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Post by Tim on Jun 8, 2017 11:48:30 GMT
Most of the stuff that has come through our door leads with the 'don't vote for them because...' sentiment. It's poor, maybe I shouldn't vote for candidate/party X but you need to tell me why you're so much better. They've simply not done that this time (unless its on the reverse/inside of the pamphlet as I never get that far .
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Post by johnc on Jun 8, 2017 12:13:16 GMT
And my Facebook feed is full of true-blues posting attack ads against Corbyn rather than saying anything meaningful about what their party would do. Lazy knee-jerk partisanship is something I don't tolerate from either side, but I seem to be in the minority as usual. I think one thing we can all agree on is we can be glad when it's over. And my Facebook is full of so many Nationalist rants pointing out how everyone else is scum and how the sun will always shine and the money will be flowing down the streets when they get their freedom. However one acquaintance posted that he had to cease making any political comments on Facebook or he would be out of a job, so some of the poison has disappeared.
I will be seriously glad when this is over. I can see where political apathy comes from when you feel you are just getting a beating every day from a bunch of numpties.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 12:21:58 GMT
Looney Leftie Corbyn, no thanks. U turn Tories, no thanks. Brexit reversing Lib Dems, no thanks.
I'm not bothering. None of the parties have manifesto items that I look at and think 'Oh yeah, I like the look of that'. I'll be getting shafted every which way as usual whichever party gets in because I'm a heterosexual working British white man of no religious affiliation who dares to own his own home and car. Taxed to bleeding point and then salt thrown on me at every opportunity after that. I'm especially looking forward to the new old age care rules the Tories are bringing in. They'll fuck everyone over who has managed to gain anything meaningful over their lifetime. Forget your inheritance, you'll be using all that to pay for your parents care home bills...
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 8, 2017 13:40:52 GMT
My biggest issue is social media, whether it's my own rantings or those of others. Looking at some of the discussion threads by leftists makes you certain that you do not want to vote that way for fear of being associated with them and likewise for the rightists. The lazy examples are, as Racing suggests, are factoids and figures about how much harm will befall the nation if Corbyn's plans are enacted and we start spending money on every drop-out cause in the country at a phenomenal rate on one side and how the Tory's will take your house away as soon as you need any form of social care to pay for it.
But it's this stuff that get's me: debates about fox-hunting returning under the Tories. Is that how relevant peoples own lives are that this is a major issue for them? My own local candidates, all of them, coming out in favour of saving the local Hospital which should have been razed to the ground in the '80s, if not earlier, simply to gain local votes. They must all know it's not financially viable and that some wider-ranging alternative involving selling three small plots and building a fuck-off large facility and spending more on fast-response is better but they can't be the first to state that.
I've been out and voted but I had a last minute check on the policy beliefs of the three main candidates (the 4th is some insignificant party related to Christianity) and struggled to come to terms with liking any of them on a local, national and personal basis. Hobson looks like winning this election by a landslide for they have the boxes with the most chance of being the Choice.!
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Post by franki68 on Jun 8, 2017 13:42:12 GMT
I feel like its a choice between gonorrhea or syphilis .
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Post by Tim on Jun 8, 2017 14:18:26 GMT
But it's this stuff that get's me: debates about fox-hunting returning under the Tories. Is that how relevant peoples own lives are that this is a major issue for them?
Sadly this sort of thing takes on a massive significance for a lot of people. I think one of the first post-Devolution issues that was debated - at great length - in the Scottish Parliament was Clause 28 (the approach to covering homosexuality in schools). A reasonably important thing in general but not, in my opinion, worthy of holding up other things for several months in a new parliament.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 15:18:19 GMT
The big issue for me is the requirement that an MP represents ALL of the constituents. Apparently this is NOT the case now. According to the Tory Leadership when I asked a while ago, "An MP can refuse to represent a constituent if he/she feels it is not in their onw interests to do so". Last time I spoke to a Labour MP, he told me he HAD to represent all CONSTITUENTS. When I spoke to the local Tory candidate, he told me he agreed with having to represent ALL of us. Basically I voted for the candidate rather than the party but tbh, there is only one party with semi-sensible ideas and it is NOT limp-damps, Labour or the Green partlies.
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Post by PG on Jun 8, 2017 15:24:11 GMT
But it's this stuff that get's me: debates about fox-hunting returning under the Tories. Is that how relevant peoples own lives are that this is a major issue for them?
Sadly this sort of thing takes on a massive significance for a lot of people. I think one of the first post-Devolution issues that was debated - at great length - in the Scottish Parliament was Clause 28 (the approach to covering homosexuality in schools). A reasonably important thing in general but not, in my opinion, worthy of holding up other things for several months in a new parliament.
I think there is some named management thesis on this, but I can't for the life of me remember what the name is. Basically, it states that as people are incapable (or unwilling) of solving the big or real issues, they spend ages and huge amounts of effort debating and trying to solve the minute issues that really don't matter.
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 8, 2017 15:34:21 GMT
Sadly this sort of thing takes on a massive significance for a lot of people. I think one of the first post-Devolution issues that was debated - at great length - in the Scottish Parliament was Clause 28 (the approach to covering homosexuality in schools). A reasonably important thing in general but not, in my opinion, worthy of holding up other things for several months in a new parliament.
I think there is some named management thesis on this, but I can't for the life of me remember what the name is. Basically, it states that as people are incapable (or unwilling) of solving the big or real issues, they spend ages and huge amounts of effort debating and trying to solve the minute issues that really don't matter. The theory of running from the big stuff by pretending that mending the all the little stuff will have the same overall effect. Procrastinationism?
