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Post by Nelson on Nov 29, 2017 22:43:19 GMT
Is is just me or do normal road tyres designed to be used all year round dramatically deteriorate when the outside temperatures drop?
I am using Michelin PS3's on 3 corners and a Goodyear Performance on the other, all have 5-6mm of tread and in good order but I have noticed only in the past fortnight that the wheels are starting to 'chatter'. I don't know how to best explain it but when on near to full full-lock say when reversing into a parking space or doing a U-turn the tyres seem to be losing grip and chatter across the road surface kinda like the brakes are stuck on and it feels like something is catching.
Brakes are good, ride is has gone harder, probably down to the lower road temperatures affecting the tyre compound making them harder but this doesn't happen in warmer conditions, it's funny that I remarked to my good lady wife that ''oh that's back again is it''.
I was in a multi storey car park recently and it happened when parking the car there, though it didn't happen in the summer when I visiting previously
Alignment, tracking, pressures all ok, though I did notice this evening when I checked the pressures that all round showed 31-32psi whereas I know that only a fortnight before using the same machine at my local Sainsburys that I had them all at 35psi.
Can tyre pressure be affected by lower ambient temperatures where I guess air is less dense and therefore bringing tyre pressures down??
...and in the winter in order to get better grip should you run with the same psi as per summer temperatures or reduce of increase pressures in order to get more grip??
Really don't like driving on such sporty tyres in the winter. The ride has got harder and with the greasy (tree leaf debris and rain makes road greasy) the experience is one taken with the odd bum twitch as you lose a bit of confidence. I even got the TC light to flicker in 3rd gear this evening on a full throttle boot (love the diesel torque)
I can't afford to run winter tyres this year. I know they work better in these conditions having used them before but this 'chattering' from my front tyres when on near full lock is only prominent in lower temperatures. Is this normal?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 8:39:49 GMT
I use Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetrics, and have no real issues with cold weather at all.
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 30, 2017 8:41:32 GMT
Sounds normal to me. The Subaru’s RE050As used to go like plastic in cold conditions. It’s also perfectly normal for tyre pressures to drop as air is more dense (less volume) when cold. It’s why tyre pressures should always be checked when cold.
I wouldn’t worry about not running winter tyres - just drive to the conditions.
I certainly notice the effect of tyre temperatures in the TVR. Not so much the Mazda which is also running PS3s.
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Post by Martin on Nov 30, 2017 9:25:37 GMT
Both cars are still on summer tyres as I haven’t had time to swap them over (this Saturday mornings job), but I haven’t experienced any issues other than a bit less grip than normal when the roads are damp. It was -2.5c this morning on the B Road between Silverstone and Banbury, but I just took it steady and it felt pretty normal (Boxster day today). I think it helps that the Boxster tyres are super soft, which is terrible for wear,but they warm up nicely and grip well.
I will feel happier and a bit more comfortable with the winter tyres on and still think having them is the right thing.
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Post by Blarno on Nov 30, 2017 9:32:54 GMT
Sounds normal to me. The Subaru’s RE050As used to go like plastic in cold conditions. It’s also perfectly normal for tyre pressures to drop as air is more dense (less volume) when cold. It’s why tyre pressures should always be checked when cold.
I wouldn’t worry about not running winter tyres - just drive to the conditions.I certainly notice the effect of tyre temperatures in the TVR. Not so much the Mazda which is also running PS3s. That right there is my mantra. I have tyres on my car and I drive on them all year round. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 30, 2017 9:44:48 GMT
The Cayman is bloody awful for low speed chatter. Its just the tyres scrubbing across the surface but feels and sounds horrid. I've just ordered 4 new Michelin PS4's to replace the P Zeros as the Cayman was getting rather lairy after last weekends track day at Silverstone which left the car with only a couple of mm on its tyres. I hoping the PS4's cure the chatter.
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Post by johnc on Nov 30, 2017 9:52:27 GMT
I get that shudder sometimes in multi-storey car parks when it is either wet or cold. It's just that there is less grip and you are generally dealing with a painted surface and some odd angles as you turn and go up ramps. Certainly in the cold the summer tyres go much harder and have less grip and at this time of year I always have to put another 1 or 2 psi in due to the cold air. I look forward to April when I can take one or two psi out as it warms up.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 30, 2017 10:13:51 GMT
I would like to see mandatory switching to Winter tyres in November, with fines for non-compliance. It might stop the roads become gridlocked at the first sign of a bit of slush.
