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Post by Big Blue on Dec 22, 2020 11:38:26 GMT
UK politics isn't about doing the best for the country or even the people that voted you in - it's about making money just like every other activity in the UK.
Product development? R&D? A few entrepreneurs can take that risk but when their ideas and companies are swept up into the corporate world only making money matters.
Service industry? Who can we hire for the least cost to charge as much as we can get away with whilst bilking our landlords and keeping our profits away from the tax man?
Transport sector? What's the lowest level of service / road building specification we can get away with whilst charging the most?
Other posts have pointed out the medical industry: GPs avoid ing tax; wanting additional payment for administering drugs to the patients that the NHS pays them to have registered. NHS surgeons that do the same work in private hospitals whilst shouting loudly about how funding is increasing the length of waiting lists.
This list could go on forever but the point is we all behave as the leaders show us what's acceptable. Politics is a job to earn money in the UK - nothing more.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 22, 2020 14:11:52 GMT
Shagger is back on the job then....
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Post by Tim on Dec 22, 2020 14:16:11 GMT
I don't think he ever left, merely got dropped out of the limelight!
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Post by michael on Dec 22, 2020 17:10:43 GMT
Ripped from Twitter but this is an example of what happens when you don't have a consistent baseline for testing, measuring etc.
Number of Covid-19 genomic sequences per country x1000 cases:
France: 0.925
Italy: 0.422
Spain: 2.41
Germany: 0.473
UK: 55.9
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Post by michael on Dec 22, 2020 22:48:03 GMT
Professor Nick Loman of the COVID-19 Genomics UK (COG UK) consortium, identified the new set of mutations as VUI – 202012/0. He confirmed that it is not new, as COG UK identified it in September, and there is no proof that it is more infectious. So this is not true then ? This professor from this consortium did not say the above ? Or if he did he was lying? What do the behaviourial scientists of SAGE have access to that COG UK don’t ? What COG -UK say: “N501Y and 69-70del are present in B.1.1.7, which has been growing in frequency since November 2020 and is defined by a set of 14 amino acid changes and 3 deletions. This is responsible for an increasing proportion of SARS-CoV-2 cases in the UK. Further updates on frequency are being prepared by COG-UK and Public Health Agencies. N501Y is also present in a lineage of independent origins circulating in Wales (this lineage does not have the other mutation seen in B.1.1.7).” So no, it’s not true. |
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 23, 2020 10:10:52 GMT
What you have posted does not contradict what prof Loman has said.
Being found present in an increasing proportion of cases in the UK does not mean it is more infectious by default. It just means it’s the more predominant strain.
So his comment that there is no proof it is more infectious still stands.
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Post by johnc on Dec 23, 2020 11:02:04 GMT
I hope that Hancock and his out of control comment result in him falling on his sword. It created total mayhem and was completely irresponsible.
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Post by michael on Dec 23, 2020 11:30:41 GMT
What you have posted does not contradict what prof Loman has said. Being found present in an increasing proportion of cases in the UK does not mean it is more infectious by default. It just means it’s the more predominant strain. So his comment that there is no proof it is more infectious still stands. First of all it is hardly surprising that a mutation of a virus is more infectious. That's evolution at work. But how something is more infectious can be down to genetics or it can be how those mutations react at a population level. It's the latter which seems to be the issue with this mutation.
