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Post by alf on May 29, 2018 15:44:08 GMT
Try as I might, I'm struggling to get excited enough about the thought of spending around £15k of my hard-earned for a car that's basically the same as mine but with slightly different front lights. That said, mine is feeling a tad baggy and has some pricey servicing looming, plus I have an inclination to do something just because I've saved the money and don't wish to see it blown on a bigger house or some nonsense like that :-) There are however some very recent/low miles ones are coming up, and I'm even over my dislike of either white or black (a good job as for most of this list they are the two most common colours!). This one is nice with black, not red, leather, low miles, dealer sale (so 2 year's warranty worth well over £2k) and silver wheels, plus in the pictires it actually looks barely used especially inside, a lot I have looked at of all marques have plenty of wear and tear visible even in shite photos: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805096323000XE V6S I can see as a bargain one day, but I'd want the newer 380PS one and currently only the earliest ones are coming up to 3 years old, I think they'll hold value quite poorly over the next few years - and there are plenty about, to my surprise. A possible future car (as is the similarly not that exciting 340i) if I was looking to spend less, on purchase and running costs, in the future. I want something with 4 doors and space for 4 adults, that feels special and has a great interior. I also want RWD and a V8 of the naughty not quiet variety. M6 GC's are nowhere near my £30k budget yet and seem very rare, the DCT (which would also be an M6 issue) and an ongoing dislike of BMW interiors is putting me off the M5. So I have to say I'm coming back towards a Mercedes product. E63's can be decent value (and I can handle the common cream leather as it's seats only not the whole dash/headlining etc) and while the older style interior is a button fest it's also well screwed together and feels noticeably plusher than even the new shape C63, which is still generally £35k+ for a pretty dull looking example at present. They also generally topped the "daily useable" super saloon test tables around the age of the ones I am looking at. This is a good one: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803164635627However.... I still dislike them from the side and rear, both the saloons and wagons. Which brought me back to PetrolEd's suggestion of a CLS63AMG. I used to passenger in one of this age, I really liked the spacious yet coupe-like interior, and I did not realise that the CLS63 was a £90k car and has some pretty serious kit levels and good reviews as a refined GT that also handles. The one Ed linked to before is the best value currently and also has voodoo cruise though not cooled seats: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712021748808But I also like the while ones (sorry!) as long as they are "Diamond" white, which is a very pearlescent white that looks a bit cream in some lights, a colour I have always liked on things like 147GTA's, this one looks good value (though with both these cars library photos are a better bet as they are poorly pictured). There is less drop off in price with age for these, with 2011 cars asking £26k+ for sub 40ki mileage, so it makes sense in my book to spend a tad more on the above, but white will show dirt a lot less: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711271627859And finally two for people to vent about, actually I quite like these with dark wheels, the matt grey one is wrapped but looks quite on-vogue, and underneath it's back so the wrap can be removed to hopefully pristine paint if needed. The first of these has cooled seats, my highest-prized option, I can tell from the pics (not the typically useless wording): www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805086290468www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804115458667Thoughts appreciated as ever! |
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Post by alf on May 29, 2018 15:56:43 GMT
Also here is a video of the 5.5 bitburbo AMG V8 as in the E63 / CLS63's I'm looking at, vs the newer 4.0. The 4.0 sounds just as good - possibly better - inside, but the 5.5 sounds a lot more natural to me overall. It lacks the pops and bangs of the new unit which is a very good thing in my book!
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Post by Martin on May 29, 2018 16:30:05 GMT
My thoughts.....
1) You need to stop thinking and start driving! You’ll never figure out the answer without some proper length test drives.
2) Don’t buy a decent size saloon in white
3) I agree with you on the daft exhaust noises
4) Make sure you have as lengthy as possible test drive in a Mercedes, not sure how tall you are but the seats in the standard CLS are very low (no shoulder support for me) and seat comfort in general has been disappointing in every Mercedes I’ve tried recently, even the S Class.
