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Post by johnc on Apr 9, 2018 15:53:21 GMT
I am glad that for the meantime the disease that it the smart motorway hasn't yet made it to my part of the world. I meant to post this last week after we got back from Tunbridge Wells. What a complete waste of time these changing speed limits are: you can't concentrate on driving safely when the speed limit changes every quarter mile and everyone around you speeds up or slows down. Have they passed the speed limit setting to a bunch of chimps in the hope that they come up with every permutation of limits in the next 25 years?
On Sunday 1st April we drove from Tunbridge Wells to Mercedes World, leaving about 9am, so the road was pretty quiet. I can't remember which motorway it was (M4?) but the speed limit was reduced to 60mph for no apparent reason. About 2 miles later there was a sign on the inside lane which said Inside Lane Partially Obstructed and the next gantry went down to 50mph. By this time a group of about 20 cars were all driving along at the same speed a few hundred yards ahead of us when we saw a Discovery (looked like it was on its way to an off road event) which had pulled over and off the road and had, perhaps half a tyre on the inside lane. The driver was in a layby about 200yds further on talking to a fellow competitor who had his old Land Rover on a trailer. I didn't know you could get layby's on a motorway but I presume it was for recovery vehicles and Police use only.
Just after we passed the layby the next gantry sign showed a 40mph speed limit just as people were getting ready to increase their speed having passed the obstruction. Some people saw the reduced limit and hit the brakes whilst others were either not paying attention or were already on the loud pedal. Ahead of us, there were brake lights, smoking tyres and cars veering left and right. Somehow no-one seemed to hit anyone but this just made us feel that the smart part has been missed somewhere.
Why do they need to have such a reduction in speed on a quiet Sunday morning and why have a the final speed reduction after the obstruction? If there isn't someone watching this on CCTV then it shouldn't be on. Also, the speed limits and speed cameras on every 2nd gantry just mean that people bunch up in unsafe convoys with drivers who are focused on the gantries and not the road ahead.
I do pity those of you who have to drive on these types of road regularly. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Apr 9, 2018 16:12:53 GMT
On a quiet motorway with an obstruction, such as you described above, I can see that the smart idea might not work, but on crowded sections during rush hour I find that they work very well. Gone is the fustrating speed up, slow down, stop, get going again, stop, go, speed up, stop, etc. routine and instead everyone sets their cruise at a steady 60 or 50 and bumbles along at a relatively constant speed. Not ideal, but the best solution for crowded sections of road at the busiest times.
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Post by Martin on Apr 9, 2018 17:08:20 GMT
On a quiet motorway with an obstruction, such as you described above, I can see that the smart idea might not work, but on crowded sections during rush hour I find that they work very well. Gone is the fustrating speed up, slow down, stop, get going again, stop, go, speed up, stop, etc. routine and instead everyone sets their cruise at a steady 60 or 50 and bumbles along at a relatively constant speed. Not ideal, but the best solution for crowded sections of road at the busiest times. I agree, but it’s frustrating when there is a lower limit and the road is pretty clear. I can’t remember driving on the section of M42 between the M6 and the airport when it hasn’t been restricted, even at 6am. Same for the M1 around Luton. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 9, 2018 18:23:02 GMT
On a quiet motorway with an obstruction, such as you described above, I can see that the smart idea might not work, but on crowded sections during rush hour I find that they work very well. Gone is the fustrating speed up, slow down, stop, get going again, stop, go, speed up, stop, etc. routine and instead everyone sets their cruise at a steady 60 or 50 and bumbles along at a relatively constant speed. Not ideal, but the best solution for crowded sections of road at the busiest times. I agree, but it’s frustrating when there is a lower limit and the road is pretty clear. I can’t remember driving on the section of M42 between the M6 and the airport when it hasn’t been restricted, even at 6am. Same for the M1 around Luton. The biggest problem comes when the speed lowers without an obvious reason causing some drivers to speed up and others to slow before the ones speeding up suddenly realise they are doing 70 on a clear motorway but are about to pass a speed camera set to 50. Cue sudden braking and swerving. |
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Post by Boxer6 on Apr 9, 2018 18:52:16 GMT
