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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2020 17:17:47 GMT
I very much doubt the government is out to destroy anyone. If people acted more responsibly we would not have the increase in cases. Members of the public are doing this and until it stops we are buggered.
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Post by humphreythepug on Dec 19, 2020 17:22:10 GMT
Support and childcare bubbles are still allowed in Tier 4 Yep, will still be seeing the eldest and her family on Christmas day evening, she's Surrey (Waverley) but in tier 2, we are her support bubble.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 19, 2020 17:23:02 GMT
.. but only a few weeks ago the government told us to get back to work, use public transport again and start eating out in restaurants.
How do they know that it's not being spread around in schools, for example?
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 19, 2020 17:26:07 GMT
My head is about to explode.
It appears to me that you want people locking down, but only if it doesn't affect you in any way - it's the only thing that explains your conflicting posts all over the place.
Like John mentioned elsewhere, you need to look forward to next year. The government isn't on a personal vendetta to kill you off, Chris.
I can almost guarantee that had Corbyn got in, we would have been in your so called Communist syle lock down since March and wouldn't have been let out at all.
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Post by michael on Dec 19, 2020 17:33:49 GMT
If Corbyn had got in we wouldn’t have the vaccine. It was down to the Vaccine Taskforce that we secured them and that was an initiative of this government.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2020 17:49:55 GMT
I have just dropped my last pint glass (Straight) out of the pack I bought when I moved in but, the measuring jug is proving to be a great replacement AND it's got a handle.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2020 17:51:16 GMT
If Corbyn had got in we wouldn’t have the vaccine. It was down to the Vaccine Taskforce that we secured them and that was an initiative of this government. If Corbyn had got in we would be waiting for the socialist motherland vaccine and at the end of the queue at that.
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 19, 2020 18:12:05 GMT
If Corbyn had got in, the virus and lockdown would have been the least of our worries.
Anyway, back on topic, it appears 80% of us were wrong. My sincere feelings go out to those who can't enjoy their Christmas as planned and if its worth anything at all, I wouldn't blame you in the slightest if you decided to go ahead with them anyway.
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Post by johnc on Dec 19, 2020 18:19:15 GMT
I can see a lot of back gates and doors being used this Christmas with blinds kept down or curtains shut.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 19, 2020 18:51:31 GMT
My head is about to explode. It appears to me that you want people locking down, but only if it doesn't affect you in any way No, I don't want anyone locked down at all. So long as people wear masks without any exceptions, and observe distancing.. and stay home if they have signs of a virus - much like we should all be doing for, say, the flu. If the virus still spreads when 100% of the population are doing this, then we really do have a problem. But locking the country up off-and-on since March, continual changing of the rules is not IMHO the right way to carry on. If you don't have the virus why do you need to stay at home?
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 19, 2020 18:53:53 GMT
But you appear to object to public transport, schools and eating out?
I'm not actually disagreeing with you as per lockdowns, but your posts seem to conflict with each other.
As I said elsewhere, the vulnerable should shield, symptomatic, positive tests and their close contacts isolate while everyone else gets on with it.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 19, 2020 18:54:57 GMT
Nope - I would like research done to find out if any of those are "responsible" for the figures rising again
EDIT: as someone said recently, if you ask a Government advisor how best to crack a nut, they would say "use a sledgehammer", i.e. go totally over the top for what is required. This is what I fear has happened with the virus: Best way to stop it: Stop people meeting. Government falls for it hook, line and sinker without considering alternatives.
Or am I going mad?
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Post by michael on Dec 19, 2020 19:12:09 GMT
They’ve explained the existing social distancing efforts do not work for the new strain. What do you propose people do while this research goes on? I’d look at it this way, we’re so close to normalcy through the vaccine we might as well just suck it up and get through it quick. Prioritise the south east for the roll out if that’s deemed effective.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2020 19:12:40 GMT
No more than anyone else, mate. I found some Turkey crown from last year in the fridge, probably nuts but I'm cooking it. Odd that Turkey should smell of sprouts tho'.
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Post by Eff One on Dec 19, 2020 19:40:30 GMT
I very much doubt that the government set out to ruin anyone's Christmas, but they had to do something. The numbers in parts of Kent and Bucks are pretty scary. Lots of people on my social media feeds are referring to their bit of the interactive map and complaining that they're in T4 with only four cases locally - and missing the fact that the map data is five days out of date. We're also showing green up to 14 December. But in the wider Winchester area, the number of new cases has almost tripled in the last week.
My in-laws have gone into T4 so we have cancelled our plans with them, and downgraded our visit to my parents (still in T2) to a quick present swap.
This doesn't feel like the time to be taking any risks for the sake of Christmas. It's time to dig in and wait it out until the vaccine is more widely available.
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Post by Alex on Dec 19, 2020 20:30:24 GMT
Having travelled into Surrey yesterday and seeing how many people at Clapham Junction were not wearing masks and not social distancing and then seeing much the same amongst the school kids leaving for their Christmas holidays this was all utterly predictable. In Europe (not just Britain) we are used to living our life with the freedom to interpret rules however we wish and make our own life choices. This leads to many people objecting to the rules being foisted upon us and throughout the pandemic instead of taking the rules as read and obeying them, every new rule has people asking "but what if I?", "bad can I?" or "Is it a three house bubble for all of Christmas or can I form different bubble on Boxing day?".
In the far east the rules are obeyed to the letter. They don't moan about masks or refuse to wear one because they, are medically exempt through anxiety. Those who break the rules are properly punished. I'm not suggesting I'd like to be ruled by the Chinese communist party but given that the city of Wuhan which is far more densely populated than the UK is pretty much back to life as normal there is some evidence that if we followed the rules and did as we were told we might just be able to get through this.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 19, 2020 20:46:34 GMT
Straw poll from friends and guys down the golf club is that no-one will be changing their Xmas plans whatever changes are made to the rules. Is this still the case ?