When the country went into lockdown PHE noticed that in Kent the cases were going up. They sent out field researchers who established there was no major breach of the rules, any more than the baseline they have for this so something else was causing the greater number of infection. The new strain exhibited more infectious behaviour at population level, they're not yet sure why but it doesn't take an enormous leap of the imagination to work out what it is. It's the details of the mutation (COG data) plus the evidence from other COVID data sources (there are many, mainly population and testing data) that was presented to Gov at the end of last week which recommended bulking up the tiers.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 23, 2020 12:18:53 GMT
If this is the case – why is that despite this new variant having been observed to be present across all of England, only Kent went into overdrive ? It means that your “ leap of the imagination “ is inaccurate. I also object to extremely destructive policy based on hunches which can be questioned with a few simple graphs (see below - from Nick Triggle - BBC health correspondent). Additionally – you’ve also managed to prove that lockdowns don’t work as by your own admission no major breaches of the rules were found in Kent, yet despite this – the answer is clearly more lockdowns, more economic, social and mental damage. Seriously, at what point is it going to register that these policies are disastrous ?  |
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Post by michael on Dec 23, 2020 12:25:41 GMT
If this is the case – why is that despite this new variant having been observed to be present across all of England, only Kent went into overdrive ? It means that your “ leap of the imagination “ is inaccurate. I also object to extremely destructive policy based on hunches which can be questioned with a few simple graphs (see below - from Nick Triggle - BBC health correspondent). Additionally – you’ve also managed to prove that lockdowns don’t work as by your own admission no major breaches of the rules were found in Kent, yet despite this – the answer is clearly more lockdowns, more economic, social and mental damage. Seriously, at what point is it going to register that these policies are disastrous ? It doesn't prove lockdowns don't work, it proves that the severity of lockdown is a factor. In Kent the schools stayed open. |
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 23, 2020 14:54:15 GMT
AS much as I'm frustrated with Boris and his bunch of 'chancers', is there any other group in Westminster who'd do better? That ferrety-faced fuck in charge of the Labour party has been calling for lockdown again and calling for Christmas to be cancelled for weeks, is now saying the opposite! I don't per se object to cancelling Christmas.
I object to dithering, making false promises and leaving us all in the lurch at the last minute.
We didn't have any food in for Christmas as we were not supposed to be here. And the problem is that we are not alone. The queues for butchers etc go around the block and are hours long.
Forget having a traditional Christmas meal - it's going to have to be a question of eating what's available.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 23, 2020 15:03:04 GMT
The schools stayed open across the country - so why didn't the mutant super strain explode everywhere else then ?
Surely in this particular instance logic would suggest going right back to the positive test outcomes to ensure they are accurate. Do all test samples for Kent go back to the same private laboratory for testing ?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 23, 2020 15:06:06 GMT
AS much as I'm frustrated with Boris and his bunch of 'chancers', is there any other group in Westminster who'd do better? That ferrety-faced fuck in charge of the Labour party has been calling for lockdown again and calling for Christmas to be cancelled for weeks, is now saying the opposite! I don't per se object to cancelling Christmas.
I object to dithering, making false promises and leaving us all in the lurch at the last minute.
We didn't have any food in for Christmas as we were not supposed to be here. And the problem is that we are not alone. The queues for butchers etc go around the block and are hours long.
Forget having a traditional Christmas meal - it's going to have to be a question of eating what's available.
We went to M &S last night and there was a short queue before getting into the food hall but it was OK once in and there was plenty of produce. Sainsbury’s was only moderately busy this lunchtime. |
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Post by Martin on Dec 23, 2020 15:12:47 GMT
I don't per se object to cancelling Christmas.
I object to dithering, making false promises and leaving us all in the lurch at the last minute.
We didn't have any food in for Christmas as we were not supposed to be here. And the problem is that we are not alone. The queues for butchers etc go around the block and are hours long.
Forget having a traditional Christmas meal - it's going to have to be a question of eating what's available.
We went to M &S last night and there was a short queue before getting into the food hall but it was OK once in and there was plenty of produce. Sainsbury’s was only moderately busy this lunchtime. But that doesn't make a great story!! (I'm thinking about the press, not Racing). Apparently there was a queue outside our Butchers yesterday when Lindsay went to collect a pre-ordered Turkey Crown and pigs in blankets, but it wasn't too bad and it was a similar story at the greengrocers. So we're all set for Christmas Day and through the weekend. |
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Post by johnc on Dec 23, 2020 15:19:24 GMT
We are going out for Christmas lunch but as a back-up we also bought in the full works in case it got cancelled. I can see me having to make a lot of room in the freezer!
