|
Post by ChrisM on Mar 27, 2017 20:11:31 GMT
I really wonder how so many car makers manage to sell to private motorists voa the main dealer network. I've already posted about younger daughter's issues with Watford Audi failing to return her calls or confirm test drives three times in February. She was home for mum's day and we browes the Audi UK site for used TT coupes. We located just one suitable car, a 2014 model in deep blue, which was at Amersham Audi and clicked the link to be contacted. Got an e-mail acknowledgement, partly expected a call back yesterday afternoon, if not first thing this morning. She tried 3 or 4 times this morning to call them with no answer from the dealership, just a recored message giving options to press which looped round and round.... I tried myself with same result. So I e-mailed them direct and had a call back about 5 minutes later from their receptionist apologising. A salesperson finally cpoke to daughter and they had no trace of the car on the website; some time later I got a call back from another salesperson there saying it had been moved to another branch as someone had put down a deposit on it.... so a potential £17k sale wasted as nobody followed up on the original enquiry. They're now tryng to fob her off with a 2012 car for more money..... No thanks
I ventured into a few dealerships in Guildford on Saturday; Guildford Audi almost pushed me out of the showroom as we weren't looking to spend at least £20k.
For my possible purchase: Guildford M-B showroom was depressingly dark, filled with black cars. Spend quite a while wandering round, opening doors (boots were locked), sitting in cars but nobody approached me. GLA looks like the only small or medium-sized SUV that they do anyway, and it looks too small plus with black exterior, black interior and black headliner it was like sitting in a coal cellar. No thanks. Guildford BMW.. wandered through the door looking for a showroom, no sign of any cars. After a few minutes standing at the counter waiting to be acknowledged, one of the receptionists finally spoke and said that the showroom was closed for 3 months for refurbishment. No new cars at all were available to look at; all cars on display outside were locked (good job it wasn't raining). A salesperson was finally produced and I did manage to have a look at a used X1 but unable to open doors fully as it was parked close to other used cars. Have been offered a drive in an X3 and X1 on same day by appointment but neither was available on Saturday.
Currently waiting for Ford dealer to see if they can improve on the Kuga offer they made last week to change the C-Max as its PCP ends soon; where have the past 2 years gone, and why do they seem to be the only dealership that are interested in doing business with me? Shame I can't persuade younger daughter to also buy a new Ford from them......
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 27, 2017 20:29:54 GMT
I think Humph will confirm this but salespeople can suss out if you're a genuine punter or not very quickly. Often they don't even need to talk to you.
When I go to buy a car I narrow it down to three or four options, visit the showroom, have a conversation with a salesperson and have a test drive, making an appointment to come back if for any reason the car I want is not available. We then talk figures and I buy the car. It's never struck me as a particularly difficult concept.
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Mar 27, 2017 21:00:09 GMT
When I bought the Gorilla the BMW dealer was disbelieving when I called from Munich airport to say I'd actually arrived ready to view the car. I think Chris probably gives the aura of someone that already knows what he wants, what he wants to pay for it and when he wants it so salesmen shoo him off as too hard to sell to: these blokes want to do a deal, not be told what they're going to sell you.
|
|
|
Post by cbeaks1 on Mar 27, 2017 21:32:31 GMT
t Ford dealer to see if they can improve on the Kuga offer they made last week to change the C-Max as its PCP ends soon; where have the past 2 years gone, and why do they seem to be the only dealership that are interested in doing business with me? Shame I can't persuade younger daughter to also buy a new Ford from them...... Chris - check with your dealer but I think I can get you an Ambassador voucher because you have the Captur registered to the household. I can't remember the amount but I think it is pushing 4 figures and also half price paint. I really think you should get the V10 or V8 you have always wanted.
