|
|
Post by michael on Jun 4, 2020 11:49:07 GMT
If you're saying the treat people like shit regardless of who they are then that is equality. I'm not sure what your example proves.
|
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Jun 4, 2020 12:24:36 GMT
Didn't stop the two of them being thoroughly aggressive, rude and unpleasant, and they only desisted and left because their radio went off summoning them to do some actual policing rather than mere harassing of law-abiding citizens. Arsey meatheads the pair of them. It was so uncalled for, that if I had been black, I would have absolutely thought they were picking on me for that reason. But surely that shows that they were being as equally unpleasant to you, white professional male in posh neighbourhood, as they would have been to black, decent earnings, different neighbourhood. |
|
|
|
Post by scouse on Jun 4, 2020 12:36:21 GMT
Justine Damond - an unarmed white woman - was shot dead by a black cop in 2017. In Minneapolis! That cop remained on the police force for eight months. And then, when the arrest warrant was finally issued for the cop who shot Ms. Damond, he wasn't fired. He resigned. Eight months after he shot the unarmed white woman. No riots. Not even a single protest against police misconduct or brutality.
Tony Timpa, an unarmed white man in dallas, who called 911 when he started going into convulsions having missed his medication was held in the same manner as George Floyd and was killed. No police officer was charged with even misconduct, let alone murder/manslaughter.
Not even a single protest against police misconduct or brutality followed their deaths.
The cop involved in Mr. Floyd's death was fired and arrested in the span of about four days. The other officers in George Floyd's killing where Asian, White and African American. The only one who made any attempt to get the officer off George's neck was white. I guess to some people ONLY black lives matter.
|
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Jun 4, 2020 12:48:55 GMT
If you're saying the treat people like shit regardless of who they are then that is equality. I'm not sure what your example proves. Don't be obtuse. I think it's pretty obvious. I'm saying that I would understand, given a history of institutionalised racism in the police, if a black person, in that situation, thought they were being picked on for being black given that there was no cause for it. It's only happened to me the once in my entire life. By all accounts it's a rather more common experience if you are black. |
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Jun 4, 2020 12:49:39 GMT
Didn't stop the two of them being thoroughly aggressive, rude and unpleasant, and they only desisted and left because their radio went off summoning them to do some actual policing rather than mere harassing of law-abiding citizens. Arsey meatheads the pair of them. It was so uncalled for, that if I had been black, I would have absolutely thought they were picking on me for that reason. But surely that shows that they were being as equally unpleasant to you, white professional male in posh neighbourhood, as they would have been to black, decent earnings, different neighbourhood. That's the reality vs perception point in a nutshell. |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 4, 2020 12:54:07 GMT
The whole George Floyd case has sickened me, and it's not as if this is unusual as week after week we hear of similar case of black males being targeted by cops or white vigilantes and being killed. If I was the father of a teenage black boy I'd be worried every time he left the house. There has to be wholesale change in policing, law, and incarceration in the US - and we need to take a look at ourselves as it's easy to point the finger at the US and ignore what is going on here. As a kid that grew up in the suburbs it was an eye opener when I came down to London and experienced the almost casual, accepted racism that people who I thought were friends espoused. Even today I talk to Londoners and they all have their token one or two black friends (which proves they're not racist) but dig deeper and they all have negative opinions on why life in the Capital is not all it should be and who they blame.
It's a valid point to bring up the grooming gangs. If those gangs had been white men preying on BAME girls there would have been hell on - you'd have seen the protests, the celebrities getting involved, a movement with a hashtag created, multiple articles in print and on TV about the causes and what to do. Now I appreciate that doing that when the perpetrators are BAME may cause a backlash against ordinary law abiding minorities but it does smack of double standards and means we avoiding the uncomfortable questions. Far easier to write endlessly about racism in the US than that closer to home.