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Post by michael on Dec 23, 2020 15:42:47 GMT
The schools stayed open across the country - so why didn't the mutant super strain explode everywhere else then ? Surely in this particular instance logic would suggest going right back to the positive test outcomes to ensure they are accurate. Do all test samples for Kent go back to the same private laboratory for testing ? It depends where the strain has taken hold. Obviously it needs to have got into specific populations to become a wider issue. I think it’s becoming more widely reported that it is more infectious to children now and in the Kent it seems to be getting spread in schools. |
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 23, 2020 15:43:35 GMT
There’s been queuing outside our butcher - because people are collecting the meat they ordered weeks ago for Christmas and they restrict numbers of customers in the shop. He’s certainly not been short of meat.
Smugly: we were ready for both eventualities of being here and not being here so now we’re here I won’t be leaving the house for a week.
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Post by Martin on Dec 23, 2020 15:47:41 GMT
I'm really looking forward to Friday, it will be the first day of being completely job/work free since March and then I'm off (but on call) until Tuesday.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 23, 2020 15:51:22 GMT
Smugly: we were ready for both eventualities of being here and not being here so now we’re here I won’t be leaving the house for a week. The way it's going, you may never leave your house again; another set of panic measures just announced this afternoon. We seem to have gone within a week from being told we would be allowed "3 bubbles" at Christmas, to no Christmas and effectively another full lockdown from Boxing day - unless we get another change of rules tomorrow. Surely if the virus is really this dangerous, we should be seeing bodies falling in the streets? |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 23, 2020 16:13:40 GMT
Ah you get used to it Chris, oop North we’ve been locked down for 3 months now, watching the South go to pubs, restaurants, sporting events, theatre while we polish our flat caps. We’re all in it together now - welcome to the Pleasuredome!
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Post by Martin on Dec 23, 2020 16:14:45 GMT
We're moving from Tier 2 to 3 from Boxing Day.
Not being able to go out for a meal isn't important when you just find out one of your employees passed away. He started to get symptoms on Saturday, went into hospital for observation on Monday and passed away this morning. He did have mild asthma (not bad enough to need an inhaler or to effect his work), he had an very active/physical job and was 47 years old.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 23, 2020 16:16:25 GMT
We went to M &S last night and there was a short queue before getting into the food hall but it was OK once in and there was plenty of produce. Sainsbury’s was only moderately busy this lunchtime. But that doesn't make a great story!! (I'm thinking about the press, not Racing). Apparently there was a queue outside our Butchers yesterday when Lindsay went to collect a pre-ordered Turkey Crown and pigs in blankets, but it wasn't too bad and it was a similar story at the greengrocers. So we're all set for Christmas Day and through the weekend. Thanks for delivering my turkey btw. I’m not sure about the note attached: “ To Bob, Merry Xmas, you twat!” But it’s the thought that counts, I guess. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 23, 2020 16:18:40 GMT
We're moving from Tier 2 to 3 from Boxing Day. Not being able to go out for a meal isn't important when you just find out one of your employees passed away. He started to get symptoms on Saturday, went into hospital for observation on Monday and passed away this morning. He did have mild asthma (not bad enough to need an inhaler or to effect his work), he had an very active/physical job and was 47 years old. That’s very sad, my friend was telling me one of his football teammates is on a ventilator, fighting for his life. He’s 44. |
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Post by Martin on Dec 23, 2020 16:24:28 GMT
But that doesn't make a great story!! (I'm thinking about the press, not Racing). Apparently there was a queue outside our Butchers yesterday when Lindsay went to collect a pre-ordered Turkey Crown and pigs in blankets, but it wasn't too bad and it was a similar story at the greengrocers. So we're all set for Christmas Day and through the weekend. Thanks for delivering my turkey btw. I’m not sure about the note attached: “ To Bob, Merry Xmas, you twat!” But it’s the thought that counts, I guess. Must have been the driver, we don't have time for personalisation! Our friends with the 'Bootiful' Turkeys were late with their errr....preparations again, for the second year running. It's amazing, as I can't think of many sales events/spikes that are so easy to predict! |