On a quiet motorway with an obstruction, such as you described above, I can see that the smart idea might not work, but on crowded sections during rush hour I find that they work very well. Gone is the fustrating speed up, slow down, stop, get going again, stop, go, speed up, stop, etc. routine and instead everyone sets their cruise at a steady 60 or 50 and bumbles along at a relatively constant speed. Not ideal, but the best solution for crowded sections of road at the busiest times. I agree, but it’s frustrating when there is a lower limit and the road is pretty clear. I can’t remember driving on the section of M42 between the M6 and the airport when it hasn’t been restricted, even at 6am. Same for the M1 around Luton. I had the misfortune to travel on the M1 a few years ago, from MK to Luton. This was the Sunday after the Pearl Jam gig SimonP and I were at, and I was following my mate to look at a house there after he'd "collected" me from my hotel. Despite the lack of traffic the limits changed constantly, the hard shoulder was opened as a traffic lane due to "heavy traffic" - what traffic? - and I found the whole thing very annoying and not a little stressful. I'm another who's glad we don't have such nonsense up here. Yet. |
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 9, 2018 21:05:16 GMT
On the Thursday before Easter I drove sister-in-law up the M3 and round the M25 to Heathrow to catch her flight back o Denver. I then headed back onto the M25 and round to Watford. The "smart" motorway variable limits were dangerous, at one point there was a 20mph drop in speed limits from one gantry to the next.... 60 to 40 and then the next gantry was back to NSL (70). Some people did not seem to want to slow to 40, others did and were in danger of being rear-ended by people who were either inattentive or did not believe the limit....... and there was no obstruction plus the traffic was fairly light and free flowing, not IMHO justifying a speed reduction of any sort.
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Post by johnc on Apr 10, 2018 9:24:47 GMT
On a quiet motorway with an obstruction, such as you described above, I can see that the smart idea might not work, but on crowded sections during rush hour I find that they work very well. Gone is the fustrating speed up, slow down, stop, get going again, stop, go, speed up, stop, etc. routine and instead everyone sets their cruise at a steady 60 or 50 and bumbles along at a relatively constant speed. Not ideal, but the best solution for crowded sections of road at the busiest times. I agree, but it’s frustrating when there is a lower limit and the road is pretty clear. I can’t remember driving on the section of M42 between the M6 and the airport when it hasn’t been restricted, even at 6am. Same for the M1 around Luton. I think the idea is sound but if it isn't implemented properly then it just creates a whole series of other issues. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 10, 2018 9:45:03 GMT
They're shit and the roads like everything else is brought down to the lowest common denominator. The general publics standard of driving has really deteriorated since monitoring came into force. Lets just have a free for all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 9:48:03 GMT
Education would help generally but a free for all is going to be a disaster.
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Post by johnc on Apr 10, 2018 10:31:24 GMT
Education would help generally but a free for all is going to be a disaster. I'm not sure. I think I could quite easily see myself in some kind of Mad Max world. It would certainly ensure there were no outside or middle lane hoggers. We could have a protocol of one shot over the bonnet to warn of a car that wanted past and then driver beware if you ignore it. |
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Post by Blarno on Apr 11, 2018 14:56:06 GMT
What we need is smart road users.
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Post by Alex on Apr 11, 2018 17:33:37 GMT
What we need is smart road users. I think they’re becoming an endangered species |
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Post by Roadsterstu on Apr 12, 2018 7:31:51 GMT
On a quiet motorway with an obstruction, such as you described above, I can see that the smart idea might not work, but on crowded sections during rush hour I find that they work very well. Gone is the fustrating speed up, slow down, stop, get going again, stop, go, speed up, stop, etc. routine and instead everyone sets their cruise at a steady 60 or 50 and bumbles along at a relatively constant speed. Not ideal, but the best solution for crowded sections of road at the busiest times. I agree, but it’s frustrating when there is a lower limit and the road is pretty clear. I can’t remember driving on the section of M42 between the M6 and the airport when it hasn’t been restricted, even at 6am. Same for the M1 around Luton. That section on the M42 is a monumental PITA. It seems totally random at times. Then, once you clear that smart section and revert to the normal motorway NSL the traffic ckears nicely. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Apr 12, 2018 9:48:10 GMT
I agree, but it’s frustrating when there is a lower limit and the road is pretty clear. I can’t remember driving on the section of M42 between the M6 and the airport when it hasn’t been restricted, even at 6am. Same for the M1 around Luton. That section on the M42 is a monumental PITA. It seems totally random at times. Then, once you clear that smart section and revert to the normal motorway NSL the traffic clears nicely. Yes, but surely that is because at the southern end half of the traffic joins the M40 and at the northern end most of the traffic joins either the M6 or M6 Toll? |
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Post by Blarno on Apr 12, 2018 10:19:55 GMT
I travel on the M6 and M62 daily, both on sections that are not 'smart' and by and large, they flow pretty freely.