|
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Jun 4, 2020 13:12:27 GMT
It's a valid point to bring up the grooming gangs. If those gangs had been white men preying on BAME girls there would have been hell on - you'd have seen the protests, the celebrities getting involved, a movement with a hashtag created, multiple articles in print and on TV about the causes and what to do. Now I appreciate that doing that when the perpetrators are BAME may cause a backlash against ordinary law abiding minorities but it does smack of double standards and means we avoiding the uncomfortable questions. Far easier to write endlessly about racism in the US than that closer to home. All of that apart from your first sentence I agree with. Because I question the motive of bringing it up. I have no angst about any of this. I don't feel an ounce of white guilt or any such nonsense. I can't help who I am by virtue of my birth any more than anyone else can. But I can choose how I behave and I simply get the point about equality here and now. Is there some double standards at work among protestors? Sure. Find me somewhere where there isn't. But is that the main problem here about which to huff and puff? No, not by a long stretch in my view. |
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Jun 4, 2020 13:19:40 GMT
The trouble is that racism takes many forms but not all are recognised in the same way. A black associate of mine played for West Ham Youth in the late '70s-early'80s - the amount of racial abuse he speaks about defies belief. But then, conversley, his mother was a diplomat and he was well schooled and spoken so the black kids eyed him with equal suspicion. To Bob's point about non-city racism when he moved to Hertfordshire and again spoke with is standard-English accent locals were bemused by the fact that he didn't walk about dressed like Monolulu and speaking in patois.
|
|
|
|
Post by michael on Jun 4, 2020 13:24:27 GMT
The motive is why only protest the high profile popular cause, you either believe in equality or you don't.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 4, 2020 13:41:11 GMT
When I was at university, on one of my courses there were some lads from the west coast of Africa (I forget which country exactly) and three lads from Birmingham with an Afro-Caribbean ancestry. During one discussion that got heated the lads from Birmingham turned to the African lads and said they should support their point of view. One of the African lads questioned why and was told that they shared a common heritage of slavery. The African lad replied "well if you mean that my ancestors probably sold your ancestors into slavery then you're probably correct.."
It was at that point that us whiteys decided to make a sharp exit as this was one discussion we didn't want to get in the middle of.
|
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Jun 4, 2020 14:49:28 GMT
The motive is why only protest the high profile popular cause, you either believe in equality or you don't. As I said earlier, in my experience, people are generally roused to protest about things that cut closest to home for them. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just making an observation. Anyone who thinks racism or indeed slavery is an inherently white problem is displaying their own ignorance and racism. People of all colours and creeds are racist. That goes back to tribalism in all countries, where the members of a neighbouring tribe or village were inherently considered inferior for no reason other than the tendency of human beings to think that they and their own relatives are somehow particularly special. There's a fascinating debate about the philosophy of this but perhaps one for another time. |
|
|
|
Post by michael on Jun 4, 2020 15:02:00 GMT
I don't disagree there were legitimate protestors, I've acknowledged that from the start.
Anyway, I agree racism is a fascinating issue. As current and former friends on FB might recall in 2016 I documented the racism of the cows in the field over the road as a not-too-subtle vehicle for commentary on the upcoming Brexit vote. The same heard of cows are still in that field as I type and the solitary spotty cow is still the subject of wanton abuse from the rest of the heard.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 4, 2020 15:07:55 GMT
I don't disagree there were legitimate protestors, I've acknowledged that from the start. Anyway, I agree racism is a fascinating issue. As current and former friends on FB might recall in 2016 I documented the racism of the cows in the field over the road as a not-too-subtle vehicle for commentary on the upcoming Brexit vote. The same heard of cows are still in that field as I type and the solitary spotty cow is still the subject of wanton abuse from the rest of the heard. #memoo movement |
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Jun 4, 2020 15:09:07 GMT
Cats are also ghetto-prone. You never see a tabby hanging out with a black one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 15:14:08 GMT
Actually round here we do but then again it is the local branch of the 'cat mafia'.
|
|
|
|
Post by michael on Jun 4, 2020 15:24:22 GMT
Spotty has moved to the far right.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 9:27:02 GMT
I was thinking about this because there's a dramatization on Beeb 1 on Monday - maybe the Windrush debacle chimes with more than a few involved. Not in the same league as being killed, but being threatened with deportation isn't my idea of a giggle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 17:52:39 GMT
All in the name of equality, eh?
|
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Jun 6, 2020 18:47:13 GMT
Fox never met a good cause it didn't object to.
|
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on Jun 6, 2020 19:05:27 GMT
Fox never met a good cause it didn't object to. Have you watched the video, because that's not what I see at all? |
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Jun 6, 2020 19:34:24 GMT
Oh yes I did. Ok, not all near-half an hour of it. I couldn't put up with it - I thought it was utterly revolting barely-disguised racist bullshit.
