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Post by Big Blue on Jun 10, 2020 12:24:24 GMT
Back on topic: Twitter has exploded in response to Hamilton's latest comments about removing all racist symbols.
Sponsored by Hugo Boss, Puma, Mercedes Benz, UBS - all with varying degrees of unpleasant pasts, one commentator by passes that and asks whether he checks the origins of his diamonds.
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Post by michael on Jun 10, 2020 12:34:59 GMT
The statues should have adopted the same PR as these corporations and donned the gay pride flag and virtue signalled about how inclusive they are to deflect shame. Maybe that's what the traffic cone on the horseman's head in Glasgow is all about?
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 10, 2020 12:37:51 GMT
The statues should have adopted the same PR as these corporations and donned the gay pride flag and virtue signalled about how inclusive they are to deflect shame. Maybe that's what the traffic cone on the horseman's head in Glasgow is all about? Not many more inclusive at the time than slavers: actively keeping non-indigenous people in work.........
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 13:17:14 GMT
Isn't there a statue of Queen Victoria, the Empress of India, in Windsor? Fucking bitch. Oh, hang on, Indians are brown, not black. Do brown lives matter?
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Post by Tim on Jun 10, 2020 13:32:52 GMT
I just had a look at the racist statue website to see if it had changed.
There are a few up here that have been added. Duke of Sutherland, notorious for the Highland clearances but also MAY have been involved with the slave trade.
And in Dundee the "Statue of James Carmichael (1868-1934) who was an engineer, as the plaque says, but was also a colonial administrator and military officer who served in Burma, Aden, Somalia and India. He was appointed head of engineering for the Crown Agents for the Colonies in 1904."
So, now it appears they're looking to remove the statue of anyone who worked 'overseas' during the empire because that clearly makes that individual either a slaver or a racist?
There don't appear to be any contributions from mainland Europe, perhaps it won't let you?
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Post by michael on Jun 10, 2020 13:38:36 GMT
I don't think anything can be added overseas. I'd quite like to add the Pyramids in Egypt as they were built by slaves for their slave owner. Doesn't Fulham have a statue of Michael Jackson? Perhaps he should be removed for the heinous crime of white-face?
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 10, 2020 13:41:05 GMT
And in Dundee the "Statue of James Carmichael (1868-1934) who was an engineer, as the plaque says, but was also a colonial administrator and military officer who served in Burma, Aden, Somalia and India. He was appointed head of engineering for the Crown Agents for the Colonies in 1904."So, now it appears they're looking to remove the statue of anyone who worked 'overseas' during the empire because that clearly makes that individual either a slaver or a racist? Bloody Hell! Now I've got to remove the photos of my dad as well as my grandad! What a family of arseholes I come from.......
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Post by michael on Jun 10, 2020 13:43:46 GMT
Bloody Hell! Now I've got to remove the photos of my dad as well as my grandad! What a family of arseholes I come from....... They'll be so proud of you Someone has carpet bombed the North West with Robert Peel entries as he founded the modern police force.
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Post by Tim on Jun 10, 2020 13:50:12 GMT
Bloody Hell! Now I've got to remove the photos of my dad as well as my grandad! What a family of arseholes I come from....... They'll be so proud of you Someone has carpet bombed the North West with Robert Peel entries as he founded the modern police force.
I saw that. One of the comments is 'I had to endure walking past his statue everyday' (well, I've corrected the grammar there). Hmmm, I bet at the time whoever wrote that didn't know anything about Peel apart from his involvement with the police. Unless of course that statue has a Ready Brek type field that emanates pure racism to the, I assume, black person that made the comment
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 10, 2020 13:58:24 GMT
I just had a look at the racist statue website to see if it had changed. There are a few up here that have been added. Duke of Sutherland, notorious for the Highland clearances but also MAY have been involved with the slave trade. And in Dundee the "Statue of James Carmichael (1868-1934) who was an engineer, as the plaque says, but was also a colonial administrator and military officer who served in Burma, Aden, Somalia and India. He was appointed head of engineering for the Crown Agents for the Colonies in 1904."So, now it appears they're looking to remove the statue of anyone who worked 'overseas' during the empire because that clearly makes that individual either a slaver or a racist? There don't appear to be any contributions from mainland Europe, perhaps it won't let you? I understand they've put a round the clock guard on the Desperate Dan statue in Dundee to protect it from militant vegans and vegetarians.
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Post by scouse on Jun 10, 2020 15:21:31 GMT
The Spectator's Steerpike's tongue in cheek list of statues, street & place names for Khunt to remove:
London's landmarks Downing Street, named after George Downing, who defended from first-hand experience the economics of West-Indian slavery.
Buckingham Palace, built by John Sheffield, Duke of Buckingham and Normanby, and his third wife Catherine Darnley, an illegitimate daughter of James II, a prominent Briton who was the founding governor and largest shareholder of the Royal African Company.
