and arrived with the same. Computer says it covered 34 miles on (self generated electric) and 40.9mpg, which is real figure as I didn’t charge it. I’m finding the way the technology works really interesting…. More interestingly, you can select sport plus before starting it and get a nice cold start. |
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Post by Martin on Jun 15, 2023 20:03:27 GMT
Interesting reaction so far. Never had so many people comment on the car and I’ve only visited 3 sites so far. All really positive, ranging from ‘nice car’ to ‘that’s stunning’ and one of the HR managers said itwas “very sexy” which didn’t feel uncomfortable at all….. After colleague A made one of those comments, colleague B asked me what if bought….”a Panamera” / “what’s a Panamera”…colleague A, “He doesn’t want to say Porsche, own it Martin”. Nothing negative, not when I’m around anyway….
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Eco-Hatch
Jun 15, 2023 22:08:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by racingteatray on Jun 15, 2023 22:08:16 GMT
Congratulations Martin! Welcome to the ranks of middle-aged men compensating for something as my wife puts it… I completely missed this, having been in Barcelona all week for a work conference. Looks very nice. Panamera is a car I like and should be ideal for us, except that it’s just too big. I already find the Macan at the limits of what I want to be driving around in, size-wise. The Porsche app is utterly crap. I also got the masterclass invite. And the Silverstone driving day one, neither of which I have had time to deal with…. I don’t think buying a dark grey hybrid hatchback could be considered as compensation for anything! It’s not all that different in size really, it’s much the same width, just a bit longer and the RWS compensates for that. Although not if you’re squeezing into a parallel parking space, but that’s very rare for me. I’ve done 450 miles and still have half a tank of petrol, so less visits to fuel stations which is a bonus I had t thought about. Arrived at my site in Goole this morning and got a free top up along with a nice cool car to get into. Lovely. I did a 98 mile mostly motorway trip last night, fairly low average speed as it was really busy, it took almost 2 hours. Left with 6 miles of electric range and arrived with the same. Computer says it covered 34 miles on (self generated electric) and 40.9mpg, which is real figure as I didn’t charge it. I’m finding the way the technology works really interesting…. More interestingly, you can select sport plus before starting it and get a nice cold start. It’s over 5m in length so nearly 30 cms longer than a Macan and also longer than the garage is deep! |
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Post by Martin on Jun 16, 2023 8:41:15 GMT
I made a mistake…it’s the Golf that’s the eco hatch. No electrickery, but was helped by a fairly busy M1/M25.  |
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Post by PG on Jun 16, 2023 12:36:33 GMT
And those economy figures get to the nub of the whole"eco" issue really. I find hybrids fascinating technology and if we are to have electric cars, then they strike me as the best option, which of course is why they will be banned too from sale from 2035. In towns and for general day to day stop-start use they hit the spot, with no range anxiety. But get on a long run and a low-stressed over-engineered petrol can still beat the pants off them.
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Post by johnc on Jun 19, 2023 11:11:36 GMT
I think I would need a very long downhill piece of road to achieve those consumption figures. Either that or a dead flat, no stops, no traffic, 35/40mph saunter
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Post by alf on Jun 21, 2023 10:43:36 GMT
I watched the "Harrys Garage" reviews of this and the Taycan last night, he seems very fond of the Panamera doesn't he? And reasonably so of the Taycan, which I had not realised was smaller (between 3 and 5 series as he put it - I assume the Panamera is at least 5 series Touring!). My mate is getting MPG like this, on his trip to work and back (he goes there for a few days then home, so perfect for this use as its always charged). I think he's too invested in the whole MPG thing but its impressive! Harry suggested the lower power V6 like this one would be better for real world MPG than the "S", I disagree as usually with modern turbos, the same engine with more boost available is no less economical when driven normally, only when you use the power. Which on a busy M25 you would not....  |
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Post by Tim on Jun 21, 2023 13:24:32 GMT
I think Harry might mean internal space because there's no way a Taycan is anywhere near the size of a 3 series?
