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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 23, 2018 15:37:07 GMT
A difficult issue but if I lived in certain parts of the states I'd 100% own and learn how to use a handgun
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 21:01:42 GMT
A difficult issue but if I lived in certain parts of the states I'd 100% own and learn how to use a handgun +1 but which gun would be difficult. There are so many, I would have multiples of different types. Probably an ex service M4 with the sear modification and a silencer. Something similar to the M18. A long rifle, the Lee Enfield with the Mark 4 SMLE and chambered for either .308 Remington or 7.62 with the long chamber mods. A small automatic, preferably a bullpup but there is a lot of choice there. Handgun, well either the SIG-Sauer hybrid receiver and extended mag in 10mm but I would want the slide to be replaced with the competition version from match shooting. That would protect the home interior so some IED trip mines for the approaches to any property I was living in. The mix would have a secondary of iron sulphide shavings, sulphur dioxide and flour. The primary blast would shred the first intruder, when the sulphur and flour mix reach ignition temperature there would be a blast wave/fireball that would take more than eye lashes off. If I had a survival knife some magnesium shavings would really make the party.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 11:16:45 GMT
It seems that some of the big companies are severing ties with the NRA, perhaps they are learning. I hope they get there sharpish.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 9:23:17 GMT
I wonder if the NRA isn't signing its own death warrant, albeit over a far longer time than I would like. It does seem like the younger generation is increasingly angry about this, and I wonder how long it'll be before a large enough percentage of them become voters who have been directly or significantly affected by such events. Clearly some will turn to the dark side as they age, but I'd hope not enough to prevent there being enough sway to force change.
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Post by michael on Feb 26, 2018 10:18:58 GMT
I wonder if the NRA isn't signing its own death warrant, albeit over a far longer time than I would like. That's exactly how it will happen. 75% of Americans don't own a gun, it's a behavioural change and the influence of the NRA seems to be diminishing. It would be wrong to assume that this is an issue with the NRA alone, there needs to be a cultural shift in the way guns are perceived. It won't happen overnight, no change this significant ever will, but I think it can be solved with a log term approach.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 12:14:49 GMT
There is also a very healthy survivalist mentality over the pond. A whole industry intent on supplying it to the last dollar too. Survival food ffs, any tinned/vacuum packed food will have a reasonable shelf life and yet there are companies supplying a specialist group of products aimed at the survivalist culture possibly religion based. All aimed at 'the rapture'. WTF?
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Post by Tim on Feb 26, 2018 12:43:16 GMT
The NRA are being pretty short sighted by not backing ANY ban at all. It comes across that they're so arrogant they don't think they need to concede any points whereas if they did actually do that, in light of the stronger than usual reaction to this, they might at least save themselves having something imposed. I'm sure that if the current momentum keeps up then any lawmaker will be absolutely obliged to support a more far-reaching ban, or face a torrent of protests from tearful young people and parents - surely not the image they really want to see on the news.
Clearly the NRA are sticking to previous actions of ignoring the concern until it goes away, doesn't look like that's happening this time round.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 12:49:46 GMT
There is also a very healthy survivalist mentality over the pond. A whole industry intent on supplying it to the last dollar too. Survival food ffs, any tinned/vacuum packed food will have a reasonable shelf life and yet there are companies supplying a specialist group of products aimed at the survivalist culture possibly religion based. All aimed at 'the rapture'. WTF? Not sure that's the best choice of word!
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Post by PG on Feb 26, 2018 13:49:58 GMT
I wonder if the NRA isn't signing its own death warrant, albeit over a far longer time than I would like. That's exactly how it will happen. 75% of Americans don't own a gun, it's a behavioural change and the influence of the NRA seems to be diminishing. It would be wrong to assume that this is an issue with the NRA alone, there needs to be a cultural shift in the way guns are perceived. It won't happen overnight, no change this significant ever will, but I think it can be solved with a log term approach. It is also part of the shift in cultures away from the countryside and into urban environments. In country areas, more people have shotguns, air rifles or rifles. Most of these are used for vermin control or "sport". That's true in the UK as well as the US. But in an urban environment, people do not see the need or requirement. So urban people are probably more anti-gun. But country people probably have less armed drug dealers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 16:29:44 GMT
There is also a very healthy survivalist mentality over the pond. A whole industry intent on supplying it to the last dollar too. Survival food ffs, any tinned/vacuum packed food will have a reasonable shelf life and yet there are companies supplying a specialist group of products aimed at the survivalist culture possibly religion based. All aimed at 'the rapture'. WTF? Not sure that's the best choice of word! Good point, I was using the term as in lots of money in it. It seems there are a lot of gullible people around.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 9:22:49 GMT
It’s February and there have been 18 school shootings in the US in 2018. Mental. Totally mental. I watched someone commenting on this and that basically any shooting that was within school property was a "school shooting". Makes sense you might think but he listed numerous examples where eg the police gave chase to someone and a firearm was discharged within school grounds as part of that chase. Other examples included gang fights and drug deals etc at 2 in the morning that ended up with a weapon being discharged on school property.