Watch the first part and there is no mention of what caused, that there are legitimate protests or anything like that. The proverbial alien just landed from Mars and watching that would be forgiven for thinking that the US was like something out of HG Wells...that the rotten Morlocks had come up from underground and were running riot among the noble Eloi.
Just twisted.
|
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on Jun 6, 2020 19:49:16 GMT
Yes I saw racism too, but perhaps not in the same way you do.
These looters are doing it mindlessly and it has nothing to do with what happened in Minneapolis. That's just an excuse for something inexcusable and it doesn't help the original cause one little bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Jun 6, 2020 19:59:45 GMT
Yes I saw racism too, but perhaps not in the same way you do. These looters are doing it mindlessly and it has nothing to do with what happened in Minneapolis. That's just an excuse for something inexcusable and it doesn't help the original cause one little bit. The looting is awful and unjustifiable. But focusing on it as the main issue at stake the way Tucker Carlson (who is infamous for sailing very close to the wind on such matters) smacks to me of deliberately trying to belittle the root cause. And I’m neither black nor particularly somebody who makes a habit of getting fussed about racism. I just look at it as an objective outside observer and say what I see. |
|
|
|
Post by garry on Jun 6, 2020 21:10:40 GMT
I’m not sure if I accept that George Floyds murder had anything to do with his race. What I see is an American police force that kills citizens with breathtaking frequency. They shoot roughly 1,000 people per year - many more white people than black people. It’s fair to say that black deaths are proportionally over-represented when you pro rata the population but they get killed at the same frequency as everyone else per encounter (meaning there are proportionally more police encounters with black people). I don’t know what the figures are here in the uk, but I will say that from all the travelling I’ve done I would not swap our police force for any other in the world. So, there are two points I’d make:
1. The American people should be protesting this horrible murder for what it is - yet another example of an out of control police force who all too often kill the people they’re supposed to protect.
2. I have no idea why groups in the uk see the police murder of a man in America as a reason to riot here. Protest by all means, but to turn it into a F.. the Police festival here makes no sense.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 22:29:42 GMT
It's not just rioting and looting, it's murder. Retired policeman David Dorn was a black man killed by black looters robbing a pawn shop.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Jun 8, 2020 13:26:19 GMT
I’m not sure if I accept that George Floyds murder had anything to do with his race. What I see is an American police force that kills citizens with breathtaking frequency. They shoot roughly 1,000 people per year - many more white people than black people. It’s fair to say that black deaths are proportionally over-represented when you pro rata the population but they get killed at the same frequency as everyone else per encounter (meaning there are proportionally more police encounters with black people). I don’t know what the figures are here in the uk, but I will say that from all the travelling I’ve done I would not swap our police force for any other in the world. So, there are two points I’d make: 1. The American people should be protesting this horrible murder for what it is - yet another example of an out of control police force who all too often kill the people they’re supposed to protect. 2. I have no idea why groups in the uk see the police murder of a man in America as a reason to riot here. Protest by all means, but to turn it into a F.. the Police festival here makes no sense. In the main I agree with the above. However I do think that the US has a deeply ingrained racist problem. When the Ryder Cup was at Gleneagles my manager went up to watch play. The only way to get in was by bus and he ended up sitting next to a group of Americans from Texas. The marvelled at the stone dyke walls which are everywhere and one of them asked my manager "Who builds those walls when you don't have any n*****s or Mexicans"? I think that sums up nicely the attitudes that are prevalent in some areas of the US and perhaps points to the fact that it will be rather a long time before such views die or disappear. |
|
|
|
Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 13:55:12 GMT