5) You’re right to spend your hard saved money on a new car rather than let it be spent elsewhere!
edit: Out of all the links, I think the E63 Saloon looks the best/nicest/smartest
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Post by alf on May 29, 2018 17:06:19 GMT
I know what you mean on the driving, but obviously the XFR is the same as mine with 2 more speeds, I can lurk on that one! The remainder are scattered around 90m+ drives from here so hard to see when all my free time is committed, and a lot of my meetings in Berlin currently, not in the UK. On Monday I'm driving west of Birmingham before going back to Germany for the rest of the week so might be able to fit some stuff in between that meeting finishing and being back here for Cubs - little of my time is mine presently!
Honestly, I don't think test drives would tell me that much besides whether they are as easy to get in and drive as the XFR, and obviously poking around one gives me a feeling for the looks/interior. That's why I read a lot of reviews and look at a lot of pictures to see if they might be my thing. I've done some longish journeys in the passenger seat of a CLS and liked it a lot, for a skinny short arse like me the wrap-around feeling leaves me feeling less like a 12 year old stealing my dad's car than in some Germans!
I reckon I'll short list a handful (that's my list above for now) then buy one of the first ones I see if I "get the feeling" driving it, and also it has no glaring issues... That's my way, and I appreciate does not work for many! And if buying new I'd go for longer tests as well as I'm wasting more money...
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Post by Martin on May 29, 2018 17:45:15 GMT
Fair enough.
Any reason an M5 isn’t on the list? £30k would get you into a late 2013 or 2014 facelift model, more modern/up to date than the Mercedes options and better looking too (imo)
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Post by PG on May 29, 2018 21:03:34 GMT
The XFR in white looks OK as it has the black pack and silver wheels. That makes a big difference externally.
On the Mercs, I prefer the CLS to the E. I know I may get flamed, but to me the E Class saloon says "taxi" or "middle aged businessman". OK, yes the E63 has that engine. So it is really just a very fast taxi... An E63 estate is a different matter.
If you want a change way from an XFR, and want a saloon, I think the black CLS looks the best. I have never driven one so that is based purely on looks v an E class saloon.
But none of these Mercs are a Jaaag are they?
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Post by PetrolEd on May 30, 2018 10:36:12 GMT
I would go for the best CLS I could justify but you can't deny the value of the E class. The XE Jag just isn't on the same page and the XFR you've done already but again can't argue on the great value they represent but would struggle with white.
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Post by Alex on May 31, 2018 10:45:23 GMT
Regarding the XE V6S you said earlier models were not the 380ps model you wanted but do they lack anything else? If not could you get an earlier model and have it chipped?
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Post by alf on May 31, 2018 17:18:08 GMT
Some exceedingly nice old shape C63's out there as well in budget at low miles around 2013 vintage. This one is bloody lovely, I like cream leather as long as it does not mean cream headlining and dash undersides and so on - in a black car (with the right wheels, and the performance pack, though the latter may trash the ride) this looks lovely and for sure would be a safe place for my money now I do fewer miles (sub 15k now). If this one's around in a week's time when I'm back from Germany I'm seeing it: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805186643301I can also get a ride/advice on the C63 from none other than Paul Ripley, who I was just on the phone to (we do business with his new company) - and that man can drive! He has a mint C63 of this vintage tucked away... I'll basically have a poke around the CLS. E, and C 63 of 2013 era and see what I think, while keeping an eye on XFR's too, because my current car keeps reminding me that it dopes everything I want from a car! |
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Post by johnc on May 31, 2018 18:01:23 GMT
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Post by Martin on May 31, 2018 18:58:24 GMT
I really like the Blue M6 John.
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Post by PG on Jun 1, 2018 8:25:08 GMT
I really like the Blue M6 John. Agreed. Much nicer than the red one. Red with the pale interior does nothing for the 6GC shape or interior. |
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Post by alf on Jun 1, 2018 8:48:53 GMT
Nice M6 GC’s John - but very much next time around on the price front for me... A lot of car buying is pure “want” factor for me and these are very nice.
New shape C63’s may drop into budget but most of the cheaper ones look quite dull presently, plus im sure to own a car with that engine at some point! Something with the 6.3 NA or 5.5 would be interesting as a conparison. After all, none of these decisions are forever and i have always wanted to try a Merc...
