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Post by Big Blue on Jun 1, 2020 7:55:40 GMT
Can I just say that I’m disgusted none of us have mentioned an issue in the USA that is unrelated to a car forum. Really disappointing.
Or...... just a bit chippy?
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 1, 2020 8:06:47 GMT
I avoid the news at all costs at the moment. Whats occuring?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 1, 2020 8:24:29 GMT
I avoid the news at all costs at the moment. Whats occuring? A large country to the West of us is accelerating even faster into becoming a failed state. I can see a future of rubber dinghies washing up tired refugees onto the west of Ireland any day now. |
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Post by michael on Jun 1, 2020 8:41:10 GMT
Those on the northern side of The Wall are wondering how best to scale it.
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 1, 2020 10:04:14 GMT
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 1, 2020 10:16:50 GMT
I find it hard to believe that there is still so much racism in a "modern, civilised" society. ..... Law and order seems to be breaking down The USA has long seated racism: they even had a Civil War, partly over the rights of slaves. What's more irritating is the outbreaks in sympathy in the UK where, despite what the impressions given are, we are several decades /centuries ahead of the US in terms of racial equality. Alas for everyone appearances will always have an effect one way or the other on many humans. As a comparison, no matter how much you know that there are no poisonous spiders at large in the UK many people are afraid to pick up spiders or allow them to run over their hands: they look different and that's it. As to law and order in the USA, no chance whilst guns are so readily available, state line policing is in use (you can just cross the border!) and local politicians and police chiefs have an abundance of localised power. |
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 1, 2020 10:25:43 GMT
Having been fortunate enough to visit Philadelphia, New York, Boston and Washington DC over the past few years and attend some interesting talks, yes slavery there ended only comparatively recently and it appears that racism is indeed embedded into the minds of many to this day...... mainly centering on so-called "white supremacy". I still find it sad
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 11:59:05 GMT
I'm a little uncertain this is just a racism issue. Black people looting and burning stores owned and operated by other black people. More than just racism at work.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 12:08:52 GMT
The cop has been charged, so why is the rioting and looting continuing? Plenty of white people die in police custody in the States as well, but that doesn't cause riots. Or headlines about racism...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 12:17:13 GMT
I think it has got out of hand but the three cops who stood by when they should have prevented it are guilty by omission just as the murderer is by commission. They should be charged with manslaughter or whatever the septics call it.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 1, 2020 14:09:19 GMT
The cop has been charged, so why is the rioting and looting continuing? Plenty of white people die in police custody in the States as well, but that doesn't cause riots. Or headlines about racism... Wait till he's acquitted, then you'll see some serious rioting. They're already teeing that up by releasing medical reports saying the cop kneeling on his neck was not the cause of death and he had other health issues, including heart disease and hypertension. They'll throw in some drug traces for geed measure the cop will walk free to meet a crowd of his white power supporters outside the courthouse. |
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Post by johnc on Jun 1, 2020 14:34:10 GMT
I'm a little uncertain this is just a racism issue. Black people looting and burning stores owned and operated by other black people. More than just racism at work. America is a country of haves and have nots and the differences in wealth between the top and the bottom are mouth droppingly huge. Have you seen current the advert for the programme about life in Monaco where the waiter is seen with a Magnum of champagne that costs 28,000 Euros. The difference is you can't live in Monaco unless you are wealthy but in the US the rich and poor rub shoulders with each other all the time and money is almost idolised making the feelings of frustration by the poor even more great. |
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 1, 2020 14:54:32 GMT
I'm a little uncertain this is just a racism issue. Black people looting and burning stores owned and operated by other black people. More than just racism at work. America is a country of haves and have nots and the differences in wealth between the top and the bottom are mouth droppingly huge. Have you seen current the advert for the programme about life in Monaco where the waiter is seen with a Magnum of champagne that costs 28,000 Euros. The difference is you can't live in Monaco unless you are wealthy but in the US the rich and poor rub shoulders with each other all the time and money is almost idolised making the feelings of frustration by the poor even more great. If you're born and work in Monaco you can live there. There is set-aside housing for this purpose as there is no guarantee that you're born into a millionaire family. But point taken: the difference in have and have-not in the USA would defy the understanding of most western Europeans, hence my continued assertion that the job of politics in the modern world is to keep the masses at bay by ensuring that their lives are acceptable as opposed to needing to use force and restrictions. |
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 1, 2020 15:12:57 GMT
I'm sure that the have and have-not culture plays a part but I also think at the moment there is a lot of pent-up energy, anger and frustration at lockdown, loss of jobs etc. I think a larger percentage of Americans that Brits think that the lockdown measures in their country were over-kill (pardon the expression) and resent their loss of freedom. Rioting gives them an "excuse" to go outside and protest EDIT: www.autosport.com/f1/news/149715/hamilton-criticises-silent-f1-industry-over-protests |
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Post by michael on Jun 1, 2020 15:27:48 GMT
the difference in have and have-not in the USA would defy the understanding of most western Europeans This really can't be overestimated. If badly off in the UK you might live in a housing association property on Universal Credit with full healthcare. The house you live in wont be that much different in size to the average person and you'd have similar things and similar lives. In the US you'd live in a caravan on next to nothing praying you don't get ill. The middle classes have so much disposable income that lives are very different, the difference is stark.
I've just looked up our old house in Minneapolis where there has been trouble. It's funny seeing now as a matter of miles away was real poverty and when we were out there you just never saw it.