Panamera's external dimensions look like they'd equal a 7 series (I'm too lazy to Google the figures)
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Post by Martin on Jun 21, 2023 13:49:19 GMT
Yes, Panamera is closer to a 7 series. Pretty much the same width but a tiny bit shorter. The Taycan is the same width as a Panamera and exactly the same length as a 5 series. I think a 3 series may be more spacious than a Taycan, the rear space is poor, I couldn’t even get in with the drivers seat set to my position. The B pillar location means getting into the drivers seat is more difficult than you’d expect.
The 68mpg posted is a nonsense of course, unless you’re getting free charging. It’s still really early days, but mine is currently showing 50.4mpg. I think the petrol engine is achieving c27-28mpg but that includes charging the battery, which obviously gives you a benefit and as it switches to electric when you lift off the throttle you don’t get the mpg benefit you’d normally have from being off the throttle in a purely petrol engined car.
Cost per mile is the only proper comparison, it’s too early really, but I think it’s 19-20p. That would be the equivalent of 35mpg based on using full fat petrol.
As I’ve said before. I’m not really bothered about the cost, but I do find the technology interesting. What I do love, is it has been 630 miles since I visited a petrol station and I’ve still got 150 miles range which will probably be closer to 200 with a bit of home charging.
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Post by chipbutty on Jun 21, 2023 14:22:59 GMT
What is the performance like in EV mode ? and how do you drive a PHEV with mechanical sympathy (i.e - stop the engine kicking in from cold and having the nuts revved off it) ?
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Post by Martin on Jun 21, 2023 15:17:01 GMT
What is the performance like in EV mode ? and how do you drive a PHEV with mechanical sympathy (i.e - stop the engine kicking in from cold and having the nuts revved off it) ? It’s only got 136hp, but 400 torks which helps. There’s enough to easily keep up with accelerating traffic, even accelerating away from roundabouts on dual carriageways. The mechanical sympathy question is an interesting one. I’ve set the configurable display to show oil temp (amongst other things) and when know I’m going to want to use more of the performance, I’ll set it to sport early / earlier in the journey to warm it up. You can see how much of the electric performance you’re using and know when the engine is going to kick in. When it does it doesn’t ‘rev the nuts off’, not unless you were daft enough to give it full throttle. Same level of daft as starting a combustion engine from cold then giving it full throttle. |
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Post by chipbutty on Jun 22, 2023 20:03:09 GMT
In EV mode is the ICE completely locked out ? The reason I ask is I recall a complaint about one PHEV (I forget the brand) where in EV mode, the engine would still kick in if you decked the throttle and because it was unexpected the engine would be way past 4k rpm before the driver backed off.
Reading the posts from new RR PHEV owners, some are claiming they have gone for months without firing up the engine because of the large range. The thought of a big six that’s been dormant for 3+ months being rudely kicked into action makes my teeth itch and I bet 90% of the owners won’t go to the trouble you do to get the engine ready for some work.
Out of interest, is there any limit on the rev range when the engine is cold ?
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Post by Martin on Jun 22, 2023 20:24:30 GMT
I’m not sure whether it fires up the engine and if it limits the revs when cold, as I haven’t tried full throttle in EV mode, might give it a try to see what happens. Maybe not the full rev range….
Even with a longer range I’d still want to use the engine regularly. Electric is great at the very start and end of a journey, but I want more performance and noise. There is only one journey (today) when I’ve kept it in electric the whole time and that was just because it was to the station and back, a 15 miles round trip.
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 22, 2023 20:38:53 GMT
Pretty sure Eva limits the revs at cold, but having mechanical sympathy I will never find out. I switch to Sport mode to make the engine wake up on almost all winter journeys and as I don’t charge at home enough it’s often 40-45% Electric running on all my short (up to 8 mile round trip) journeys.
Martin’s is a proper fast car but even ex-B5 me is pleasantly surprised when I mash the pedal to the floor in Eva.
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Post by johnc on Jun 23, 2023 7:47:39 GMT
My neighbours would love me to get a car like Martin's. Silent start up at 6.30am ish and silent return. At the moment (apparently, according to her) our next door neighbour wakes up with a jolt every morning I start the car and it gives her a huge fright - that's even after I put the exhaust in to "quiet" mode!