My main gripe with 'smart' motorways is the seeming randomness of the speed limits and warning signs. The average motorway user is, frankly, a fucking moron and they panic brake when they see an overhead matrix disply rather than actually read what it say. This isn't just restricted to 'smart' motorways sadly - it's a regular occurrence near Thelwall Viaduct, where a message will appear on the matrices warning of a queue on the M56 near Chester (Which is a good 20-30 miles away) and people just hoof on the anchors.
We need proper driver training. We need motorway training as part of the test curriculum and we need proper motorway Plod to enforce lane hogging rules.
That won't happen though. It probably costs less to install 'smart' motorways and pay some monkeys to sit in the control rooms and throw their shit at the buttons.
The M6 between Jct 18 and 19 is bad enough as it is, I guarantee it will be a total shit show once the 'smart' part comes into play next year. It's currently a blanket 50 limit whilst they complete the work and a significant amount of the traffic can't even seem to grasp how that works.
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Post by bryan on Apr 13, 2018 16:24:41 GMT
I hate smart motorways with a passion - not for the variable limits but generally they have narrowed the lanes and removed the hard shoulder so all the traffic is very close together. It could be my head thing affecting perception but when a lorry appears 2ft from your mirror one side and another is up your chuff trying to go faster than the 50mph it doesn't feel very safe especially when there is no hard shoulder to escape to. There is very little margin for error a slight swerve and a car is in your lane. It would be interesting to see the accident stats
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Post by bryan on Apr 13, 2018 16:25:18 GMT
Also driving some older cars I quite appreciate a hard shoulder in case the car has a moment - it is a Lotus after all....
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Post by PR on Apr 14, 2018 21:49:17 GMT
The most cynical misuse and manipulation of 'smart' motorways I've seen was late last year when I was on the M1 just south of J11 around Luton. The limit was 60 as it seems to be permanently around there. As I was trundling up the hill just after the junction I saw the gantry cameras flash at traffic ahead. The reason for this was that one single gantry was set to a 50 limit, just before the road reverted to NSL. After I'd slowed and gone through I saw these cameras snapping more traffic behind me. There was literally no reason at all for the limit to go down to 50, other than the obvious one - i.e. to catch drivers unawares and rake in a load of cash. I know you can argue that people should be fully aware of the prevailing limit but when you've gone through 60, 60, 60, 60 when the road conditions don't require it, chances are you've lost the will to live by the time you reach the sneaky 50. For reference, the road is often like this:   |
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Post by PG on Apr 16, 2018 6:51:47 GMT
I hate smart motorways with a passion - not for the variable limits but generally they have narrowed the lanes and removed the hard shoulder so all the traffic is very close together. It could be my head thing affecting perception but when a lorry appears 2ft from your mirror one side and another is up your chuff trying to go faster than the 50mph it doesn't feel very safe especially when there is no hard shoulder to escape to. There is very little margin for error a slight swerve and a car is in your lane. It would be interesting to see the accident stats I think there was some research done last year on roadworks with narrowed lanes and reduced speed limits. This showed that making the speed limit 60 was safe. 40 was also safe as everyone slows down. 50 was the worst - as with the allowed margin for error, lorries just kept banging on at their limiter, thus intimidating cars and making an accident more likely. On the OP, I don't have an issue with smart motorways. Having travelled the M6 Birmingham sections an awful lot, they were much improved by being "smart". The traffic flows better at peak times whilst the limit is 60 or 50. They don't work once the limit drops to 40 as by that time the traffic has ground to a halt, but then no road plan will cope at that stage. |
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Post by PG on Apr 16, 2018 6:53:54 GMT
The most cynical misuse and manipulation of 'smart' motorways I've seen was late last year when I was on the M1 just south of J11 around Luton. Wasn't that the stretch of road where the police chief said he'd leave the cameras on all the time to raise more in fines? |
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Post by Blarno on Apr 16, 2018 9:22:20 GMT
I love the way it tells you there is congestion when there blatantly isn't. Any congestion is caused directly by the overhead signs, as idiots slow down for the imaginary congestion, causing actual congestion.