Fitzrovia, this well-heeled district of London celebrates the offspring of Charles II, a prominent Briton of the 17th century and a major investor in his brother’s Royal African Company.
Westminster, this may be a popular London landmark, but it was nevertheless founded by William the Conqueror. Although the Normans gradually reduced slavery in England, the Domesday Book of 1086 reveals that, at the end of his rule, William still presided over a populace where more than one in ten were slaves.
Tower of London, the first stone castle in Britain was erected by the same William. Although for most of its existence it carried out the peaceful business of incarcerating and executing previously free citizens, its origins remain tied to an oppressive, slave-supporting monarch.
Oliver Cromwell, the prominent statue in Parliament Square stands in stark contrast with Cromwell’s expansion of the Irish slave trade.
The British Museum, founded on the basis of the collection of Hans Sloane, who worked as a doctor on a Jamaican plantation before marrying a Jamaican heiress.
Bank of England, the bank has a long and troubled involvement with the slave trade, especially the Society of West Indian Merchants.
Trafalgar Square, is linked to the Trafalgar headland in Spain that saw, and did not obstruct, many slave ships travelling past it to Cadiz, a major port in the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
King’s Place (premises of the Guardian) and King’s Cross, commemorates statue to King George IV, a prominent Briton who continued to oversee slavery in the plantations of the West Indies.
Victoria (region, train station, and underground line), Queen Victoria presided over India, where slavery was not formally outlawed until 1843. Although she formally oversaw that process, her inactivity prior to that speaks volumes.
Queen’s Park Rangers, the name of this football club ultimately commemorates the same Victoria.
Victoria and Albert Museum, named after the imperialist Queen Victoria and her husband, Albert.
Crystal Palace FC, commemorates her husband’s expensive Exhibition of 1851, very probably funded indirectly by the slave trade.
Nelson's column, celebrates Lord Nelson, who opposed the abolition of the slave trade.
William Gladstone, the four-time prime minister may have opposed the slave trade, but his father was a major plantation owner in Jamaica and was compensated by the government after abolition. His statue on the Strand must no longer stand.
Achilles Statue, Hyde Park, this Greek ‘hero’ caused countless deaths in the Trojan War by taking umbrage at having to give up his captive slave Briseis.
Monument, although this huge column primarily commemorates the loss of 70,000 people's homes to the Great Fire of London, its pedestal memorialises several controversial supporters. It records the names of Sir Richard Ford and Sir Robert Viner, both Mayors of London, but both active supporters of the slave trade. More shockingly, the sculpture on its west face depicts Charles II and his problematic brother.
Cleopatra's Needle, this obelisk casts a shadow over the Embankment. Not only was it built by Thutmose III, a slave-owning pharaoh of Egypt, but it was donated to Britain by Muhammad Ali Pasha, ruler of Egypt and Sudan, who enslaved and traded captives throughout his problematic reign.
London, England’s capital city bears all the hallmarks of its problematic origins. Londinium was the name the slave-owning Romans gave to their new city, founded as a major base for their invasion and subsequent oppression of native Britons. Boudica, Queen of the Iceni and keen opponent of slavery, did good work by burning the city to the ground in AD 60, but the Romans had the arrogance to rebuild. Should the capital therefore be renamed?
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Post by scouse on Jun 10, 2020 16:35:13 GMT
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Post by PG on Jun 10, 2020 16:42:53 GMT
The Spectator's Steerpike's tongue in cheek list of statues, street & place names for Khunt to remove:
Tongue in cheek? I bet there are members of his commission that actually want a lot of those on the list for "redesignation".
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 10, 2020 17:38:40 GMT
I understand they've put a round the clock guard on the Desperate Dan statue in Dundee to protect it from militant vegans and vegetarians. Perhaps slightly worryingly, another statue that I have photographed on my travels....
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Post by Boxer6 on Jun 10, 2020 18:07:45 GMT
Whilst they’re not monuments of glory (there are some to whom they are just to prove the point of similarity) they’re still places of education. If a young kid sees a statue of a slaver and looks up who it is they’ll learn about what was right and wrong If they’re never exposed to it they’ll know nothing. Good point except do you think ANY young kids will even notice the statue (in real life, I'm sure they're plastered all over Instagram at the moment) and then take the trouble to look the person up? There's a statue in Glasgow of a guy on horseback. I'm sure everyone who goes past has actually noticed it but not because of who or what it is rather because it always has a traffic cone on the guy's head. I've passed it loads of times and couldn't tell you who it is because I've never stopped to read the inscription. We're very quickly going to get to a point where there are NO statues anywhere because everybody who is idolised (?) will have something in their character or past that another group object to. It won't just be about BLM, it'll be Every LM so each protesting voice will carry the same weight. It's of the Duke of Wellington, Tim.
