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Post by Big Blue on Feb 19, 2018 13:39:39 GMT
No mass shooting in the US has used an 'assault rifle'. The AR15 and it's derivatives uses the same .223 cartridge as any other hunting rifle. It's not about shell size it's about the selection of semi- or full-automatic modes that makes an assault rifle. That and fire power (more than a handgun, less than a traditional rifle), detachable magazines and a minimum 300m range.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 14:14:59 GMT
I think that the NRA takes the view that any restriction will be the thin end of the wedge, so no sacrifice (on the part of others) is too great.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 15:39:29 GMT
Something that will make a problem is that only some parts of the automatic/semi automatic weapons are proscribed and that is being side stepped by the 3d printer revolution. The receiver or shell of an M-16 can now be printed at home, as can the selector for fully automatic fire. Where there is a way, someone will find it. Mind wipe time perhaps? Something that could have been restricted is ammunition sales. As has been said before, a distinct change in attitude has to come and more attention to mental health. What is it that makes an individual go from argument to "what the heck, blow them away"? Apparently the latest feckwit was known to the FBI, how does that NOT warrant attention in a room with soft wallpaper?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 15:46:35 GMT
Whether it is mental health or not (and I find a lot of the talk on the subject rather harsh - most people with mental health problems are a danger to themselves only, if they are indeed a danger to anyone at all), the problem is still unfettered access. That or start jailing anyone whose ever taken Prozac. I suspect the latter is more likely in Trump's USA.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 16:30:20 GMT
Not the point I am trying to make, just that where there are mental health issues, help should be easily available and in a nation where being healthy is an expensive business that is unlikely to happen soon. In ases where a person has a known problem this should not even be an issue but the truth is different. Here, anyone who has a suspected problem they are often but not always, escorted to a room with soft furnishings. A bit simplistic perhaps but a rifle is not exactly required as a knife can do just as much harm, or a van.
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 19, 2018 20:18:36 GMT
Not the point I am trying to make, just that where there are mental health issues, help should be easily available and in a nation where being healthy is an expensive business that is unlikely to happen soon. In ases where a person has a known problem this should not even be an issue but the truth is different. Here, anyone who has a suspected problem they are often but not always, escorted to a room with soft furnishings. A bit simplistic perhaps but a rifle is not exactly required as a knife can do just as much harm, or a van. I can only speak for Scotland, obviously, but I think the same goes in England & Wales too; an individual usually needs to be displaying some quite significant symptoms of whatever illness before they would even be referred to a Community Mental Health Team by a GP, never mind have a "suspected problem". It would be impossible to assess everyone who might be behaving "oddly", besides which there aren't enough hospital beds to treat the number of people who are in need of them due to a severe mental illness, most of the time, so there'd be no chance of admitting someone "just in case". From what I understand of the U.S. mental health system the situation is even more dire there, so it's really no surprise thing like this happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 20:36:48 GMT
I agree about the mental care system in the US but, the individual concerned was known to the FBI and it is not every Tom, Dick or Harry who gets that kind of attention. How is it that the FBI did nothing?
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 19, 2018 22:06:38 GMT
I agree about the mental care system in the US but, the individual concerned was known to the FBI and it is not every Tom, Dick or Harry who gets that kind of attention. How is it that the FBI did nothing? True, not everyone is known to the FBI and most that are are probably up to some sort of skullduggery; the same questions were asked of our security services about a number of terrorists, and of France's - one thing's for sure, we'll never know the truth of it form "them"!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 23:34:46 GMT
I have just seen the biscuit being well and truly taken. A young American woman on the beeb news arguing for more guns and the arming of teachers so they can defend their students. So, when will we have the first student shot by a teacher for carrying an odd looking backpack or a heavy satchel, for fear they might be going for a bomb or gun? It really is a sad situation they have themselves in. A real shame.
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Post by michael on Feb 20, 2018 0:03:30 GMT
The arm to protect thing is a common reaction but there have been numerous cases where those armed in situations where they could shoot someone haven’t because they’re scared. It does come back to the individual and not the guns. Obviously access is an issue but Pandora’s box is well and truly open there. Mental health is often a scapegoat but I do think there is something about the attraction of guns, these same people could go on a rampage with a vehicle and take out as many people but they don’t. I think the media does have a part to play in taking the ‘coolness’ out of guns.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 12:37:22 GMT
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Post by Tim on Feb 20, 2018 13:38:52 GMT
It's not mental health, it's anger management.