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Mar 28, 2017 7:54:44 GMT
I think Humph will confirm this but salespeople can suss out if you're a genuine punter or not very quickly. Often they don't even need to talk to you. When I go to buy a car I narrow it down to three or four options, visit the showroom, have a conversation with a salesperson and have a test drive, making an appointment to come back if for any reason the car I want is not available. We then talk figures and I buy the car. It's never struck me as a particularly difficult concept. Audi with the used car, it was sold, not really sure what more they could have done regarding that one, Ok they didn't immediately contact you back from the initial enquiry however you enquired on Sunday and you chased them up on Monday as you hadn't heard so not exactly long time scales. They probably saw the enquiry on Sunday, knew it had been sold and thought "I'll get back to that later it's sold and we have nothing else similar so no major rush" and it got forgotten about in the busyness of the day. Can't really comment on the treatment that you received at Audi, however from what i have read about Audi dealers, they all tend to be a bit crap, we are also at the end of a very important quarter for the motor trade, perhaps they were busy and it also seems that you decided for yourself that the Mercedes wasn't for you not really sure what a sales guy could have done to make any real difference. Vines; they are being refurbished, when that happens everything is always going to be a bit more difficult for everyone; yourself and the staff, everyone just has to make do with what they've got to hand and it appears the sales guy did the best he could with what he had and you were also offered to book for a test drive, again not really sure what the issue is. As for what Bob has said, yes we can usually suss people out very quickly and the longer I've done the job the easier it is to do and sometimes without even speaking to them, to the point that sometimes I'll appear busy when someone comes in so our trainee will pick them up (yes naughty of me, however I don't care!) I can spot a mystery shopper before they have even walked into the dealership. It's all in the body language, some people just scream difficult and many make it far more difficult than it actually needs to be. Not saying that you are difficult Chris, however maybe it is the way you come across, however having said that from what you have posted, I would say that the only place where you have had poor treatment is Audi Guildford and they don't have a great reputation anyway. Many people make buying a car from a dealer a chore, you only have to look at the weekly threads on PistonHeads about alleged poor dealer experiences, however when delved a bit deeper the OP's are generally making life harder for themselves in the way that they come across and what they expect and no matter what many believe, sometimes some people are just not worth dealing with and selling a car to. (Again, not lumping you into that bracket Chris)
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Mar 28, 2017 11:57:21 GMT
Vines BMW have sold me my last three BMWs (M5 (used), M135i and 440i GC (new)). I wouldn't go back if it wasn't a satisfactory experience.
Obviously I was only a random punter the first time I popped by on a complete whim on a Saturday with about 20 mins notice to see the M5. And on this latest occasion, it was very much a case of "this is the model I want / this is the spec I want / these are the discounts available on-line / this is my deposit and I want to pay less than £x per month / don't try to sell me any dealer extras (insurance/paint protection etc etc) / can you get it delivered by 15 December? If so you get to sell me another car". Obviously I phrased it more politely than that. But nevertheless the salesman (not the same as last time as the previous guy had left) was more than happy to go along with that approach and got the sale by being pleasant, accommodating and extremely efficient. Never set foot in Guildford until collection day.
Likewise when I took my mother in to Coopers BMW/MINI in Ipswich to try and then buy a Countryman, I couldn't fault the service we received in any way.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on Mar 28, 2017 12:13:39 GMT
I think the local Ford dealership have come up trumps again, and Mr cbeaks1 has provided some very kind assistance ..... EDIT: Oh, and FWIW the Audi dealership rang this morning to say that the TT is suddenly available again once it has been returned to them on Friday...... my daughter can hardly contain her excitement
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Mar 28, 2017 12:20:03 GMT
I think the local Ford dealership have come up trumps again, and Mr cbeaks1 has provided some very kind assistance ..... EDIT: Oh, and FWIW the Audi dealership rang this morning to say that the TT is suddenly available again once it has been returned to them on Friday...... my daughter can hardly contain her excitement So not as difficult as you'd thought! The Audi dealer elsewhere had probably had a punter see the TT on Audi UK's website and asked their local dealer to get it in for them before promptly changing their mind. Not much your dealer could have done really.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Mar 28, 2017 12:28:35 GMT
We went into the BMW showroom in Perth on Saturday to look at bike racks. Walked into the showroom, got a smile & hello from someone, went across to look at the car that had the kit fitted and after a couple of minutes a salesman came over. He was apologetic - as accessories are done through the parts dept - but extremely helpful.