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Post by Alex on Apr 16, 2018 11:32:11 GMT
I hate smart motorways with a passion - not for the variable limits but generally they have narrowed the lanes and removed the hard shoulder so all the traffic is very close together. It could be my head thing affecting perception but when a lorry appears 2ft from your mirror one side and another is up your chuff trying to go faster than the 50mph it doesn't feel very safe especially when there is no hard shoulder to escape to. There is very little margin for error a slight swerve and a car is in your lane. It would be interesting to see the accident stats I think there was some research done last year on roadworks with narrowed lanes and reduced speed limits. This showed that making the speed limit 60 was safe. 40 was also safe as everyone slows down. 50 was the worst - as with the allowed margin for error, lorries just kept banging on at their limiter, thus intimidating cars and making an accident more likely. On the OP, I don't have an issue with smart motorways. Having travelled the M6 Birmingham sections an awful lot, they were much improved by being "smart". The traffic flows better at peak times whilst the limit is 60 or 50. They don't work once the limit drops to 40 as by that time the traffic has ground to a halt, but then no road plan will cope at that stage. The last couple of sentences are why I use the M6 Toll! |
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Post by cbeaks1 on Apr 18, 2018 15:45:53 GMT
I got NIP ed last week at J26 of the M1 South. It must have changed to 40 for no discernible reason and I got a 53 in a 40. I think I was in radar cruise in lane 2 of 4 so I reckon they will have made a few quid on that day.
Very annoyed as I considered myself really careful on the smart motorways.
I had a speed course 2 years ago so it will be points.
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Post by ChrisM on May 14, 2018 12:43:41 GMT
Yesterday in blazing sun, there was a warning of fog on part of the "smart" M25 with suitable lowering of speed limit.
Madness unless it was just to raise funds by catching people out
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Post by cbeaks1 on May 15, 2018 8:00:40 GMT
I got offered a course - very pleased.
I think it must be because it is a motorway speed course rather than the regular one. A snip at £85 too.
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Post by Boxer6 on May 15, 2018 8:06:40 GMT
I got offered a course - very pleased. I think it must be because it is a motorway speed course rather than the regular one. A snip at £85 too. Lucky man! Are you going to bring up the circumstances for a wee rant? I think I'd be tempted if it were me. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 15, 2018 8:40:11 GMT
I got offered a course - very pleased. I think it must be because it is a motorway speed course rather than the regular one. A snip at £85 too. Don't know about that, I've just been done for 81mph on the A1 at Wetherby and I've got to take the points as I had a speed awareness course 18 months ago. |
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Post by cbeaks1 on May 15, 2018 8:44:07 GMT
Either way I’ll take it.
I did see they have issued 10x as many NIP’s since the smart mway went in.
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Post by scouse on May 15, 2018 10:38:14 GMT
My current pet hate is the M6 between 16-19 (i think) where they are 'upgrading' to a smart motorway. 20 fucking miles at 50mph. They can't work on more than a mile a month, so why stick the whole fucking 20 miles at 50mph?
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Post by ChrisM on May 15, 2018 17:26:22 GMT
Between Jct 4a and 4 of the M3 just now on my way home..... all of a sudden, 50mph limit sign appears along with "reports of an obstruction".
Yes, there certainly was an obstruction, a car broken down in the inside lane. 2 cars had failed to pull out into the next lane in time, with many near-misses as they tried to slowly edge out. The next sign beyond the breakdown also read 50 with reports of an obstruction. There wasn't much traffic and the whole length is supposed to be under CCTV control, so why wasn't the inside lane closed and a "stranded vehicle" message posted before the breakdown ?
Stupid motorway, or stupid motorway controllers..... i just hope that nobody runs into the back of the broken down car
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