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Trump.
May 4, 2020 6:21:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 6:21:49 GMT
I think you are missing the real benefit, but in fairness it's pretty easy to miss. Membership of international bodies such as the UN etc is strongly linked to reductions in all forms of state violence* - it doesn't enforce it (if it did, nations wouldn't participate), but behaviour does improve. This might not be perfect, but it's better than non-participation.
*I'd recommend Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature.
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Trump.
May 4, 2020 6:51:49 GMT
Post by racingteatray on May 4, 2020 6:51:49 GMT
Yes, there's a fairly strong correlation between those who act in a bellicose manner and those who object to international bodies. Perhaps for that very reason.
The outlier is China. China, which plays a long game in general, takes a much more subtle and effective route. Rather than whinging about membership or not engaging or threatening to withdraw funding, it just sets about ensuring that it stuffs all these international bodies with as many of its representatives as possible, making them more biddable and less of a threat to its many ambitions.
As someone who isn't Chinese, that worries me.
As a Briton, I regret that Britain, historically possessed of similar ambitions and mastery of the diplomatic arts, never took the same approach with Europe.
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Trump.
May 4, 2020 14:43:48 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 14:43:48 GMT
The thing is with 'news' is that everyone can go find a version of it that they can choose to believe.
One man's news is another man's bullshit.
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Trump.
May 4, 2020 15:22:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 15:22:52 GMT
I've heard that view advanced and there's something to it, but it certainly doesn't justify taking the view that all news 'sources' are equally reliable.
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Trump.
May 4, 2020 15:41:03 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 4, 2020 15:41:03 GMT
I've heard that view advanced and there's something to it, but it certainly doesn't justify taking the view that all news 'sources' are equally reliable. I start from the premise of them all being equally unreliable and then move them up or down based on their track record going forward.
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Trump.
May 4, 2020 17:44:21 GMT
Post by racingteatray on May 4, 2020 17:44:21 GMT
I've heard that view advanced and there's something to it, but it certainly doesn't justify taking the view that all news 'sources' are equally reliable. I start from the premise of them all being equally unreliable and then move them up or down based on their track record going forward. Very sensible!
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Trump.
May 4, 2020 18:11:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by michael on May 4, 2020 18:11:30 GMT
I suspect the arguments here are the same his opponents will make and in doing so fall head first into the bear trap that has been set.
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Post by Big Blue on May 4, 2020 21:38:49 GMT
News as forwarded by the media is only what the writers are interested in telling you. So the Telegraph tells us "we must get back to work to get the proles to pay tax on every day items to recover from this shit so that luxury goods aren't taxed too highly"; the Mirror tells us "going back to work is designed by the right to kill off union members by forcing them to catch Covid 19"; the Sun tells us "Hero Boris fought Covid 19 dragon off with a sword on St George's Day"; the Guardian tells us "Fewer cars means our kale will taste better"; ITV tells us "nurses stay strong whilst having to miss Piers Morgan due to looking after sick people"; the BBC tells us "Brexit steams ahead regardless of death"; and the Mail tells us "Meghan is a miserable c*nt and we'll keep publishing stuff about her whether you're interested or not."
I can't wait to retire and disappear into some insular world of biscuits, old movies, old books and classic motor racing streams.
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Trump.
May 4, 2020 22:05:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 22:05:54 GMT
That last bit sounds like perfection far too much crapola from those with the biggest yaps.
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Trump.
May 6, 2020 9:30:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by franki68 on May 6, 2020 9:30:31 GMT
Hate to say it but he is right about the UN,one look at who is on their human rights council tells you everything you need to know . A ridiculously corrupt organisation heavily dominated by voting blocks ,lost credibility decades ago.
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Trump.
May 6, 2020 9:43:30 GMT
Post by michael on May 6, 2020 9:43:30 GMT
He's right on WHO too but people jump to its defence without a second thought. They're not so much defending these organisations as much as they are building a campaign narrative for Trump.
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Trump.
May 6, 2020 9:51:34 GMT
Post by racingteatray on May 6, 2020 9:51:34 GMT
The criticism is not unmerited but his solution is utterly wrong in my view. It's all about non-constructive criticism with him.
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Trump.