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Post by Tim on Jun 1, 2020 15:41:23 GMT
The cop has been charged, so why is the rioting and looting continuing? Plenty of white people die in police custody in the States as well, but that doesn't cause riots. Or headlines about racism... I expect there are a few factors It took a lot of public pressure for the cop to be charged. Once the rioting starts there will be plenty of folk who join in thinking that they're just one of a huge crowd so they can get some free stuff with little chance of being caught Who knows, there might be some agitators - black and white - who want to see a head to head for their own ends. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 15:47:12 GMT
Professional trouble makers, just like here. Anarchists sitting at their computers waiting for their next opportunity to kick off about a cause they probably don't give a shit about, but they might get a new TV for their mum from that store with no windows if they're not caught nicking it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 9:41:38 GMT
Do you really believe that's all that's going on here?
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Post by PG on Jun 2, 2020 10:03:54 GMT
There are three strands here and as usual in the circumstances, they all become totally intertwined in the actions, the views and the reporting.
One - what the cop did was clearly very wrong by any measure I can think of. And the video evidence looks pretty compelling to make innocent until proven guilty quite a hard line to defend here. Whether he get's found guilty or acquitted remains to be seen.
Two - peaceful protest. That's what people can and ought to do. If the police try to break that up, I'm not sure why they are and that's pretty dangerous if they are.
Three - rioting and looting. Seems to me a whole different thing to peaceful protest. The police have to come down hard on rioting and looting,or else anarchy follows. How you avoid it long term is a political issue that also needs to be debated. But short term, what else can be done except try and stop it?
I'd like to see all the people spouting off in the media (including Trump) say that items one and two are what they want to talk about and that item three is unacceptable. But all I'm hearing is that somehow item one justifies item three or that item three makes whatever happened in item one somehow irrelevent.
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Post by michael on Jun 2, 2020 10:06:42 GMT
Item three makes Trump more electable with a good number of his core supporters.
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Post by PG on Jun 2, 2020 12:11:19 GMT
Item three makes Trump more electable with a good number of his core supporters. His hard line to it indeed will play well to his base. I doubt many Republican voters were out there turning over police cars and looting electrical goods. But quite a few of them probably own the shops that got looted. |
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Post by Alex on Jun 2, 2020 12:56:56 GMT
One thing that isn't helping the governments cause is the tweets coming from POTUS. Some of his rants and ravings are inciting violence against journalists. When you get to that point it's incredibly dangerous. By also encouraging police to shoot anyone looting he isn't far short of suggesting that shop lifting should be punishable with the death sentence. I know it's more nuanced then that but the point is fair. And then to top it off he's even attacking those who are anti-fascist. Does that mean he's a fascist ruler?
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Post by Tim on Jun 2, 2020 13:26:54 GMT
I think it means he'll do pretty much anything to get re-elected.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 2, 2020 13:50:24 GMT
One thing that isn't helping the governments cause is the tweets coming from POTUS. Some of his rants and ravings are inciting violence against journalists. When you get to that point it's incredibly dangerous. By also encouraging police to shoot anyone looting he isn't far short of suggesting that shop lifting should be punishable with the death sentence. I know it's more nuanced then that but the point is fair. And then to top it off he's even attacking those who are anti-fascist. Does that mean he's a fascist ruler? We've seen journalists arrested and/or beaten up. Shop owners trying to defend their premises have been arrested by the police thinking they're looters (thankfully the shooting of looters hasn't started yet or there'd by multiple tragedies). Black FBI officer arrested, just for standing there and looking suspiciously black. We're now seeing people taking pot shots at police officers in LA. I was thinking yesterday it couldn't get much worse but now I'm thinking how bad can it get? The army will be deployed. Trump will be re-elected (if only because the Democrats can't field a half decent candidate) and he'll get a defacto third term when he puts his daughter up for President in 2024 and he continues to pull the strings from behind the curtain. |
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Post by Tim on Jun 2, 2020 14:02:27 GMT
I expect it to be his son in law rather than daughter.
The problem with the rioting, etc is that things have got so polarised you can't trust anyone to behave anymore.
E.g. there could be some white right wingers taking potshots in the hope of stirring more shit up while at the same time a few doors down some black activists could be doing exactly the same!
Plus Faceache, etc appears to be full of theories that the Russians or Chinese are funding the rioters!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 2, 2020 14:17:40 GMT
I expect it to be his son in law rather than daughter. Not a chance. He's not a Trump and therefore not "family". He's also Jewish and there's never been a Jewish President. Technically Ivanka is as well as she's converted but that's easier to sell. He's also got zero charisma and is completely overshadowed by his wife. They'll sell her on being a Republican, the first woman President, a Trump, a successful businesswoman. She ticks all their boxes. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 14:26:52 GMT
"I expect it to be his son in law rather than daughter".
Not a chance, by then the feminist vote will be in full fury mode and a movement will have gained traction. Defo his daughter in the house for at least one and probably two terms.
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Post by Tim on Jun 2, 2020 14:27:34 GMT
I was thinking more that Jared is extremely well connected (courtesy of Daddy, just like his wife), I'd forgotten the religious angle.
He has one of those unfortunate faces that at rest looks extremely smug - resting smug face in the style of resting bitch face!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 10:29:55 GMT
He has one of those unfortunate faces that at rest looks extremely smug Didn't do Bliar any harm... |
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Post by Tim on Jun 3, 2020 11:44:24 GMT
This guy is 100 times worse than Blair!
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