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 27, 2018 11:34:56 GMT
It’s February and there have been 18 school shootings in the US in 2018. Mental. Totally mental. I watched someone commenting on this and that basically any shooting that was within school property was a "school shooting". Makes sense you might think but he listed numerous examples where eg the police gave chase to someone and a firearm was discharged within school grounds as part of that chase. Other examples included gang fights and drug deals etc at 2 in the morning that ended up with a weapon being discharged on school property. That explains the comment I saw on an American friends' FB timeline saying it was the 7th mass school shooting this year. So, Murcan definition of "mass" shooting is?
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Post by Tim on Feb 27, 2018 11:58:20 GMT
How about this for the opening line of a current news story?
"A Pennsylvania school has said it will close for a day while a nearby pro-gun church hosts an event inviting guests to bring their unloaded AR-15 rifles."
Pretty tasteless to have the event I'd say and what kind of church thinks being pro-gun is acceptable? (The answer is that its The World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, formerly known as the Moonies).
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Post by scouse on Feb 27, 2018 12:03:11 GMT
The people who pushed the 18 school shootings are a gun control advocacy group who class a school shooting as: "any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds" Snopes breaks down their claims as follows:-
Firearm attacks during school hours: 7 22 January: Italy High School, Italy, Texas – A 16-year-old student opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun in the school cafeteria, wounding another student. 22 January: NET Charter High School, Gentilly, Louisiana – An unknown person fired shots at students from a vehicle in the school parking lot. One person was injured (though not by gunfire). 23 January: Marshall County High School, Benton, Kentucky – A 15-year-old student opened fire with a handgun on school grounds, killing two and injuring 18. 25 January: Murphy High School, Mobile, Alabama – A student fired a handgun into the air during a fight with another student. No injuries were reported. 26 January: Dearborn High School, Dearborn, Michigan – Shots were fired during a fight in the school parking lot. No injuries were reported. 31 January: Lincoln High School, Philadelphia – A fight during a basketball game resulted in the shooting death of a 32-year-old man outside the school. 14 February: Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Florida – A 19-year-old former student opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle, killing 17 and injuring 14. Firearm attacks NOT occurring during school hours: 2 20 January: Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem, North Carolina – A 21-year-old was shot and killed during a fight at a party on school grounds. 5 February: – Oxon Hill High School, Oxon Hill, Maryland – A student was shot and injured in the school parking lot during an attempted robbery. Shots fired during school hours, unknown reason: 2 (no injuries) 10 January: California State University, San Bernardino, California – Bullets were fired through a window, with no suspects or motive identified. 8 February: Metropolitan High School, New York, NY – A student fired a gun into the floor of a classroom. Unintentional gunfire during school hours: 3 10 January: Grayson College, Denison, Texas – A student fired a weapon belonging to an adviser, believing it wasn’t loaded. No injuries were reported. 1 February: Salvador B. Castro Middle School, Los Angeles – A semi-automatic handgun brought to school by a 12-year-old student accidentally went off. Four students were injured. 5 February: Harmony Learning Center, Maplewood, Minnesota – A third-grader pressed the trigger of a law enforcement officer’s handgun. The weapon went off but no one was injured. Suicide attempts during school hours: 10 January: Coronado Elementary School, Sierra Vista, Arizona – A middle school student shot himself in the bathroom of the school and was pronounced dead at the scene. Stray bullets hitting school buildings during school hours: 4 January: New Start High School, near Seattle – Bullets fired by an unidentified shooter entered an administrative office. No injuries were reported. Stray bullets hitting school buildings NOT occurring during school hours: 15 January: Wiley College, Marshall, Texas – Gunshots fired from a vehicle in the parking lot of a college dorm entered through a window, but did not injure residents.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 12:58:03 GMT
Hardly reassuring though, is it?
