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Post by johnc on Nov 8, 2022 12:33:53 GMT
This is the first paragraph of an e-mail I have just received from Instavolt:
"We are writing to inform you of an update to our tariff. From 15th November 2022, charging on the InstaVolt network will cost 75p per kWh for all customers across all payment types."
So in basic terms, a full battery charge for the i-Pace would cost 95 x £0.75 = £71.25, to go perhaps 200 miles at motorway speeds on a warm summer's day. That would buy you around 9.25 gallons of petrol so the equivalent is now around 21.5mpg for the EV if you are charging away from home.
I should also note that Instavolt were stating that their electricity has 20% VAT added and that they are lobbying Government to reduce the VAT rate to 5%, the same as home users. This would reduce the cost to c66p/kWh
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Post by michael on Nov 8, 2022 13:25:37 GMT
I don’t think the government should be reducing the VAT.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 8, 2022 14:03:39 GMT
I don’t think the government should be reducing the VAT. Agreed. If they do that for one type of car user they can do it for others.
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Post by bryan on Nov 8, 2022 14:10:10 GMT
This is the first paragraph of an e-mail I have just received from Instavolt: "We are writing to inform you of an update to our tariff. From 15th November 2022, charging on the InstaVolt network will cost 75p per kWh for all customers across all payment types." So in basic terms, a full battery charge for the i-Pace would cost 95 x £0.75 = £71.25, to go perhaps 200 miles at motorway speeds on a warm summer's day. That would buy you around 9.25 gallons of petrol so the equivalent is now around 21.5mpg for the EV if you are charging away from home. I should also note that Instavolt were stating that their electricity has 20% VAT added and that they are lobbying Government to reduce the VAT rate to 5%, the same as home users. This would reduce the cost to c66p/kWh On those prices the Yeti would do around 450miles easy if you filed at Costco, possibly 500. I get 21mpg out of the S4 and know which I'd rather drive!
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 8, 2022 14:32:10 GMT
Actually makes the Gorilla look financially efficient. I suppose those glueing themselves to the M25 will tell us there’s a price worth paying.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 8, 2022 14:37:12 GMT
This is the first paragraph of an e-mail I have just received from Instavolt: "We are writing to inform you of an update to our tariff. From 15th November 2022, charging on the InstaVolt network will cost 75p per kWh for all customers across all payment types." So in basic terms, a full battery charge for the i-Pace would cost 95 x £0.75 = £71.25, to go perhaps 200 miles at motorway speeds on a warm summer's day. That would buy you around 9.25 gallons of petrol so the equivalent is now around 21.5mpg for the EV if you are charging away from home. I should also note that Instavolt were stating that their electricity has 20% VAT added and that they are lobbying Government to reduce the VAT rate to 5%, the same as home users. This would reduce the cost to c66p/kWh How much is it to charge the car from your home unit?
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Post by michael on Nov 8, 2022 14:41:12 GMT
I don’t think the government should be reducing the VAT. Agreed. If they do that for one type of car user they can do it for others. It would be immoral. So much of the green agenda is wealth transfer by taxing the poor to pay the rich. And yet, people kick off when tax changes are proposed to allow hard workers to keep the money they’ve earned. .
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Post by PG on Nov 8, 2022 17:31:48 GMT
Well the "golden age" of EV motoring - low tax, low refuel costs - was rather short.
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Post by johnc on Nov 8, 2022 18:29:37 GMT
This is the first paragraph of an e-mail I have just received from Instavolt: "We are writing to inform you of an update to our tariff. From 15th November 2022, charging on the InstaVolt network will cost 75p per kWh for all customers across all payment types." So in basic terms, a full battery charge for the i-Pace would cost 95 x £0.75 = £71.25, to go perhaps 200 miles at motorway speeds on a warm summer's day. That would buy you around 9.25 gallons of petrol so the equivalent is now around 21.5mpg for the EV if you are charging away from home. I should also note that Instavolt were stating that their electricity has 20% VAT added and that they are lobbying Government to reduce the VAT rate to 5%, the same as home users. This would reduce the cost to c66p/kWh How much is it to charge the car from your home unit? I think the cost is currently 28p/kWh or c58mpg
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Post by Martin on Nov 8, 2022 19:13:51 GMT
Well the "golden age" of EV motoring - low tax, low refuel costs - was rather short. Still low tax if you have one as a company car, but that won’t last too long.