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Post by Blarno on Nov 30, 2017 11:35:23 GMT
I would like to see mandatory switching to Winter tyres in November, with fines for non-compliance. It might stop the roads become gridlocked at the first sign of a bit of slush. If the government were to subsidise this, then fine, but some of us can't afford 2 sets of wheels and tyres. Also, I would say the roads becoming gridlocked is a function of people failing to adjust their driving style to the conditions. I've been doing 20k a year for the last 5 years or so and I have noticed that your average road user is a complete fucking moron, to put it bluntly. |
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 30, 2017 12:05:38 GMT
I would like to see mandatory switching to Winter tyres in November, with fines for non-compliance. It might stop the roads become gridlocked at the first sign of a bit of slush. If the government were to subsidise this, then fine, but some of us can't afford 2 sets of wheels and tyres. Also, I would say the roads becoming gridlocked is a function of people failing to adjust their driving style to the conditions. I've been doing 20k a year for the last 5 years or so and I have noticed that your average road user is a complete fucking moron, to put it bluntly. A lot of people should stay at home when it snows, rather than taking to Facebook to complain that the council haven’t cleared the roads within 30s of it snowing and they got stuck because of it rather than it being due to the wrong tyres or incompetence. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 30, 2017 12:13:59 GMT
Every safety initiative has had a cost - be it anti-lock brakes, airbags, compulsory fitment of seatbelts etc. Same goes for environmental advances - catalytic converters, EGRs, Euro 4, 5, 6 etc. Every time someone has said we can't afford this, the cost will have to be borne by the consumer, but we've done it anyway. Countries far less wealthy than ours insist on winter tyres from Nov. 1st and while there's an initial outlay, the costs balance out to an extent as you're not replacing your summer tyres so often. It would also have the added advantage of tyres being checked at least once a year when they are swopped over - particularly important if we go to 4 year MOTs. Can't see a downside, personally.
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Post by michael on Nov 30, 2017 12:38:36 GMT
I would like to see mandatory switching to Winter tyres in November, with fines for non-compliance. It might stop the roads become gridlocked at the first sign of a bit of slush. If the government were to subsidise this, then fine, but some of us can't afford 2 sets of wheels and tyres. I'd see it as a responsibility of owning a car. Agree that most drivers are morons though. |
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 30, 2017 14:01:14 GMT
The GC is going in for its winter tyre swap next Saturday. Snowed in the City this morning - we had swirling flurries for a good half an hour or more.
We don't bother for the Fiat.
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Post by michael on Nov 30, 2017 14:07:19 GMT
It has been snowing here all day. There's a slight covering which is very pretty to look at.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 14:59:48 GMT
Every safety initiative has had a cost - be it anti-lock brakes, airbags, compulsory fitment of seatbelts etc. Same goes for environmental advances - catalytic converters, EGRs, Euro 4, 5, 6 etc. Every time someone has said we can't afford this, the cost will have to be borne by the consumer, but we've done it anyway. Countries far less wealthy than ours insist on winter tyres from Nov. 1st and while there's an initial outlay, the costs balance out to an extent as you're not replacing your summer tyres so often. It would also have the added advantage of tyres being checked at least once a year when they are swopped over - particularly important if we go to 4 year MOTs. Can't see a downside, personally. I thought you were joking at first! |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 30, 2017 15:20:29 GMT
Every safety initiative has had a cost - be it anti-lock brakes, airbags, compulsory fitment of seatbelts etc. Same goes for environmental advances - catalytic converters, EGRs, Euro 4, 5, 6 etc. Every time someone has said we can't afford this, the cost will have to be borne by the consumer, but we've done it anyway. Countries far less wealthy than ours insist on winter tyres from Nov. 1st and while there's an initial outlay, the costs balance out to an extent as you're not replacing your summer tyres so often. It would also have the added advantage of tyres being checked at least once a year when they are swopped over - particularly important if we go to 4 year MOTs. Can't see a downside, personally. I thought you were joking at first! Never!  I've decided that, as a compromise, all cars must be fitted with All Season tyres and those that wish to can swop to summer tyres between 1st April and 1st Nov. Who said I couldn't compromise? |
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Post by Martin on Nov 30, 2017 15:23:21 GMT
I’m not saying they are essential, I managed without them for 25 years, but I don’t think there’s much downside other than the initial cost and even then they will be worth something when you change the car. Most of us wouldn’t put cheap tyres on to save a few quid and put up with reduced grip, the potential for increased stopping distance in an emergency etc. Having the right tyres for the conditions is the same imho.
Agree that a lot of drivers are morons. I didn’t see any difference in driving speed / distance this morning when it was -2.5 and a bit slippy.