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 27, 2018 14:00:34 GMT
Hardly reassuring though, is it? My thoughts exactly, especially "Unintentional gunfire during school hours: 3" Surely this is enough to convince anyone with half a brain cell that more guns in schools are not really the solution.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 16:47:57 GMT
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Post by Roadsterstu on Mar 10, 2018 18:00:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 8:43:56 GMT
It's not a nice thing to think, but a small part of me wishes this sort of tragedy upon those who do all they can to thwart attempts to make the US a safer place. I don't actually want it to happen, but I wonder what it would take with some people...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 15:25:55 GMT
Not as if this is a new problem or demonstrating a new position from the law makers over there. The steps taken so far strike me as a token effort to appease those demonstrating their anger at a failure to communicate. Radical change will be needed to make real change including altering a certain document the NRA is using to base its suit against the California government.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 8:23:16 GMT
Some of the responses to the 800-odd March for our Lives rallies held recently, from Wikipedia:
National Rifle Association[edit]
On March 21, NRA TV host Grant Stinchfield stated that "March for Our Lives is backed by radicals with a history of violent threats, language and actions"; fact-checker PolitiFact has rated this statement as being "without merit" and "Pants on Fire" indicating that it is a "ridiculous claim".[303][304]
While the march was occurring, the NRA posted a membership drive video on their Facebook page, declaring that the "protests aren't spontaneous. Gun-hating billionaires and Hollywood elites are manipulating and exploiting children as part of their plan to DESTROY the Second Amendment". Another video dubbed "A March for Their Lies" was uploaded to YouTube featuring Colion Noir, in which he described the planned rally as a "carnival of a march". Noir also said in the video that there is an "agenda that's a million times bigger than the guns".[305][306][307]
Politicians
Former Republican senator and presidential candidate Rick Santorum criticized the Parkland activists, suggesting during an interview with CNN that students should be learning ways to respond to a shooter rather than asking lawmakers "to solve their problem"; Santorum advised students to take classes in CPR rather than marching in Washington.[313][314] The Washington Post quoted several doctors responding to Santorum that CPR would not be at all effective on gunshot victims as they were suffering from blood loss.[315]
Media
On social media, fake pictures and GIFs of Emma González tearing up a copy of the U.S. Constitution were circulated in an effort to discredit the march. The images were doctored from originals of González tearing up a shooting target sign. Actor and conservative commentator Adam Baldwin defended circulating the doctored images as "political satire".[318][319]
So, in answer to my original question, probably never?
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Post by Tim on Apr 3, 2018 9:46:19 GMT
I was surprised to learn recently that the NRA membership is around 5 million. Given their influence I had suspected the figure to be many multiples of that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 9:08:02 GMT
I've just taken out a trial subscription to a quarterly news magazine called Delayed Gratification, which comes out three months in arrears. This is their self-description:
I find that very hard to argue against. First issue contains the following snippets of eye-roll:
The Vegas shooting was the 339th mass shooting (defined as four deaths or more) in 2017 - another 87 followed before year-end.
There are more than 2.5 times the number of registered gun dealers in the US as there are McDonalds and Starbucks outlets combined.
Numbers of mentions of topics by Trump in speeches, interviews, debates and social media since inauguration:
- Fake news 347. - Terrorism 188. - Gun control 2. - Golf 56.
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Post by Tim on Apr 4, 2018 9:20:59 GMT
That sounds like a great publication and I hope it does well. What's the sub cost, if you don't mind me asking?
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 4, 2018 9:26:00 GMT
I was surprised to learn recently that the NRA membership is around 5 million. Given their influence I had suspected the figure to be many multiples of that. Influence is not about voters that are members it's about donations that can be spent to convince voters to vote for you and making sure your manifesto accords with the donor.
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Post by Tim on Apr 4, 2018 9:27:21 GMT
I know but I also expected them to have a much larger membership.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 10:01:46 GMT
£36, Tim.
Also has NRA budget graphics. Revenue in 2015 was $336.7M, split almost 50/50 between membership and gun manufacturers (donations and advertising).
In the last election, it spend $54m on supporting republicans (a fifth of which was to Trump) and nearly $20m opposing Clinton. 96% of this was in seven closely-contested states, of which the GOP won six.
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Post by Tim on Apr 4, 2018 10:22:56 GMT
Thanks Simon. I might have a look at that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 20:04:51 GMT
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Post by Roadsterstu on May 2, 2018 9:57:36 GMT
Quite.
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