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 1, 2018 12:32:09 GMT
Stop the tyre kicking and get what you want. This ain't no dress rehearsal etc etc.
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Post by franki68 on Jun 1, 2018 15:04:46 GMT
I looked at amg’s For several years ,definitely the pick of the bunch for me was the e63 with the 6.3 engine ,the 5.5 engine is not as good and the extra torque the 5.5s have means you get more electronic interference from traction control .I also thought the steering much better .
The c63 cars interior quality is poor compared to the e class as well I seem to recall.
They are all fun though.
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Post by johnc on Jun 4, 2018 18:02:17 GMT
I really like the Blue M6 John. Just found out it has the 5 year service pack, so 3 years more servicing for free! |
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Post by Andy C on Jun 4, 2018 18:37:09 GMT
I looked at amg’s For several years ,definitely the pick of the bunch for me was the e63 with the 6.3 engine ,the 5.5 engine is not as good and the extra torque the 5.5s have means you get more electronic interference from traction control .I also thought the steering much better . The c63 cars interior quality is poor compared to the e class as well I seem to recall. They are all fun though. Have you tried the 4.0 in the new c63? |
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Post by Martin on Jun 4, 2018 18:37:45 GMT
I really like the Blue M6 John. Just found out it has the 5 year service pack, so 3 years more servicing for free! When are you picking it up? |
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Post by johnc on Jun 4, 2018 19:11:13 GMT
Just found out it has the 5 year service pack, so 3 years more servicing for free! When are you picking it up? Possibly the weekend but my wife is unconvinced (yet) |
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Post by johnc on Jun 4, 2018 19:24:32 GMT
Have you tried the 4.0 in the new c63? I have in several forms from c465hp in the C63, over 500 in the C63S and c580hp in the E63.
The engine is definitely better as you go up the power and in the E63 it feels as though it has no lag at all: it is very hard to drive smoothly in the Sport settings because the throttle is always on a knife edge. Delightfully brutal but perhaps a bit difficult to get on with on the road if you just want to go from A to B. Both the C63 and C63S can feel slightly (very much a relative term) slow to pick up but I worked out that it was actually the traction control keeping things in check. In the looser settings there wasn't the same initial throttle delay but there was instead a bit of a slide. The engine is very impressive in both sound and strength. As an aural experience it is much better than the M4 which just doesn't satisfy in the way that 8 cylinders can but it isn't any faster in a straight line and despite the M4's known traction issues, I think the Merc has the potential to create more problems for the heavy footed.
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Post by franki68 on Jun 5, 2018 8:05:12 GMT
I looked at amg’s For several years ,definitely the pick of the bunch for me was the e63 with the 6.3 engine ,the 5.5 engine is not as good and the extra torque the 5.5s have means you get more electronic interference from traction control .I also thought the steering much better . The c63 cars interior quality is poor compared to the e class as well I seem to recall. They are all fun though. Have you tried the 4.0 in the new c63? I tried it in the amg gt, a car I wanted to love but actually thought was crap. |
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Post by alf on Jun 11, 2018 13:45:13 GMT
Possibly the weekend but my wife is unconvinced (yet) Any progress there John? I'm finding fewer cars coming up, and I'm 50/50 between just keeping my car until the end of next winter (given I have winter tyres ready and seem to have more little knocks and so on in the winter, plus it will be over 100k by then) and buying one of these. This in in order of preference, the first two are far more likely partly as Mrs ALF is 100% behind another XFR and things these Mercs are for retired porn stars (and I'm not yet in retirement) and partly because the C63 may be a future classic but it is not nearly as comfortable riding a car as the XFR (important to me) and the E63 is just ugly. I far prefer this black on black one to the others, but it is still an unremarkable looking car, whereas the XFR is a lovely looking car. However, the XFR I already have is just as lovely looking, and better equipped, so I may well just keep it until I can get something like the new shape C63 estate, or Alfa QF, or (recent addition!) even an F type coupe S, all of which are "signed off" but far too much money currently. I have had to drop my aversion to white or black since around half of new cars are in that colour! And very strangely I have decided I can accept black wheels on black cars, and actively prefer light leather on black cars as long as it is not a total white-off in there... Many of these cars look best in black, it's just a difficult one to keep clean. Anyway, my diary for the next few weeks is miles less busy, I'll start viewing and either buy something or stop looking and shut up about it! www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805176604972www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805096323000www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710059994458www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805186643301 |
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 12, 2018 12:22:24 GMT
.....but it is still an unremarkable looking car, whereas the XFR is a lovely looking car. If you want a lovely-looking car, I think you had best stick with Jaguar.