I think the all season tyres as standard option is a good one. I’d fit something like a cross climate if I had an average family car (whatever one of those is....but I couldn’t think of a better way of putting it)
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 30, 2017 16:10:18 GMT
I was just chatting to our FD who was showing me photos his wife had taken of their street in Wynyard - with a good 8 inches of snow. A colleague who has a 13 plate Jaguar XF walked past chuckling, commenting on the problems I'm going to have getting home in a rear wheel drive BMW. I pointed out his Jag was RWD, to which he replied " Nah, mate - mine's front wheel drive, I'll just stick it in Snow mode and cruise home" I bet the Snow mode on his Jag isn't as good as the Snow mode on my Lexus was. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 16:25:37 GMT
Was he joking?!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 30, 2017 16:39:12 GMT
Nope dead serious. He had an X Type until two years ago and assumed the XF was the same. I had to show him Wikipedia to convince him. |
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Post by grampa on Nov 30, 2017 16:50:19 GMT
Every safety initiative has had a cost - be it anti-lock brakes, airbags, compulsory fitment of seatbelts etc. Same goes for environmental advances - catalytic converters, EGRs, Euro 4, 5, 6 etc. Every time someone has said we can't afford this, the cost will have to be borne by the consumer, but we've done it anyway. Countries far less wealthy than ours insist on winter tyres from Nov. 1st and while there's an initial outlay, the costs balance out to an extent as you're not replacing your summer tyres so often. It would also have the added advantage of tyres being checked at least once a year when they are swopped over - particularly important if we go to 4 year MOTs. Can't see a downside, personally. I'd be pretty pissed off if they made switching to winter tyres compulsory - if I had a daily commute in a 'harsher' part of the country, I would probably get a set, but for where I live coupled with the use I make of the car, it would be £800+ for maybe 1 or 2 journeys when I would find them useful. If it's a day when I would really feel the benefits, the best option for me is to book a taxi. |
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Post by michael on Nov 30, 2017 16:53:27 GMT
I'd be pretty pissed off if they made switching to winter tyres compulsory - if I had a daily commute in a 'harsher' part of the country, I would probably get a set, but for where I live coupled with the use I make of the car, it would be £800+ for maybe 1 or 2 journeys when I would find them useful. If it's a day when I would really feel the benefits, the best option for me is to book a taxi. It's about as likely to happen as banning people from whining about the roads and taking responsibility for their actions. |
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 30, 2017 17:13:16 GMT
I've had winter wheel sets for at least 15 years due to my long-standing penchant for driving to the Alps in winter to go skiing. The first car I had a set of winter tyres for was my Mk2 Golf GTI 16v some 17 yrs ago, which were on a set of G60 alloys, and I even had a second set of OE alloys for the Z1 shod with winter tyres.
By contrast, I did have a set of winter tyres for the Alfa in Russia but didn't bother with a second set of alloys as I simply kept the winter tyres on all year round, just in case. It also helped on crappy Russian roads that they were more robust.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 18:12:31 GMT
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Post by johnc on Nov 30, 2017 18:17:59 GMT
Quite a few of the tyre places around here refuse to fit second hand tyres...... stating that it's not safe to do so. That's code for can't be arsed! |
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 30, 2017 18:55:05 GMT
..... I have noticed only in the past fortnight that the wheels are starting to 'chatter'. I don't know how to best explain it but when on near to full full-lock say when reversing into a parking space or doing a U-turn the tyres seem to be losing grip and chatter across the road surface kinda like the brakes are stuck on and it feels like something is catching. (snip) Can tyre pressure be affected by lower ambient temperatures where I guess air is less dense and therefore bringing tyre pressures down?? ...and in the winter in order to get better grip should you run with the same psi as per summer temperatures or reduce of increase pressures in order to get more grip?? For many years I have noted that tyre pressures seem to vary when the weather changes... typically twice per year, the onset of spring and the onset of winter, and I try hard to check and adjust my cars' tyre pressures to "reset" them to normal. You shouldn't drop the pressures in winter to try to get more grip (IMHO) - only when there is snow on the roads should you consider doing this, and then only when you believe that you need extra traction. Tyres chattering on lock - yes they will do this because the front wheels do not stay parallel when you steer and it gets worse as you apply more lock. The rear wheels are also "skidding" slightly as you turn and modern tyre compounds seem to amplify the odd sensation as the tread blocks slide across the road surface when you turn..... it's generally worse in car parks as many have very smooth surfaces so the tyre rubber slips more easily and tends to make more noise when doing so, compared to tarmaced roads |
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Post by Boxer6 on Nov 30, 2017 23:07:38 GMT
I use Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetrics, and have no real issues with cold weather at all. I had a pair of these put on the front of mine a couple of weeks ago, with the PS3's still on the rears. Not noticed any major differences really, except the sidewalls of the Goodyears "bulge" a lot more than any other tyres I've had on it; they're the correct 2.3 bar too, so I' assuming they have a less stiff sidewall. |
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Post by grampa on Dec 1, 2017 10:54:36 GMT
Quite a few of the tyre places around here refuse to fit second hand tyres...... stating that it's not safe to do so. That's code for can't be arsed! More likely in this day and age worried about liability. |
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Post by PG on Dec 1, 2017 11:37:55 GMT
Nope dead serious. He had an X Type until two years ago and assumed the XF was the same. I had to show him Wikipedia to convince him. Re the comment above about most drivers being morons - is this man the poster child? What a muppet. |
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Post by PG on Dec 1, 2017 11:40:53 GMT
I'd be pretty pissed off if they made switching to winter tyres compulsory - if I had a daily commute in a 'harsher' part of the country, I would probably get a set, but for where I live coupled with the use I make of the car, it would be £800+ for maybe 1 or 2 journeys when I would find them useful. If it's a day when I would really feel the benefits, the best option for me is to book a taxi. It's about as likely to happen as banning people from whining about the roads and taking responsibility for their actions. As so many private cars are bought on PCP and most company cars are leased, the cost of the extra tyres (or wheels and tyres as a choice) just gets added into the monthly cost. That is what happens on leases in countries that require winters or where they are very common. So once those cars come onto the second hand market, there'd be far more sets of suitable wheels and winter tyres available for the second hand market. |
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