It doesn't matter that the guy was known to the FBI. They don't have the resources to follow up, in detail, every individual who makes threats using social media. For example, look how many prominent females (politicians, etc) have been threatened with rape by keyboard warriors, people who you just know wouldn't actually even consider saying it face to face.
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Post by Tim on Feb 20, 2018 13:41:26 GMT
It's not mental health, it's anger management.
It doesn't matter that the guy was known to the FBI. They don't have the resources to follow up, in detail, every individual who makes threats using social media. For example, look how many prominent females (politicians, etc) have been threatened with rape by keyboard warriors, people who you just know wouldn't actually even consider saying it face to face.
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Post by grampa on Feb 20, 2018 13:52:34 GMT
I genuinely think it’s a hopeless situation as any government who tried to introduce control would realistically face uprising in some states with risk of further bloodshed. Probably wouldn't be in government in the first place as they wouldn't get there without NRA support!
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Post by Tim on Feb 21, 2018 13:53:58 GMT
More insanity from our cousins across the water, courtesy of a BBC article www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43140105There's also a link to another story halfway down titled "The people who think mass shootings are staged" which is interesting and disturbing in equal measure.
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 21, 2018 14:04:37 GMT
Be nice if we could build a wall across the Atlantic......and make America pay for it, of course.
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Post by Tim on Feb 21, 2018 14:12:23 GMT
I've thought for a while that if I was Mexican I'd be encouraging the building of the wall.
In fact if I lived in Canada I'd be asking the question too!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 14:59:27 GMT
Sadly, the septics have a lot of puddle jumpers. Perhaps just remove recognition for their passports and see how they like waiting in a queue for up to four hours.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 0:54:57 GMT
I'm currently in the States and the news channels are saying that the NRA are rejecting the idea that the minimum age for buying a gun be raised. Who are these people and why are they so resistant to change?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 1:05:22 GMT
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Post by Martin on Feb 22, 2018 7:26:52 GMT
Latest idea is to arm teachers....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 8:18:22 GMT
It's almost impossible to know where to start in dissecting the wrongs and idiocies being displayed. But let's try.
Didn't alf say that firing a pistol over even a short distance with any accuracy is almost impossible? So the teachers will end up missing most of the time (and probably hitting other students - you'd need a euphemism well beyond 'friendly fire' for that). Maybe they would need assault rifles too?
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Post by Alex on Feb 22, 2018 8:26:26 GMT
Latest idea is to arm teachers.... So in answer to the title of this thread: Not anytime soon 🙄
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 22, 2018 9:43:05 GMT
The NRA would propose closing all schools indefinitely to prevent mass school shootings before changing any gun-laws at all, which wouldn't really make much difference to many of their younger advocates capability.
Guns are a part of American life and it will ever be thus even if hospital baby units were attacked by gun-toting white men.
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Post by michael on Feb 22, 2018 10:21:23 GMT
Trying to ban is an utter waste of time at the moment. I don't object to the fortification of schools as there will come a point where a large enough body of people will ask why they're doing this to their children and things then stand a change of changing.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 22, 2018 10:28:02 GMT
Just arm everyone, the kids, the teachers, the janitors, the dinner ladies and let them sort it out for themselves. It'll solve bullying, late homework, dropping litter in corridors and complaints about the food. Everything will run much smoother.
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 22, 2018 16:35:40 GMT
It's almost impossible to know where to start in dissecting the wrongs and idiocies being displayed. But let's try. Didn't alf say that firing a pistol over even a short distance with any accuracy is almost impossible? So the teachers will end up missing most of the time (and probably hitting other students - you'd need a euphemism well beyond 'friendly fire' for that). Maybe they would need assault rifles too? Unless you're very, very good, then yes. Very few are accurate past about 25 yards, if that, if I remember correctly. (Which I probably don't - it was a loooong time ago!)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 17:17:05 GMT
Short of getting in a lot of match shooting practice there is not much to improve that, to be honest the shoot for pay thing was never enforced while I was in after basic training, even on the big rifles. We did a lot of shooting pre NI tours and a little on pipe ranges over there, it seems nut jobs are about the only folk who shoot regularly. Then again I rope NRA in with the nut jobs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 8:29:59 GMT
As does almost everyone outside the US, it seems.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Feb 23, 2018 12:16:19 GMT
The Americans will continue to tie themselves in knots over this for years.
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