May 6, 2020 10:27:28 GMT
Post by michael on May 6, 2020 10:27:28 GMT
It may well be but feeding the debate only serves his agenda. The Democrats have never had a better opportunity to capitalise on his failures and they're falling into the same old traps. If he wins again it will be down to their failure rather than his success.
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Trump.
May 6, 2020 14:15:10 GMT
Post by Tim on May 6, 2020 14:15:10 GMT
I think the political system has completely failed to come to terms with Trump and his ways and methods despite having had nearly 4 years.
Whenever he says something blatantly wrong they appear to go away, think about it and come back with something a couple of days later. By which time he's moved on through 4 or 5 different subjects with a whole load more of (possibly, who can tell) lies. They are completely unable to deal with it and the Republicans must be breathing a sigh of relief that he's on their side. If it all goes tits up at some point they can pin all the blame on him and even if it blows up in their faces they'll still be a few years and a few $million better off.
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Trump.
May 6, 2020 15:50:31 GMT
Post by racingteatray on May 6, 2020 15:50:31 GMT
It may well be but feeding the debate only serves his agenda. The Democrats have never had a better opportunity to capitalise on his failures and they're falling into the same old traps. If he wins again it will be down to their failure rather than his success. Oh, on that I could not agree more.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 9:17:31 GMT
Post by johnc on May 7, 2020 9:17:31 GMT
It may well be but feeding the debate only serves his agenda. The Democrats have never had a better opportunity to capitalise on his failures and they're falling into the same old traps. If he wins again it will be down to their failure rather than his success. Oh, on that I could not agree more. Isn't it amazing how Politicians of all parties in all countries seem to display the same level of complete ineptitude and incompetency. I think the fruit cake extremes in all parties end up with much too much influence and as a consequence their leaders tend to be potentially the worst of all options.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 11:15:42 GMT
Post by Tim on May 7, 2020 11:15:42 GMT
Well the latest from the Great Orange One is
"We went through the worst attack we've ever had on our country, this is worst attack we've ever had.
"This is worse than Pearl Harbor, this is worse than the World Trade Center. There's never been an attack like this"
Hmmm, while less people died in those individual attacks I think the consequences were rather further reaching than the virus!
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 11:23:42 GMT
Post by michael on May 7, 2020 11:23:42 GMT
I think the consequences were rather further reaching than the virus! Really? Global depression and escalating tensions between the worlds only superpowers? I don't think we've even started to experience the consequences of this.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 11:26:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by ChrisM on May 7, 2020 11:26:47 GMT
I think the consequences were rather further reaching than the virus! Really? Global depression and escalating tensions between the worlds only superpowers? I don't think we've even started to experience the consequences of this. +1
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 12:01:32 GMT
Post by Tim on May 7, 2020 12:01:32 GMT
I know that WW2 was already on the go when Pearl Harbor happened but it escalated it significantly leading to millions of additional deaths. Do you really think something like that will come from coronavirus?
I agree that there are already heightened tensions but I just don't see the virus being the catalyst to something that costs millions of lives.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 12:15:38 GMT
Post by johnc on May 7, 2020 12:15:38 GMT
Trump is a master of finding someone else to blame for anything that goes wrong: it's never his fault. In the workplace people like that get managed out the door or get isolated in a corner. Unfortunately unless the American electorate see through the smokescreen, this virus is going to remain the fault of the Chinese and it will give POTUS even more excuses to continue the aggressive behaviour. Bring on the US/UK trade talks!
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Post by PG on May 7, 2020 12:43:24 GMT
.. unless the American electorate see through the smokescreen, this virus is going to remain the fault of the Chinese.. Surely, it is the fault of the Chinese? I'm not aware of any wet markets in the US or Europe selling under-cooked bats. The thing with Trump is that sometimes the message has some merit - like NATO contributions, Chinese trade practices and now whose fault Covid-19 is. But the method of delivery sucks.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 13:42:59 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 13:42:59 GMT
You might want to take a look at what the chinese are doing 'over there' in the pacific and the china sea region. Firing lasers at military aircraft belonging to the USA and Australia. Firing on and ramming of philippino and other nation fishing vessels and transforming atolls into military bases. It's a regional grab of epic proportions and they are shaping up for a fight. The US is unable to deal with the growth of the prc and playing catchup while sending ships and aircraft into the area to make the chinese blink first. Likely do you think?