He emailed the parts dept with our query and I got a phonecall on Monday at 8:55 to go over it and order the bits.
Very easy and pleasant, however that dealer is well known for being very customer focussed.
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Mar 28, 2017 13:18:05 GMT
I've been to BMW dealers in the UK and Germany and can't find fault to be honest, even if I'm just mooching. Coopers Thames Ditton were a bit slow on a follow up last year for the air suspension fix (I put that down to the Alpina chassis number) but exemplary thereafter. If it's any consolation some of the on-line comments about Widman and Winterholler, the dealer in Dachau where I bought the Gorilla, were less than pleasant yet I found everything there to be just right. The only issue I had was collecting the car at the beginning of April on number plate change day! I had a long wait for an export registration.
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Mar 28, 2017 13:27:53 GMT
So the dealers you visited were right Chris, you were wasting their time while you waited for a good deal on another Ford? Have you had a test drive in a Kuga? I don't have any complaints about BMW as well, but have always struggled with Audi (as had my dad) who have been either disinterested or downright unhelpful. The only exception was when I was looking at the A8 and was looked after by the lady who was responsible for A8/R8/RS sales.
|
|
|
Post by grampa on Mar 28, 2017 13:41:38 GMT
Difficult customers can be turned round, sometimes quite easily - in my experience, people tend to be difficult because they've had bad experiences elsewhere - a little bit of showing that you can make it a good experience is often all that's required.
I've often thought that if business to business sales processes/tactics (call them what you will) were applied to car sales (when you're often selling something that's no where near as exciting as car to buy), you would clean up - simple things like sizing up if the customer is a quick buyer or a slow buyer, a bit of natural relationship building instead of the formulaic things car sales people seem to use, answering enquiries promptly (even if there's nothing you can offer, it leaves an impression and encourages people to come back), arranging test drives promptly and enthusiastically - if the cars are there, offer an instant test drive for instance - I've had vastly different experiences when buying new cars - most of the good ones from sales women to be honest - and garages have lost sales to me from lack of interest on a car I've clearly been very keen to buy - on two occasions simply because they couldn't be bothered to arrange a test drive.
Best salesman I ever dealt with was at a Mazda dealer - from the moment I phoned about arranging the test drive, he couldn't do enough - when I got there, he had even lined two cars up because I'd mentioned I wasn't sure about spec. He drove a 100 mile round trip on his own time the night before I was to take delivery to ensure the agreed date was met (there was a part missing from the optional alarm system they were fitting which he went to fetch) and when I went back for a service, he always made a point of greeting me, once even throwing me the keys of the just lanched V6 323 - "I know you're not in the market yet, but take if for a spin." Then when the Mazda was due for replacement, he even managed to sell me an Alfa!
I know someone who's in senior management of a dealership which has a car supermarket type outlet and he reckons the sales people who bone up on the cars and show interest to buyers earn about 4x the amount of the ones who are very nonchalant towards customers.
Buying the Scirocco was the most frustrating buying experience ever, being stonewalled at dealer after dealer and finally through my own efforts finding a dealer that was interested in selling to me - nearly 250 miles from my home!
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Mar 28, 2017 14:05:34 GMT
That's a good point re Business to Business sales being different.
I've worked on both sides of the table and am back on the supplier side for a year now after 13 years as a customer, which is definitely the tougher side to be on! It is good to experience both sides though and as my wife heads up indirect procurement for a large construction group, I can get a professional view as well which helps.