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Post by Martin on Dec 23, 2020 16:25:51 GMT
We're moving from Tier 2 to 3 from Boxing Day. Not being able to go out for a meal isn't important when you just find out one of your employees passed away. He started to get symptoms on Saturday, went into hospital for observation on Monday and passed away this morning. He did have mild asthma (not bad enough to need an inhaler or to effect his work), he had an very active/physical job and was 47 years old. That’s very sad, my friend was telling me one of his football teammates is on a ventilator, fighting for his life. He’s 44. It is very sad and unfortunately not the first we've lost. |
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 23, 2020 16:27:12 GMT
There’s been queuing outside our butcher - because people are collecting the meat they ordered weeks ago for Christmas and they restrict numbers of customers in the shop. He’s certainly not been short of meat. Smugly: we were ready for both eventualities of being here and not being here so now we’re here I won’t be leaving the house for a week. We get our meat delivered to the village by the butcher in Hexham, and like you, have had a fully stocked freezer since the spring as everything is so unpredictable. We go each week for fresh stuff, but there is a good selection of frozen veg in the freezer just in case. Tesco in Hexham was busy but bearable on Monday. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 16:37:36 GMT
Getting tight here, especially seeing as I have the neighbour to feed too now so I'm going in tomorrow and hoping to get 'something'. Just as long as it's not covid or some other lurgy, plenty of others going around. The secret Santa thing has gone down well, couldn't do the secret thing as the lodger is still roaming the blocks looking for stuff to nick but I think it has gone down OK so far. One left to deliver.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 23, 2020 16:47:29 GMT
It's everywhere (the reported incidences prove that).
Therefore, is it really credible to suggest that it's avoided all school age children everywhere except for Kent ?
Not a chance, especially if it's allegedly 70% more infectious than prior.
Anyway - the damage is done now - hello lockdown 3 and closed schools.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 23, 2020 17:22:46 GMT
I don't per se object to cancelling Christmas.
I object to dithering, making false promises and leaving us all in the lurch at the last minute.
We didn't have any food in for Christmas as we were not supposed to be here. And the problem is that we are not alone. The queues for butchers etc go around the block and are hours long.
Forget having a traditional Christmas meal - it's going to have to be a question of eating what's available.
We went to M &S last night and there was a short queue before getting into the food hall but it was OK once in and there was plenty of produce. Sainsbury’s was only moderately busy this lunchtime. There is no shortage of food.
It's simply shortages of "Christmas fare". Waitrose and Sainsburys near us are full of food, but just not turkeys, chickens, large joints etc.
My wife and I spent no less than two hours taking it in turns to stand outside our local good butcher, Randalls on Wandsworth Bridge Road, this afternoon in order to secure the poultry and meat my wife wanted for her Christmas recipes. Daft but my wife insisted and given how volcanic her temper is at present over being marooned alone in London for Christmas I am trying to go with the flow wherever possible...
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 23, 2020 17:30:09 GMT
We're moving from Tier 2 to 3 from Boxing Day. Not being able to go out for a meal isn't important when you just find out one of your employees passed away. He started to get symptoms on Saturday, went into hospital for observation on Monday and passed away this morning. He did have mild asthma (not bad enough to need an inhaler or to effect his work), he had an very active/physical job and was 47 years old. That’s very sad, my friend was telling me one of his football teammates is on a ventilator, fighting for his life. He’s 44. This is the point that so many people don't seem to get.
There's all this chat about civil liberties but my personal experience of friends and family is that people behave according to the rules. And if the rules allow something they do it, irrespective of whether it's sensible. Which merely demonstrates why rules are needed and those rules need to be sensible.
Until last Wednesday, London was in Tier 2 and it was permitted to go out for dinner and sit and eat in a room crowded with other diners. And lots of people I know did precisely that. We didn't. Because it struck both us as irresponsible and unnecessary, not least as we were supposed to be spending Christmas with my mother who is in her mid-seventies.
It's the Jeff Goldblum line from Jurassic Park: "just because you could doesn't mean you should".
But few people stop to think about that.
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