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Post by alf on Jun 23, 2023 10:16:20 GMT
In EV mode is the ICE completely locked out ? The reason I ask is I recall a complaint about one PHEV (I forget the brand) where in EV mode, the engine would still kick in if you decked the throttle and because it was unexpected the engine would be way past 4k rpm before the driver backed off. Reading the posts from new RR PHEV owners, some are claiming they have gone for months without firing up the engine because of the large range. The thought of a big six that’s been dormant for 3+ months being rudely kicked into action makes my teeth itch and I bet 90% of the owners won’t go to the trouble you do to get the engine ready for some work. Out of interest, is there any limit on the rev range when the engine is cold ? The engine cutting in from cold - and at a time when immediate hard revving is needed - is an interesting one. Whether modern engines/oils are any better than older ones in this area is a moot point. The fact a lot of them are turbos is not helpful, they don't like being revved hard from cold, or suddenly shut down, the rest of the engine generally well outlasts the turbo. As it was explained to me, the Panamera's electric motor drives the engine all the time, so its being turned over - potentially less efficient but also giving no noticeable lull/switch over when the ICE cuts in. This would also mean its being turned over the whole time and I imagine oil and water moving through it, it won't be truly cold. I don't know if this is unusual, the Clio self charging hybrid thing I drove was also impressive in that there was no jerkiness when the engine cut in - you just heard it and felt the extra horses. I imagine some hybrids have the engine on the wheel like BEV. # For me that's two petrol engine/electric hybrids driven and both were very well engineered, smooth, self-charged well, and added an interest to the drive as well as some full electric capability. I don't know if the self-charging outweighs the extra weight carried. It seems logical it might on trips that are not just constant speed (and few are), a lot of energy is wasted every time you decelerate otherwise. |
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Post by PG on Jun 29, 2023 12:37:01 GMT
What is the performance like in EV mode ? and how do you drive a PHEV with mechanical sympathy (i.e - stop the engine kicking in from cold and having the nuts revved off it) ? I guess we'll find out the real world answer to that in a few years time. When they're all out of manufacturer's warranty as well. A bit like the debate as to whether stop-start shortens engine life (even though it is normally unavailable until the engine is warm). |
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Post by Boxer6 on Jul 4, 2023 20:07:11 GMT
Very nice, and no green brakes (or badges?) which is a real win. Green brake callipers would have had to have been sorted. It does have green on the badges, but they are the (optional of course) gloss black with green edging. Unusually I’m really torn about getting them removed or not. It’s the name of the car rather than engine designation and is central so doesn’t offend me and I’m not sure whether it looks better without the badge or not, which is rarely the case. Having a badge that makes it look like an eco / base model isn’t necessarily a bad thing either…. Saw a rather grubby Turbo 'S' in (I think) the same colour as yours, on my way home today with green calipers .. .. nasty!  |
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Post by Martin on Jul 4, 2023 20:16:32 GMT
I’ve only seen one Panamera since I got mine, a black estate.
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Post by Martin on Aug 31, 2023 17:10:55 GMT
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Post by Martin on Sept 2, 2023 17:17:02 GMT
I'm really enjoying not having to fill up once or twice a week. With a more balanced mixture of short (20-40 mile) and longer (300+ mile) journeys, the distance it can cover on a tank is excellent. I filled it up on the way home today because it was convenient, I still had 140 miles range and that assumes petrol only running so would be 200+. That means I could have cracked the 1,000 mile barrier...maybe I should have waited. The mpg figure of 63.4 is a nonsense off course, but at a cost of 14.3p per mile over the 817 miles you would have to average 49.2mpg to get to the same figure. That's good, especially for something with the level of go it has, but its the distance between visiting petrol stations that I really appreciate. But not as much as how enjoyable / fun it is to drive  |
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Post by Roadrunner on Sept 2, 2023 19:45:28 GMT
That's a bit different to the RR!
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Eco-Hatch
Sept 3, 2023 9:13:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by racingteatray on Sept 3, 2023 9:13:16 GMT
And to my GTS, which on a run to Suffolk yesterday was showing 29.8mpg.
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