The sales experience at BMW was fairly traditional. He didn't have as much knowledge as the customer (but I can't be too hard in him for that!), I got to try a couple of cars to be sure on what I wanted and the transactional part was simple, I gave them a price and stuck to it until they got within £200 and I knew that it was as far as they could go. The Porsche experience was much closer to what I'm used to, very professional and all about the long term relationship rather than just that sale.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 14:48:10 GMT
]
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Mar 28, 2017 14:58:15 GMT
This might be unfair but I've always had the feeling that MOST (not all) car salesmen would be just as comfortable working in Currys or somewhere similar. They generally have little interest in cars beyond what demo they're getting to drive for the next month. Clearly there are exceptions
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on Mar 28, 2017 15:28:49 GMT
So the dealers you visited were right Chris, you were wasting their time while you waited for a good deal on another Ford? Not at all, I was hoping for a change of manufacturer this time round - something with a better perceived image, however I'm quite happy to stick with Ford again
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on Mar 28, 2017 15:37:57 GMT
I wandered around the BMW dealership in Bath for about an hour once and no-one spoke to me at all. Most of the Audi places I've been have been pretty good, but the service at Slough once was a bit crap. Mrs P had a service and MOT booked there, they phoned to say the car was ready, but when we got there there was no MOT certificate. They hadn't done it. It then turned out that they don't do MOTs on site, so they rang round various MOT centres and we had to wait for the car until they'd taken it to one and brought it back again. Nice coffee while we sat around, though! You want a bad experience? Once many years ago when I had my Honda and worked in Swindon but still lived in Surrey, I booked a full service at the main Honda dealership in Swindon on the basis that I dropped the car off early morning so that it was ready for me by 4:30pm as I had a 2 hour drive home. I dropped it off at about 7:45am, phoned at lunchtime to be told it was almost ready. At 4:00pm when I went to the dealership to collect it, I was informed that they had only just started work on the car and I was kept waiting until 6pm before it was ready. They could not loan me a demo car to go home in as there were none available and there were by that time no senior managers on-site for me to speak to, to complain and/or to provide me with a means of leaving to get home by 4:30pm. I think they were more concerned with repeat business from company car drivers and the nearby Honda factory, and as a private customer I was treated (imho) very shabbily. This is by far the worst treatment I have ever received and it was never followed up with an apology; the service receptionist did reduce the bill as a goodwill gesture but they failed to meet my request to have the car ready by 4:30pm, their promise to do so and they lied to me earlier in the day about the car being almost ready at 1:00pm. They had had it for 8 hours before they even started work on it.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Mar 28, 2017 18:21:26 GMT
I confess it would never occur to me to go into a car showroom and just wander around unless all I want to do is wander around, in which case I would prefer that I was left alone by the sales team. If I want to talk to someone, I go to the reception desk and ask. Or more likely I would ring in advance and make an appointment, to avoid discovering that everyone was busy / they didn't have an example of the model I was interested in that day.
No offence intended but that strikes me as nothing more than common sense.
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on Mar 28, 2017 19:15:53 GMT
I wouldn't necessarily make an appointment. I may just want to have a close look before narrowing my options, but I would always be quite assertive, and like you say, go and make my presence known at reception.
|
|
|
Post by cbeaks1 on Mar 28, 2017 20:24:28 GMT
I confess it would never occur to me to go into a car showroom and just wander around unless all I want to do is wander around, in which case I would prefer that I was left alone by the sales team. If I want to talk to someone, I go to the reception desk and ask. Or more likely I would ring in advance and make an appointment, to avoid discovering that everyone was busy / they didn't have an example of the model I was interested in that day. No offence intended but that strikes me as nothing more than common sense. I can almost guarantee that they will have standards for meet and greet within about 2 minutes.
|
|
|
Post by grampa on Mar 29, 2017 9:11:44 GMT
I confess it would never occur to me to go into a car showroom and just wander around unless all I want to do is wander around, in which case I would prefer that I was left alone by the sales team. If I want to talk to someone, I go to the reception desk and ask. Or more likely I would ring in advance and make an appointment, to avoid discovering that everyone was busy / they didn't have an example of the model I was interested in that day. No offence intended but that strikes me as nothing more than common sense. I've been about half and half with making an appointment or just dropping in - if it's a place I pass anyway, I've tended to drop in when a new car is on the horizon - which has met with a mixture of reactions from total lack of interest (Audi) to getting me in a car for a test drive there and then (Mini and Ford) or booking a test drive for a car that wasn't on the premises (Vauxhall). If it's for a make where I have to travel specially, then I've rung to see that they have the car for me to look at - and again my arrival has been greeted with a mix of first class (Mazda), excellent (Renault second nearest dealer) to pretty rubbish (nearest Renault dealer). Also, it's difficult to rate a dealer by brand - I've been to an excellent Renault dealer and a crap one, same with Rover and Ford and been met with mediocracy - Mercedes and BMW
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 9:28:56 GMT
.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 9:50:14 GMT
There certainly seems to be a recurring theme with Audi.