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Post by Alex on Nov 8, 2022 21:37:26 GMT
I don’t think the government should be reducing the VAT. Agreed. If they do that for one type of car user they can do it for others. It could also very well be argued that those who can afford a high end EV are not the ones in dire need of government support in order to better afford the cost of fast charging stations. I know not everyone driving an EV is rich but if we have to prioritise who gets help with the cost of energy I can see this not being that near the top of the pile.
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Post by johnc on Nov 10, 2022 19:20:02 GMT
Here's the proof from Whatcar.
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Post by rodge on Nov 26, 2022 8:44:49 GMT
Here's the proof from Whatcar. Watched this yesterday. Was surprised at the result and had me thinking about something a friend of mine experienced in his brand new Polestar 2. The battery loses charge over time. He parked his car at my parents place and over 10 days, it lost 7-10% charge.
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Post by humphreythepug on Dec 2, 2022 8:26:39 GMT
EV sales new and used, nationally have dropped off a cliff in the past couple of months, we've 3 50kWh ZOE's that we can't shift, in the not too distant past we could sell each used ZOE 3 or 4 times over, now not a sniff, the book drop in the past month on each was £900.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 2, 2022 9:57:09 GMT
The current inflation levels (somehow named as “cost of living crisis” in the media) demonstrate that the only way to alter mass consumer behaviour is via a price-value gauge.
When Diseasal was the tax efficient option for company car users the roads were awash with chuggers. When the price of electricity was low and there was a tax benefit EVs suddenly became the thing to have. When there was no C-Charge PHEV sales in the Home Counties no doubt increased.
Now that the electricity spike price is more expensive than the LME platinum spot-price EVs are about as welcome amongst private users as Nigel Farage would be in a south London steel-drum band.
Which means almost no one was buying diesels, EVs or PHEVs for the holier-than-thou environment reasons. It’s all about the money. Who’d have thought……..?
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Post by johnc on Dec 2, 2022 11:29:18 GMT
And HMRC have just increased their mileage allowance for EV's to 8p/mile. Your average EV will do less than 3 miles/kWh. At motorway speeds it could easily be 2 miles/kWh. As I posted recently InstaVolt are charging 75p/kWh which is a cost per mile of between 25p and 37.5p/mile. Even home charging costs between 10p and 15p/mile.
Tax is supposed to be fair!!!
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 2, 2022 11:48:10 GMT
EV sales new and used, nationally have dropped off a cliff in the past couple of months, we've 3 50kWh ZOE's that we can't shift, in the not too distant past we could sell each used ZOE 3 or 4 times over, now not a sniff, the book drop in the past month on each was £900. Is that all sales or EV in particular?
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Post by Tim on Dec 2, 2022 12:14:37 GMT
And HMRC have just increased their mileage allowance for EV's to 8p/mile. Your average EV will do less than 3 miles/kWh. At motorway speeds it could easily be 2 miles/kWh. As I posted recently InstaVolt are charging 75p/kWh which is a cost per mile of between 25p and 37.5p/mile. Even home charging costs between 10p and 15p/mile. Tax is supposed to be fair!!! Yes but I remember getting 37p/mile in 1996 or 7 but 25 years later its only 45p so why should electric be treated any better?