(IMHO, of course.... nobody quite does understated elegance in a car like Jag do)
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Post by johnc on Jun 12, 2018 14:32:44 GMT
Possibly the weekend but my wife is unconvinced (yet) Any progress there John? Not entirely. I went and drove an M6 GC which was being sold locally and loved much about it. The driver's seat is a lovely place to sit with the dash wrapping itself around you. The DCT box takes a bit of getting used to but in the 6 series the car has an auto handbrake which makes life a bit easier than the likes of the M4 which still has a manual handbrake lever. The car rides a good bit better than an M4 but can still crash a bit on poor surfaces - that surprised me a bit because I assumed that anything 5 mtrs long was going to be compliant. The performance is immense and it could take you to jail in seconds but on the roads I was on you always felt that this was a big car but it isn't as massive as 5 metres would suggest, it is just you feel the weight every time you try to slow down. My biggest issue is that I am not sure I would have a lot of fun in it without putting myself in licence losing territory. It is a superb piece of machinery with a turn of speed that is a bit other worldly: I'd feel confident to be up against almost anything in a straight line. On the motorway from 50mph, flat in 3rd, it chirped its rear tyres and the acceleration built so strongly the car could have been way into 3 figures without any let up in acceleration.
I am still a bit smitten but everyday driving, low 20's to the gallon and few opportunities to get any enjoyment payback make me feel it might be a bit too big and powerful to exploit.
My wife made it clear she prefers the C63 but as I pointed out, a C63 is £10K - £12K more expensive than the M6 I was looking at and a good £3K to £4K more than an equivalent M4.
I am going ion holiday in 2 weeks so this might need to wait.
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Post by Eff One on Jun 13, 2018 9:33:15 GMT
Or go racing instead.
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Post by johnc on Jun 13, 2018 9:44:19 GMT
My daughter suggested that we move to a house just up the road which is for sale and has a massive garage - she said I could keep my Caterham in there! Maybe not such a daft idea. |
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Post by PG on Jun 13, 2018 12:34:34 GMT
My daughter suggested that we move to a house just up the road which is for sale and has a massive garage - she said I could keep my Caterham in there! Maybe not such a daft idea. Getting your daughter on side - very clever move. ;-) |
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Post by alf on Jun 14, 2018 10:30:23 GMT
I'm getting back towards a place where I could consider a trackday toy again in the not too distant future - probably not racing, which is another whole level of cost/risk/effort. It even makes decent financial sense since the toys depreciate so slowly, and less budget spent on the daily driver means less depreciation there too. Just a shame how incredibly expensive anything suitable is!
Another bonus (for the wife sell) is that a second car can be easily turned back to cash, whereas the main car is needed.
In your case John, if the M6 did not feel especially enjoyable at low speeds, that's important. It's the amazing low speed ride, sense of occasion, and easy access to controllable little slides out of junctions that make the XFR so nice to use even on the school run, on a 6 miles urban commute it's relaxing as anything one moment, and doing some mild queefery the next. Personally I find the new C63 vastly more desirable than the current M3/M4, even it's slightly dull looks (on the saloon, the coupe is lovely) I prefer to the playground-bully look of the M3/M4. A brightly coloured M4 overtook us in Austria last year and Mrs ALF said "that looks like the sort of car a builder would buy if he made loads of money" and she had a point!
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Post by franki68 on Jun 14, 2018 10:33:52 GMT
‘Another bonus (for the wife sell) is that a second car can be easily turned back to cash, whereas the main car is needed.’
Bloody hell ,that’s a true petrolhead,selling the wife to buy a second car.
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 15, 2018 20:49:24 GMT
Just come across this......
The car is an AMG C63 apparently, with around 550 bhp
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