Back in 2001 I was due to leave the Army and wanted a new Tax-free car (one of the perks of the job). I had £20 000 available and wanted to compare the deals available between an A4 estate and a Skoda Octavia, so arranged to meet the wife at the local VAG dealership. I went straight from work on my motorbike and arrived before the wife. I started to peruse the vehicles on my short list and was totally ignored by the staff, even though I had caught their eye and gestured for one of them to come over. Some 20 minutes passed and the wife finally showed up, hood down in our 6 month old CLK convertible. Two salesmen were out like a shot and intercepted her before she had even left the car. They asked if they could be of any help, to which she replied that they need to speak to her husband. I told her (them) that she may as well go home as we were clearly wasting our time. I bought the Alfa (tax-free AND 25% forces discount!!)instead and pocketed the rest. I have never considered any VAG product since...arrogant cnuts!
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Mar 30, 2017 10:27:47 GMT
My worst experience was from Mercedes in Giffnock when I was seriously interested in a 350CDi E Class Coupe. Arranged a test drive and turned up with my wife and daughter at the agreed time. They left us waiting for at least 30 minutes and when someone came to talk to us properly they told us they couldn't find the keys for the car. They suggested we take a 2 year old car for a drive but that wouldn't start, so they jump started it and then found it had no fuel. The salesman then drove us to the petrol station and after putting £10 of diesel in it, it wouldn't start again! We had another 30 minutes in the petrol station before help arrived by which time any enthusiasm I had was long gone.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 30, 2017 10:47:43 GMT
I bought the Alfa (tax-free AND 25% forces discount!!)instead and pocketed the rest. I have never considered any VAG product since...arrogant cnuts! I had a friend in the RAF, stationed in Germany, who bought a new Alfa convertible every six months,tax free and discounted, before driving then to the UK and selling them. Made a tidy profit on each one. There were limits on the number of new cars you could buy this way - was it two or three per year?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 10:55:28 GMT
I bought the Alfa (tax-free AND 25% forces discount!!)instead and pocketed the rest. I have never considered any VAG product since...arrogant cnuts! I had a friend in the RAF, stationed in Germany, who bought a new Alfa convertible every six months,tax free and discounted, before driving then to the UK and selling them. Made a tidy profit on each one. There were limits on the number of new cars you could buy this way - was it two or three per year? When I was in it was one per year per entitled person. As spouses are also entitled a married couple could do two per year. They have tightened the rules since and I am not sure of the current entitlement. I see plenty of new RR's and F-Paces on camp which I assume will be turned round ASAP for a small profit. I made a nice wedge on the CLK cabriolet as; 1. It was tax free 2. It was dicounted 3. It was one of the first in the UK.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Mar 30, 2017 12:56:10 GMT
Easiest deal was going through DrivetheDeal to buy the Volvo. Look up the best price, buy it, job done. I've had similar experiences with Audi. When I looked at an Allroad they didn't seem bothered about having my business.
|
|
|
Post by Roadsterstu on Mar 30, 2017 16:50:23 GMT
It's not just buying a car. Local Volvo dealer seem incapable of calling back and the next nearest seems uninterested in replying to my email from last week. Hopeless.
|
|
|
Post by Andy C on Mar 30, 2017 20:33:24 GMT
Is that tollbar ? ^
|
|
|
Post by Roadsterstu on Mar 31, 2017 7:26:39 GMT
TMS. The Polestar Optimisation is looking like it will get done in Bristol, via Elk Performance. There is a logic to that, in that I will combine it with a trip taking Heidi to or from uni in Bath, plus it can be tested up the Fosse Way afterwards. Seeing as the local place simply isn't interested, as well.
|
|