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Post by Stuntman on Apr 24, 2018 20:04:10 GMT
As some of you already know, the Cayman failed its MOT today and the costs I'm currently being quoted make it beyond economically worthwhile from my perspective. So I will be transferring my private plate off it tomorrow morning and will look to sell the car either as a project for someone, or for parts/salvage. Does anyone have any experience of selling such a car, or suggestions of who to sell it to? Equally I am open to offers if someone wants it as a project. Here's a video from today's MOT showing some of the problems. video.citnow.com/vtyN3CGwf24To complete the picture: The car's tyres are 3.5mm all round, so these would also need replacing in the reasonably near future (£800-£850 ish). It has done 103,300 miles and has had quite a few parts replaced over the years and is in very decent condition cosmetically inside and out. Tax is due at the end of May (just over £300). End of an era from my point of view, but I've decided not to throw any more money at it and will walk away from the car unless persuaded to do otherwise. It does drive very sweetly and has a lovely ride/handling/power balance. Cheers, Stunters |
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Post by johnc on Apr 24, 2018 20:22:42 GMT
That was a very professional and fair review of the car's issues.
I presume the cost of the Cats and exhaust parts will be the biggest item. The discs could easily be skimmed and the side lights and No plate light are really minor issues.
It does seem premature to have to bin a car when it is only 10 years old but if you don't want to spend the money to make it roadworthy, your best bet is to find a Porsche specialist who will possibly have access to an exhaust system from a front end write off. Without searching Autotrader etc I have no idea what the car's value might be as a runner but as an MOT failure I can't see its value being much at all.
Is there a Porsche magazine in which you could post an advert? |
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Post by Stuntman on Apr 24, 2018 20:38:11 GMT
Cats/sensors/exhaust quote is £4600. Other MOT fail bits £900. Oil leak unknown. Car worth perhaps £9k-£10k to buy privately if it had an MOT.
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Post by Martin on Apr 24, 2018 20:47:44 GMT
Sorry to hear the news Dan, end of an era indeed. I think I’d be doing the same as you, but have no idea how to get the most out of it I’m afraid.
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Post by LandieMark on Apr 24, 2018 20:55:52 GMT
As I mentioned elsewhere:
Get your plate off it when the online service opens in the morning while it still has valid MOT which will give you time to think.
The car has come to an age where you can’t justify OPC prices to maintain it which is understandable.
I think the discs will clean with some harsh braking to clean off the corrosion. Even if not, aftermarket quality brakes are £300 in parts.
Aftermarket manifolds, cats and sensors are £800.
Even if you allow £1000 in labour, that is a massive saving over OPC prices.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 21:04:26 GMT
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Post by LandieMark on Apr 24, 2018 21:11:23 GMT
I thought it already had an aftermarket exhaust on it? Cat back only. |
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Post by Roadsterstu on Apr 24, 2018 21:49:06 GMT
It's a difficult choice and just as for you the car is possibly beyond being economically viable to keep, for someone else it could be a very good value entry into Porsche ownership. That was very much my thinking and I have admired the car for some time now but I'd have to be absolutely certain I knew what I would be getting into. And, for me, it woukd mean selling the V60 to fund it and running something cheap and cheerful as a daily.
Perhaps, if you have the time, take stock of other options on the MOT and any required parts and a second opinion is well worth considering. As good as the OPC may well be, they know how to charge.
The undiagnosed oil leak is a concern, certainly.
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Post by PG on Apr 25, 2018 6:44:19 GMT
Sorry to hear the news - and as already said it seems wrong somehow for a perfectly safe car to fail on emissions like that. As I learnt recently with our Shogun, OPC stuff can get very expensive. £4600 for cats, sensors etc sounds pretty outrageous.
Before throwing in the towel completely, I'd take it to a local garage with the list of MOT stuff and get them to quote to change it based on non OPC parts. Only after that make your final decision. If you spend haf what Porsche wanted and then sell it at a bargain price, you're still going to be better off than walking away and selling an MOT failure for not much money.
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Post by johnc on Apr 25, 2018 6:45:37 GMT
The oil leak wouldn't really concern me. I don't think I have ever seen a car with over 100,000 miles that didn't have some kind of leak. Porsche have history with the main crankcase/crankshaft oil seal leaking but unless it is losing a lot of oil I wouldn't bother. Eventually it will be an engine out job but for the purposes of getting the car sold I think it's a non event.