I’m not sure if I accept that George Floyds murder had anything to do with his race. What I see is an American police force that kills citizens with breathtaking frequency. They shoot roughly 1,000 people per year - many more white people than black people. It’s fair to say that black deaths are proportionally over-represented when you pro rata the population but they get killed at the same frequency as everyone else per encounter (meaning there are proportionally more police encounters with black people). I don’t know what the figures are here in the uk, but I will say that from all the travelling I’ve done I would not swap our police force for any other in the world. So, there are two points I’d make: 1. The American people should be protesting this horrible murder for what it is - yet another example of an out of control police force who all too often kill the people they’re supposed to protect. 2. I have no idea why groups in the uk see the police murder of a man in America as a reason to riot here. Protest by all means, but to turn it into a F.. the Police festival here makes no sense. In the main I agree with the above. However I do think that the US has a deeply ingrained racist problem. When the Ryder Cup was at Gleneagles my manager went up to watch play. The only way to get in was by bus and he ended up sitting next to a group of Americans from Texas. The marvelled at the stone dyke walls which are everywhere and one of them asked my manager "Who builds those walls when you don't have any n*****s or Mexicans"? I think that sums up nicely the attitudes that are prevalent in some areas of the US and perhaps points to the fact that it will be rather a long time before such views die or disappear. I don’t disagree with you. I used to live in Edinburgh and spent time with a North American sales team who would visit for our annual conference. Their masks would slip after a couple of drinks and they’d be making comments about the waiters in the Indian restaurant. Mind you, they were also pretty awful to woman too or really anyone who wasn’t the same as them. So I’m not saying there isn’t a racism problem in the states, just that myopic focus on racism might not get to the route cause. Taking it to an extreme, if the problem is racism, the police could fix that by killing a few more whites. What the American people should really be saying is ‘Would you mind not murdering any of us!” |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 13:57:12 GMT
After the Colston statue thing in Bristol Hammy is now demanding that all statues of slave traders be torn down. Can't be that many about shirley?
|
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Jun 8, 2020 14:35:59 GMT
After the Colston statue thing in Bristol Hammy is now demanding that all statues of slave traders be torn down. Can't be that many about shirley? Until yesterday he probably didn't know there were ANY in the UK. I only became aware of Colston last year when the newly installed CEO of Colston Hall (a popular venue for gigs I think) did the whole liberal hand-wringing thing and wanted to change the name. While I'm not totally against that there are 2 issues that come into my head:- 1. Most people didn't know/care and you've now made newsworthy a guy that died 300 years ago. 2. For all of those that are starting/jumping on the bandwagon, if you find out that you've benefited in some way from the guy's legacy are you going to refund the cost as a mark of your protest? I know the answer to question 2. |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 8, 2020 14:42:25 GMT
The problem with the Black Lives Matter protests is who are they trying to talk to? They're not talking to us (I'm pretty sure none of us are racists) as I'm sure we agree with the argument they are putting forward. There is, no doubt, a section of racists in the UK but will this protest register with them? Will it move their needle? It might have done if the protests were peaceful but as soon as they watch the rioting and the police getting pelted they are just going to look at that and it reconfirms all their prejudices against minorities. They well and truly shot themselves in the foot there. Add in the feeling that black lives matter only when there is a white person involved and there isn't the same outrage at the far more prevalent black on black killings (the stabbings in London are horrendous), and the fact that on the one hand BAME people are outraged that they are far more affected by Covid than whites, yet insist on holding a rally in the midst of a pandemic, further confirms the feelings of those who are prejudiced against them.
We're very lucky to live on a lovely estate that has a large number of Chinese residents who have businesses in Chinatown, Asian neighbours who work at the nearby Freeman Hospital, and some families of NUFC academy kids who are of African origin (usually French). Everyone gets on great and looks out for one another but last night driving in I saw someone had taped a placard to a lampost that said "Black Lives Matter - Silence is Compliance". My immediate thought was; "fuck you, you don't know me". It'll have been put up by some virtue-signalling white person who'll probably come round and pull down that Edward Colston statue water feature I've got in my back garden.
|
|