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 19, 2020 21:03:44 GMT
I’m calling bullshit on the China situation, there is no way this has disappeared in China without a vaccine, none.
I’m also getting more than a little titsed off with the blame game (oh, if only they would follow the rules). It seems to have escaped the attention of many that throughout every single restrictive period we have had ten million plus people going to work every day and at least one person from over half the households in the UK going to the same place as everyone else (the supermarkets). If this new strain is 70% more infectious than the existing strains that are apparently multiple times more infectious than flu, then it’s going to whip round the country in double quick time whether you fart about with your mask or not.
I also detest the holier than thou attitude as I can guarantee that apart from a few hermits, everyone breaks the rules on their own terms - just read this thread.
Boris is also an utter shit for not pulling the trigger when he found out about this strain days ago, instead of properly discussing in Parliament and giving people notice he bullshits his way through and then does another weekend flip flop when all the MPs have left for Christmas. Any credibility he had left, he has just pissed away.
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Post by PG on Dec 19, 2020 22:15:36 GMT
I agree the BS call on China. We'll probably never find out what is really going on there. Same as Japan. A friend imports a lot of electronic stuff from Japan and he can't get any sense at all on availability. He reckons Japan have closed ranks to try and make sure the Olympics happens on 2021.
Whoever is in power here, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is ironic that whilst we can use all our 21st century skill to create vaccines, until they are widely available, we seem to be reduced to the same processes as in medieval times. The only thing we're not doing is putting red x's on people's doors.
If this new strain is that infectious, tier 4 won't work as people still need to shop to eat and essential shops, schools etc will still be open plus all the non-home workers are still out and about. THe longer this carried on, the more likely there will be a head on collision between health and economics. What happens then?
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 19, 2020 22:18:24 GMT
Fuck knows.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 19, 2020 22:53:19 GMT
Straw poll from friends and guys down the golf club is that no-one will be changing their Xmas plans whatever changes are made to the rules. Is this still the case ? No idea, I haven't spoken to anyone since 4pm this afternoon. Our plans haven't changed.
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Post by PG on Dec 20, 2020 7:57:21 GMT
This virus is clearly very clever. I see that in tier 4 places of worship can remain open. So if I go, in my family group, and stand in a church (other places of worship are available) I'll be fine. But if I go, with my family group, to a non-essential shop I'm doomed, so they have to close.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 20, 2020 11:05:35 GMT
Busted.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 20, 2020 13:15:21 GMT
This virus is clearly very clever. I see that in tier 4 places of worship can remain open. So if I go, in my family group, and stand in a church (other places of worship are available) I'll be fine. But if I go, with my family group, to a non-essential shop I'm doomed, so they have to close. I said similar about gyms (every piece of equipment cleaned every user) vs churches and someone argued back in favour of churches doing social distancing etc. Our house is big enough to social distance four or five families...... Anyway, someone explain to me how Waverley in Surrey (where sons live) is tier 2 and neighbouring Guildford is Tier 4. That alone demonstrates what utter bollocks this current scenario is.
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Post by michael on Dec 20, 2020 13:22:46 GMT
Is Waverley an administrative boundary outside Surrey? I can’t understand why that’d be subject to different rules.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 20, 2020 13:24:57 GMT
Is Waverley an administrative boundary outside Surrey? I can’t understand why that’d be subject to different rules. All the rules for Surrey specifically exclude Waverley. Mind you Godalming is a bit like the village of the damned....
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 20, 2020 17:49:53 GMT
Found out this morning that Farnborough (Hampshire) is still in Tier 2.... I live about a mile in a straight line from a Tier 2 area yet my home is in Tier 4. How can it be suddenly be incredibly dangerous to live where I do and venture outside onto my driveway, but if I go another mile, it's far, far safer - but I'm not supposed to travel there?
A lady at church runs a business... her home is in tier 2 but her business is in tier 4, so she's thinking of asking customers to visit her home, as her business has to stay closed from when she locked up on Saturday evening.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 20, 2020 17:55:14 GMT
This virus is clearly very clever. I see that in tier 4 places of worship can remain open. So if I go, in my family group, and stand in a church (other places of worship are available) I'll be fine. But if I go, with my family group, to a non-essential shop I'm doomed, so they have to close. If you go to church and your church is being "run" properly like mine is, there are stewards to ensure that nobody ventures in without a face covering, that they sanitise hands as soon as they are inside and remain at least 2 metres from anyone else. All pews, chairs etc are steam-cleaned AND disinfected after each service. Everyone is encouraged to re-sanitise on leaving - plenty of squirty bottles of sanitiser available. Contact details have to be left or you have to scan the QR code on arrival. no chances being taken, no cases reported from the church during this entire pandemic. I've not seen shops enforce facemasks, enforce separation or thoroughly clean down and disinfect shelves etc at least once an hour
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 20, 2020 18:12:07 GMT
Support and childcare bubbles are still allowed in Tier 4 Yep, will still be seeing the eldest and her family on Christmas day evening, she's Surrey (Waverley) but in tier 2, we are her support bubble. How does that work? One end of a support bubble is supposed to be a single person?
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 20, 2020 18:20:41 GMT
Support bubbles are for singles but childcare bubbles are the entire household.
Ironically my dad buggered off to the Netherlands yesterday to have Christmas with my sister and her partner and arrived by car ferry this morning. Luckily he didn't fly as he wanted to take the dog with him.
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