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Post by scouse on Jun 10, 2020 18:26:09 GMT
Fought in India. Obviously for the chop
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 18:27:00 GMT
The horse is nice, though. Can they be separated?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 19:48:50 GMT
Perhaps, well it is a BLACK horse. Lloyds must be safe then........
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Post by scouse on Jun 10, 2020 19:51:11 GMT
Since he’s in uniform then the horse is probably one of his war mounts, trained to bite and kick those friendly Napoleonist we were so beastly to, so the horse must go as well.
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 10, 2020 21:07:24 GMT
Fought in India. Obviously for the chop Careful, the vegetarians/vegans will be on to you again......
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Post by scouse on Jun 11, 2020 0:47:20 GMT
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Post by Alex on Jun 11, 2020 5:30:55 GMT
You wait till they hear how Scooby Doo kept all those fairground owners from pretending to be phantoms in order to commit insurance fraud.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 11, 2020 6:43:43 GMT
There are calls for James Cook's statue to be taken down in Great Ayton apparently. Where does it end, indeed. Sir Robert Peel, too. That's going to throw police chiefs into a hand-wringing panic.
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 11, 2020 7:03:18 GMT
Robinson Crusoe will be banned.....
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 11, 2020 8:17:45 GMT
On a serious note this is all pretty much guaranteeing Trump a second term in the US and Boris and his pals another turn here.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 11, 2020 8:45:39 GMT
On a serious note this is all pretty much guaranteeing Trump a second term in the US and Boris and his pals another turn here. Yes, because almost nobody seems capable of being sensible about this on either side of the debate. The commentary on both sides has been outright ridiculous. Never have so many pearls been so clutched about so many statues that, I'd wager the majority of people, black or white, previously paid virtually no attention to.
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Post by Tim on Jun 11, 2020 8:53:49 GMT
..... I'd wager the majority of people, black or white, previously paid virtually no attention to. This is being completely ignored. All the teenagers will be fully aware of it now because its on Instagram so they can take offence from the statues without bothering to look up from their phone as they actually walk past it, unless its been geo-tagged in the post and that pops up at the right moment.
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Post by michael on Jun 11, 2020 8:59:57 GMT
On a serious note this is all pretty much guaranteeing Trump a second term in the US and Boris and his pals another turn here. I simply cannot believe how easily people play into Trumps hands, they never learn. What on earth were the democrats thinking with defund the police?
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 11, 2020 9:04:52 GMT
On a serious note this is all pretty much guaranteeing Trump a second term in the US and Boris and his pals another turn here. Yep. Some Russian comedian I follow on Twitter made the point that what follows hand-wringing do-gooders attempting to remove historic monuments that made a country what it is results in nationalists defending those artefacts that they wish to remove. They will be using words like "British", "English", "Heritage" etc. in their groups' names and will be clearly wearing union jacks, St George's crosses in their apparel to make sure that those looking on will see a defence of heritage against those that want to change the nation, whether it's for better or worse. If it continues too long then we end up with a political landscape whereby the best way to win power is through nationalism (there are 10 times more whiteys than black and brownies in the UK) and as that continues the only way to win power over the other nationalist is more and more extreme measures in the manifesto, so ghettoism (although reading the BLM website they seem to support ghettoism for themselves), forced expulsion and legalised persecution - remember no one was murdered in Nazi Germany's KZs as it was all legal there at the time. No one is ever going to eradicate racism, sexism, homophobia and I mean never ever ever. It's already all illegal in the UK and Europe but guess what it's out there. No one in a position of power is going to say they're discriminatory but how do you uncover whether they are or not? If a number of whites are employed or promoted above blacks they can point to the policies that says they treat everyone equally and the interview process showing that they employed the best candidate. The fact that the assessors put the cvs with funny surnames to one side and then interviewed some for effect will never be discovered. What this current activity is doing is bringing more overt racism to the fore, on both sides: don't assume I'm a hideous racist because I'm white, my paternal granfather was a soldier in India and my maternal forefathers were white South Africans. Nobody should be kneeling down for the actions of their forefathers - they should be living their lives inclusively, which surely means recognising differences without wishing to do harm based merely on those differences. All lives matter and maybe BLM needs to address its own house (based on the FBI statistics I posted earlier) before it starts on those just wishing to walk past outside.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 11, 2020 9:24:02 GMT
On a serious note this is all pretty much guaranteeing Trump a second term in the US and Boris and his pals another turn here. I simply cannot believe how easily people play into Trumps hands, they never learn. What on earth were the democrats thinking with defund the police? Arguably Trump is only president because of the continuing failure of the Democrats to get their act together post-Obama. Although he also profits from the fact that the GOP is all over the shop as well, and has completely abased itself at his feet.
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