As Trevor said I think I would be getting it fixed outside the Porsche dealer network and would then sell it with a new MOT. The total return will be much greater than selling it as an MOT failure. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 25, 2018 7:09:42 GMT
Non OPC sounds the way to go given it’s age. I don’t think they’d take it off you as it’s too old for their forecourt but an independent specialist may be more likely to give a cheaper quote and probably have potential customers on the look out for a decent early Cayman for whom your car could be just the ticket.
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Post by Martin on Apr 25, 2018 7:48:52 GMT
Talking to a well regarded specialist would be worthwhile, even if it ends up with them making you an offer. We used our local specialist for new discs/pads, they used genuine Porsche parts (so no issue with the warranty) and charged just under £500 which was a decent saving on the OPC.
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 25, 2018 9:58:10 GMT
I think we're forgetting Stunters has two other cars so the hassle of sorting out the Cayman is probably more than his time and effort is worth. That said I'd take it to a Porsche specialist, get it sorted then sell it as there'll be more return including covering the outlay. There might be a deal to be had with the specialist to do all the repairs and then market it for you as well, taking a truckload of stress out of it.
Having just looked on eBay, these are cheap as chips aren't they?
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 25, 2018 10:11:58 GMT
Dan, I've done some motorsport finance in the past for a trackday company. Let me have a word and see if they would be interested in it. If I can do the funding on it they might look at it favourably. The tyres they would change to slicks and with regards to emissions they'd rip the cats out anyway I'd imagine.
As I can't open the OPC report, is there anything in the video that might put someone off wanting to track it?
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Post by franki68 on Apr 25, 2018 11:34:10 GMT
Dan were you just bombing it towards Moreton?
Just saw a blue gt4,but didn’t catch the plate .
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Post by Stuntman on Apr 25, 2018 19:14:14 GMT
Cheers everyone for your thoughts and advice.
Ed's trackday company is currently very much the front runner and we will probably agree the deal tomorrow.
Jeff is also right about the hassle/time etc. Especially because every day I don't work, I don't earn - so taking time off costs me real money at the moment and I really don't think my services will be required at GKN much longer after the takeover by Melrose and expect to be given my notice at any time.
Franki - sadly not. Commuting from Cheltenham to Redditch in the GT4 this week, on the road at about 7.45am-8.45am and 6pm-7pm today.
If (when) the car is sold, I will put up an end of term report thread. It's been emotional.
EDIT: I have indeed managed to transfer the plate tonight, following an abortive attempt this morning when the system crashed mid-payment and the transaction failed altogether.
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Post by LandieMark on Apr 25, 2018 20:35:49 GMT
It’s probably the right decision for you at this time. Glad you got he plate off.
You have had the car as long as I’ve known you so it will be interesting to read the final write up.
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Post by Andy C on Apr 25, 2018 20:44:05 GMT
It’s almost 10 years since we were at Oulton Park and you took me out for a few laps.
Amazing car. sad to see it go , but fingers crossed you get the sale.
Time for a 4wd mega hatch now ....
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Post by Stuntman on Apr 25, 2018 21:06:15 GMT
I've just gone through my invoices for the car, which I will leave for the new owner. Over the 12 years and 103k miles I have spent just under £27k in servicing, maintenance and repairs. On top of that, 2 insurance excesses of about £650 each (from when it was stolen in 2007, and when I hit a suicidal hen pheasant in 2013), plus insurance of about £7800 and tax of about £3000, and then fuel of over £21k assuming 25mpg at an average price of £1.15/litre. So nearly £61k over the 12 years - I'll miss it like a hole in the head  |
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Post by Martin on Apr 25, 2018 21:27:43 GMT
I've just gone through my invoices for the car, which I will leave for the new owner. Over the 12 years and 103k miles I have spent just under £27k in servicing, maintenance and repairs. On top of that, 2 insurance excesses of about £650 each (from when it was stolen in 2007, and when I hit a suicidal hen pheasant in 2013), plus insurance of about £7800 and tax of about £3000, and then fuel of over £21k assuming 25mpg at an average price of £1.15/litre. So nearly £61k over the 12 years - I'll miss it like a hole in the head You missed depreciation!  Seriously.....£5k a year isn’t too bad when you’re including fuel which is just over a third of the cost. |
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 25, 2018 22:03:52 GMT
Best not to keep track of these costs when you're an enthusiast. Which reminds me, the Gorilla says it needs a service but no items in the computer need attention. Cooper BMW said that the remote check online also says it doesn't need a service, so I assume it's an annual inspection. So this week Cooper have offered a free end-of-winter service so they can do that and reset the OBC.