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Post by Tim on Jun 8, 2017 15:41:33 GMT
The big issue for me is the requirement that an MP represents ALL of the constituents. Apparently this is NOT the case now. According to the Tory Leadership when I asked a while ago, "An MP can refuse to represent a constituent if he/she feels it is not in their onw interests to do so". Last time I spoke to a Labour MP, he told me he HAD to represent all CONSTITUENTS. When I spoke to the local Tory candidate, he told me he agreed with having to represent ALL of us. Basically I voted for the candidate rather than the party but tbh, there is only one party with semi-sensible ideas and it is NOT limp-damps, Labour or the Green partlies.
See that's the problem now, to me. They all (well, mostly) vote along party lines because they're career politicians and apparently fail to properly represent the constituents, despite those people paying their salary.
Surely that's what's wrong with politics?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 15:43:32 GMT
And my Facebook feed is full of true-blues posting attack ads against Corbyn rather than saying anything meaningful about what their party would do. Lazy knee-jerk partisanship is something I don't tolerate from either side, but I seem to be in the minority as usual. I am with you on this, there has been far too much crap and far too little real information about HOW each party is thinks they will achieve their stated goals. Time to educate the public rather than just have a bun fight over personalities and suggestions of policies. After all, we all know these have no chance of making it through the election process as we have heard it all before.
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Post by grampa on Jun 8, 2017 16:45:56 GMT
Most of the stuff that has come through our door leads with the 'don't vote for them because...' sentiment. It's poor, maybe I shouldn't vote for candidate/party X but you need to tell me why you're so much better. They've simply not done that this time (unless its on the reverse/inside of the pamphlet as I never get that far . Been the case in our constituency too - Labour posters proclaiming 'Only Labour can keep the Tories out' - I don't want to vote to keep someone out thanks, I want to vote to keep/put someone in. Still as lost as ever though and will be going to vote in about an hour's time - I think I'll go for voting our existing MP to stay as I previously posted on the basis that he seems to do a lot for local people (in some discussions with him I get the impression he really doesn't agree with what a lot of his leadership is doing - must be very difficult for an MP to see their leadership change in a direction they don't like, plus he's in the rather strange position of being of the party in UK government yet being in opposition to the party in government in Wales) and then I will just watch who gets in with interest - I honestly don't think I will have any feelings but equal despair either way, so I don't feel like I'm rooting for one or the other at all.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 8, 2017 20:09:54 GMT
Took FB Junior into the voting booth with me today to show him how democracy works - didn't discuss the candidates specifically as you aren't allowed to but I had done before. I took Evan to show him for the first time. Tonight when going to his swimming lesson at the leisure centre, he saw the sports hall all set up for the count, so I explained that too. I stopped short of telling him what the potential awful outcomes might be!
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Post by michael on Jun 8, 2017 20:17:19 GMT
Took FB Junior into the voting booth with me today to show him how democracy works - didn't discuss the candidates specifically as you aren't allowed to but I had done before. I took Evan to show him for the first time. Tonight when going to his swimming lesson at the leisure centre, he saw the sports hall all set up for the count, so I explained that too. I stopped short of telling him what the potential awful outcomes might be! You probably should have told him about the outcomes. He's going to be paying for it after all.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 8, 2017 20:21:38 GMT
I will tell him over breakfast tomorrow. "Well, lad, that's your future fucked."
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Post by michael on Jun 8, 2017 21:08:29 GMT
If the exit poll is right we all will. Clusterfuck.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 8, 2017 21:18:53 GMT
Oh heck
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 8, 2017 21:19:30 GMT
It was always going to be one of those situations where we are fucked either way. Disastrous.
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 8, 2017 21:25:31 GMT
Exit polls are shite. Tory voters are highly reticent to tell pollsters anything.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 8, 2017 21:31:46 GMT
Exit polls are shite. Tory voters are highly reticent to tell pollsters anything. True. I remember watching the 1992 election predicting a hung Parliament that resulted in a landslide.
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Post by michael on Jun 8, 2017 21:34:57 GMT
I admire your optimism. We're looking at barn conversations in Switzerland here.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 8, 2017 21:36:38 GMT
I admire your optimism. We're looking at barn conversations in Switzerland here. We have friends in Vancouver. Right now I'm wondering if a tent in their garden might suit us.
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Post by michael on Jun 8, 2017 21:46:03 GMT
The UK is basically ungovernable if things are right so expect an election soon. This is a disaster for Labour as the hard left now has hold.
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Post by Alex on Jun 8, 2017 22:20:50 GMT
Might make May one of the shortest serving PM's in living memory even if the Tories manage to stay in power. She'll surely be asked to stand down as leader after this.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 8, 2017 23:00:30 GMT
I am enjoying Channel 4's alternative election coverage. Go David Mitchell!!
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 9, 2017 0:18:03 GMT
Might make May one of the shortest serving PM's in living memory even if the Tories manage to stay in power. She'll surely be asked to stand down as leader after this. You don't get any Bluer than the changing rooms at the RAC and yesterday the conversation was about her failures. Not the party as a whole: her. Yes I think she'll be challenged before long if she doesn't offer it up herself.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 9, 2017 0:25:29 GMT
I was there yesterday too - albeit in the Long Bar rather than the changing rooms. Gorgeous Alfa 8C 2300 in the lobby.
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Post by michael on Jun 9, 2017 1:16:19 GMT
Utter disaster for the country. Terrifying that the population see Corbyn as a leader.
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Post by michael on Jun 9, 2017 4:46:06 GMT
Having come to terms with it (just about) I have to agree with you. I thought she was the least worst and she will own the result. I hope now this buys a pause in Brexit and other things but that's probably unrealistic. I'm gutted Corbyn remains, that's a shocking reflection of the U.K.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 9, 2017 5:51:19 GMT
It's not just a shocking reflection of Britain but also a shocking indictment of (the lack of quality of) our political class.
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