MAGA...

When you put forward a candidate that your own party didn’t even vote for then claim the other side are the undemocratic ones you’re never going to win the swing states. Americans are very blinkered in their political view and calling out democracy being at risk when you’ve fallen at the first hurdle of democracy is a clear message for four years time when there will be two spanking new candidates that MUST be unconditionally backed by their respective parties.

I’ve been laughing my arse off all morning to be fair. Can’t wait for Trump’s first G8…..

TBF, ignoring the madness in the last year of his rule, the last time he was in charge he did a good job with foreign policy and there are some real issues out there that he can hopefully have some input into for the good.

The last lot really did nothing to strengthen the US and keep the world in line.

So I shall look at the potential positives rather then the list of possible negatives.

Probably not an ideal time to have a Labour government I guess and with the US comes first initiative, I'm not sure where that will leave our trading agreement but I'm sure we can send out Farage to show some love and call in those favours.

Of course the China issue might come to head and a squabble between those 2 can't be good and we'll have to back the US plays.

I think the best the UK can hope for is that the division/tariffs/trade war between the US and the EU doesn't get too fruity otherwise we will be sitting on the outside unable to get in anywhere, looking and feeling like a non entity. 

I think there is a widely held view in diplomatic, political and business circles that the Democrats are the architects of this particular mess. It doesn't make it any less of a mess though.

Surely not. 

What do we do if the Orange Fascist wants to do another ego trip State Visit? I cannot see Charles or William being keen.

He will and we embrace it. Bloody bad for business to do anything else. It’s only Donald trump not pol pot.

Absolutely.

At the risk of sounding like an apologist, we are apparently in the midst of “Islamophobia Awareness Month” and the items highlighted fit their MO as well when in power, with the substitution of “deportations” for “deaths” and no chance of even a token opposition. Why is it wrong when a western man says and promotes things that align with his agenda but we need to be apologists towards those that promote things that align with a similar agenda but under a different umbrella? 

I wasn’t referring to any individual, and definitely no one on here, but rather to the western media and mainstream political parties. Why are we simultaneously having one thing rammed down our throats whilst being told the other is unacceptable?

No can do under the current rules unfortunately, that would be fun though wouldn't it.  

And there, in a nutshell is why Trump won. Enough people are fed up with being lectured at, demonised generally made to feel that their views are in some way abhorrent that they will vote for somebody who stands with them. And that is something the Democrats simply fail to understand.

However much Trump might be for or against women's rights, Harris can hardly claim the high ground while saying that men can go into women's changing rooms and play in female sport.      

Er, Trump had plenty of celebs as well, including the previously mentioned Musk.


Ref Lammy, I've seen plenty of pro-Trump people saying the same as this while completely ignoring what Trump's own VP said much more recently.......

It is highly disappointing, but I'm going to try not to panic as much as some. I was astounded when he came back as favourite for the Republican nomination, since then this has looked increasingly likely. 

Clearly, people think very differently - I've given up being surprised by election results. For me there is a certain threshold of character traits, honesty and morality needed for public office. Boris missed that level, I didn't vote for him. Trump misses it by a mile. He seems like a narcissistic idiot who can accept no wrong, plays fast and loose with the law, and has clearly sexually assaulted scores of women. The recording where he joked about groping women against their will that came out in the first campaign is inexcusable to me. Add to that the 26 separate current women filing complaints against him (and extrapolate the Fayed-like real numbers when many doubtless took their money quietly, or are too scared to raise it) and I simply cannot understand why more than a small minority of women would vote for him. His immigrant comments are not much better, but he got a decent chunk of the Latino vote too. And the Trump/Musk comments on Ukraine are again unacceptable to be on a basic human level, you would think the pro-gun/ex military crew in the Republican party would be against a communist bully, but apparently not. 

What has become very clear, is that its hard to win an election when living standards are dropping. Macro economic data being less important to voters than the prices of common goods - even if some headline figures are OK, if food and rent/mortgages and fuel are way up, that's what matters. Also, people are happier voting for the promise of something, than they are heeding warnings about the dangers of change. Thirdly, unchecked immigration is worrying people a lot, and not just closet racists - the West cannot simply accept everyone who lives in a country without proper human rights, and needs to do more to promote this abroad. 

That I get. What really depresses me about the modern world - and AI is about to make this a LOT worse - is the death of truth. Truly expert scientists, economists, and lifelong politicians of the least biased sort, are not considered any different to any random person ranting on YouTube. There was already a lot of disinformation out there, it was at a manageable level for a time until the likes of Trump saw the opportunity to jump on the "fake news" bandwagon to decry anything they didn't like. Now its a feeding frenzy and more and more people do not get their "information" from trusted sources.

Fake news has also been allied with attack politics. Politics used to be mostly about the policies and somewhat about the personalities, with a degree of respect on all sides.  Now it seems a horrible place to be and I feel for MP's and politicians of all creeds and the genuine danger and constant harassment they all face. On this front I think US politics is hugely misogynistic. If you look at the level of misdemeanour/poor PR from Hilary or Kamala, it doesn't total a percent of the stuff Trump has done all his life. But it gets amplified out of all proportion in a quite disgusting way when it's aimed at a woman, in the US more so than in Europe. 

So yes, buckle up. Its not all bad - the "CEO as president" thing is quite interesting, I think some of the "certainties" of western politics like "free trade = always good" are not necessarily fit for purpose now (though ironically the UK will be very hard hit if Trump carries out his stated tariffs - and we got sod all out of him under Boris so don't hold your breath for a deal under Labour). I don't see this as the end of US democracy, for historic reasons they will not stand for it (in the same way the Russians never had it enough to know what they lost). I like his hawkish stance on China - and (if kept under control) Iran, and though I despise his chumminess with Putin, nothing was given away last time. To deal with Russia - which is more our issue than the US's - Europe has to grow a pair, and has been tentatively doing so since the Ukraine invasion. I can't see it happening re: China (as Chinese goods are largely made with German machines) but re: Russia, Europe needs to be a LOT firmer. It's going to hurt. But (and Germany needs to note this more than anyone) a country with a strong leadership is harder to get away with poking, than one with a constitutional mess. 

Definitely agree that Harris came across at patronising.
Not sure Musk and Rogan speak to normal Americans though, unless normal Americans are waaaay down the conspiracy rabbit hole of course.

I'm hopeful that a Trump presidency won't be full of all the things he spoke about on the campaign trail but I think a lot of it is out of his hands due to the people behind him (and possibly moreso behind Vance).