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Post by Stuntman on Apr 26, 2018 6:40:15 GMT
I know I missed depreciation  - in round numbers it will be about £43k, making about £104k total cost of ownership over 12 years and 2 months. So nearly £9k a year and just over £1 per mile. Wouldn't have done anything differently. |
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Post by Blarno on Apr 26, 2018 8:15:30 GMT
Shame you're not up this end od the country as I know a great Porsche specialist who would sort it right out for a fraction of that.
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Post by Martin on Apr 26, 2018 10:40:35 GMT
I know I missed depreciation - in round numbers it will be about £43k, making about £104k total cost of ownership over 12 years and 2 months. So nearly £9k a year and just over £1 per mile. Wouldn't have done anything differently. I’ve had a quick look....thanks Dan! BMW is on about £15.5k a year or 56p a mile and the Porsche £7.4k or 83p a mile. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 26, 2018 11:15:33 GMT
I know I missed depreciation - in round numbers it will be about £43k, making about £104k total cost of ownership over 12 years and 2 months. So nearly £9k a year and just over £1 per mile. Wouldn't have done anything differently. Well you can’t take your money with you so it’s worth enjoying and it sounds like you have! |
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Post by franki68 on Apr 26, 2018 13:26:03 GMT
Shame you're not up this end od the country as I know a great Porsche specialist who would sort it right out for a fraction of that. There are some top Porsche indy's in the northwest.The guys over at warrington (can't remember what they are called )and Hartech at Bolton are really really good. |
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Post by Blarno on Apr 26, 2018 13:50:29 GMT
Ninemeister are the guys in Warrington. We used to use them for our geometry setups, top bunch of lads.
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Post by alf on Apr 26, 2018 14:32:46 GMT
Bloody hell Stunters, that's pretty shocking ( more the cost to fix than the issues). Your Cayman is a lovely car and I remember being very impressed with it from the passenger seat on the track at Bedford, for a car with everyday useability and refinement it handled incredibly well on track.
However, remind me why Porsches cost so bloody much in the first place, and then to service, and what the benefits of using OPC's are supposed to be? They seem to me to be superb driver's cars that are simply no better engineered/built than a typical car, not especially reliable, and yet the servicing and especially parts prices are absolutely eye watering. Do they even have 3 year warranties yet? Some of the things that broke on yours (like springs snapping) were what you expect of a student's 15 year old Clio.
I came close to buying a long term 2nd/3rd car in the shape of a 911SC years ago when good ones were £12k. Given what has happened to prices since I would be surprised if I ever owned a Porsche, unless my earnings massively improve to the point where running costs in the £thousands a year for a barely used car don't matter. This thread is just making it even more likely than whenever I get another second car, it will be another Caterham!
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Post by Martin on Apr 26, 2018 14:48:27 GMT
Porsche servicing costs aren’t as horrendous as people think. Both services and tyres are cheaper on the Boxster than the BMW. Service intervals are 2 years / 20,000 miles if you want to leave it that long and as an example, the most expensive service on the Boxster has been £570 vs £631 for the BMW.
The new car warranty is 3 years / unlimited miles and you get a full 2 year warranty (same as Jaguar) when you buy a used car. You can have an extended warranty on cars up to 14 years old or 125,000 miles, which is excellent and the cost per year is less than BMW wanted for mine. We’ve only had to use the warranty once, when the brake master cylinder leaked and not only did they fix it, they gave us a new carpet mat and removed the carpets to ensure they were fully clean.
They cost so much in the first place because that’s what the market says they’re worth....
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Post by alf on Apr 26, 2018 14:56:28 GMT
It's fine if you know what you are getting into, and some people will be lucky and some unlucky, but personally I get frustrated that there seems to be a permanent and entirely false consensus in the motoring press that you can buy an older Porsche and keep it running for sensible money. The same mags usually take a bath whenever they try it, but continue to print stuff about "setting aside a grand a year for running costs" and so on, it's like a collective amnesia and no doubt it helps Porsche massively by keeping values and interest high.
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- in round numbers it will be about £43k, making about £104k total cost of ownership over 12 years and 2 months. So nearly £9k a year and just over £1 per mile.