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 14:37:21 GMT
Post by Tim on May 7, 2020 14:37:21 GMT
I know all that's going on and I am concerned about it.
Having said that I think the US are perhaps going through something similar to what the UK experienced in the late '40s when the Empire dissolved itself. We went from being a world leader to perhaps being just another country and I can see its taking some of our population a long time to recover.
Being simplistic about this (my preferred method) you have to think that in a normal world the US wouldn't be trying to retain power in an area so far away from its own borders, on the one hand Trump wants them to stop being the Global Policeman but on the other he continues with their policy of being involved in several far, far away lands.
I grudgingly admire what he's achieved. I don't think he's clever in an academic sense but one way or another he's managed to do very well for himself.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 15:01:40 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 7, 2020 15:01:40 GMT
I know all that's going on and I am concerned about it. Having said that I think the US are perhaps going through something similar to what the UK experienced in the late '40s when the Empire dissolved itself. We went from being a world leader to perhaps being just another country and I can see its taking some of our population a long time to recover. Being simplistic about this (my preferred method) you have to think that in a normal world the US wouldn't be trying to retain power in an area so far away from its own borders, on the one hand Trump wants them to stop being the Global Policeman but on the other he continues with their policy of being involved in several far, far away lands.I grudgingly admire what he's achieved. I don't think he's clever in an academic sense but one way or another he's managed to do very well for himself. The problem is, little by little, the Chinese are trying to establish themselves as the no.1 power in the Asia Pacific region. Taking parts of the South China Sea is one thing but this will creep and creep as they test the US more and more. The first big moment will be the full integration of Hong Kong into Mainland China, followed by the annexation of Taiwan. Taiwan is quite well defended but without US support it will fall, throw in a bit of support to North Korea and you could see the US trying to defend both Taiwan and South Korea. Throw in China's desire to avenge their defeat in Vietnam in the 70s and all of a sudden you have Japan looking a bit isolated. And the Chinese hate the Japanese.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 15:12:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 15:12:15 GMT
Technically they won in Vietnam but lost in Korea, quite badly considering how much they lost in terms of soldiers, pilots, aircraft and tanks etc. Not to mention he financial cost of the whole match.
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Trump.
May 7, 2020 20:13:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by Alex on May 7, 2020 20:13:34 GMT
Will they also want to avenge the treatment they received from the Japanese in the 1930s which was almost as brutal as the treatment Eastern Europe received from Nazi Germany and in many ways, the Holocaust aside, was worse.
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Trump.
Aug 20, 2020 13:52:30 GMT
Post by Tim on Aug 20, 2020 13:52:30 GMT
I can't help myself but watch the Trump Show more often than is healthy. Last night was another classic episode where he boasted that he was extremely popular among Goodyear employees and then in the next sentence exhorted his followers to boycott Goodyear products (proudly made in the USA!) which, if followed, will lead to a chunk of those devoted Goodyear employees losing their jobs. I'm worried what'll happen if/when he gets voted out, I'll have to go back to watching more mundane TV output, talk to Mrs Tim or do something exceptional like wash the cars more often. Late evenings just won't be the same. 4 more years, I say
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Trump.
Aug 20, 2020 13:59:04 GMT
Post by michael on Aug 20, 2020 13:59:04 GMT
I'm worried what'll happen if/when he gets voted out... So am I but more in the sense of will he go peacefully?
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Trump.
Aug 20, 2020 14:04:15 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 20, 2020 14:04:15 GMT
I can't help myself but watch the Trump Show more often than is healthy. Last night was another classic episode where he boasted that he was extremely popular among Goodyear employees and then in the next sentence exhorted his followers to boycott Goodyear products (proudly made in the USA!) which, if followed, will lead to a chunk of those devoted Goodyear employees losing their jobs. I'm worried what'll happen if/when he gets voted out, I'll have to go back to watching more mundane TV output, talk to Mrs Tim or do something exceptional like wash the cars more often. Late evenings just won't be the same. 4 more years, I say The only other US Brand of tyres is Dunlop, which is owned by Goodyear... Apparently he wants the tyres on "The Beast", the Presidential limo, changing from Goodyear now. I wonder how much 4 custom size, bullet & bomb proof Michelins are from Kwik Fit? And can they do it while he waits?
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