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Post by Martin on Dec 2, 2022 17:40:17 GMT
And HMRC have just increased their mileage allowance for EV's to 8p/mile. Your average EV will do less than 3 miles/kWh. At motorway speeds it could easily be 2 miles/kWh. As I posted recently InstaVolt are charging 75p/kWh which is a cost per mile of between 25p and 37.5p/mile. Even home charging costs between 10p and 15p/mile. Tax is supposed to be fair!!! Yes but I remember getting 37p/mile in 1996 or 7 but 25 years later its only 45p so why should electric be treated any better? Exactly. I get 22p per mile and am lucky if I can get it to 30p. Company EV drivers are doing to be compensated over and above the HMRC rate (which will be taxed of course), a concept I struggled with when we discussed it at the last Exec meeting. Partly because I under recover significantly but also because they’ve all made huge savings in tax by moving to an EV. I have very little sympathy, but I would have been a line voice in the meeting.
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Post by johnc on Dec 2, 2022 17:56:22 GMT
I agree with both Martin and Tim's comments - I would just like to see HMRC recognise the true cost to individuals of putting fuel of any sort in their tank when they are paying for fuel for business use. Why should the excess be taxed when it doesn't even compensate for the amount spent. I think this says a lot about HMRC's current attitude to taxpayers in general at the moment. It's not about being fair it's about screwing everything they can get out of taxpayers. I would far rather have a system where we all pay another 1p in income tax but the tax allowances are fair.
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Post by humphreythepug on Dec 4, 2022 7:59:54 GMT
EV sales new and used, nationally have dropped off a cliff in the past couple of months, we've 3 50kWh ZOE's that we can't shift, in the not too distant past we could sell each used ZOE 3 or 4 times over, now not a sniff, the book drop in the past month on each was £900. Is that all sales or EV in particular? All sales have dropped to a degree, I would say more due to the time of year as it does get quieter as Christmas approaches, however EV sales have dropped to a far greater degree.
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 4, 2022 10:10:00 GMT
The VSCC was trialling an alternative fuel at the Bicester driving tests yesterday. Those using it made absolutely no alterations to their cars, used no additives and reported their cars as running as well as ever.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 4, 2022 12:06:46 GMT
The VSCC was trialling an alternative fuel at the Bicester driving tests yesterday. Those using it made absolutely no alterations to their cars, used no additives and reported their cars as running as well as ever. What was it? Synthetic / plant based fuels that offer the ability to maintain the current worldwide fleet and refuelling infrastructure should be more of a target than the idiocy of trying to create an entirely new fleet of non-combustion engines in a very short space of time.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2022 12:20:32 GMT
Apparently Porsche have an alternative fuel ready for classic cars, there is some talk of it being available via dealers but that topic has gone very quiet for a while.
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Post by michael on Dec 5, 2022 18:12:41 GMT
And HMRC have just increased their mileage allowance for EV's to 8p/mile. Your average EV will do less than 3 miles/kWh. At motorway speeds it could easily be 2 miles/kWh. As I posted recently InstaVolt are charging 75p/kWh which is a cost per mile of between 25p and 37.5p/mile. Even home charging costs between 10p and 15p/mile. Tax is supposed to be fair!!! The UK energy grid is currently producing at 410g per kilowatt which makes the average electric car a lot more CO2 intensive than an average ICE car like a 520d. Are company cars still taxed on emissions? We really need a serious conversation about what the objective of all this as it’s a losing situation for too many people.
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Post by johnc on Dec 5, 2022 19:09:18 GMT
Company cars are taxed on emissions with diesels having a 4% surcharge. A car emitting between 51 and 54g/km of CO2 has a benefit in kind of 15% of the list price when new. Every extra 5g/km gains one more % up to 37% max which is basically 160g/km.
If you look at your average ICE car it will be sitting somewhere around the 125/130g/km, so, say a BIK of 30% of list price when new - no wonder people take the cash instead.
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Post by michael on Dec 5, 2022 19:13:13 GMT
There’s a lot wrong with this system.
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Post by Martin on Dec 5, 2022 19:14:31 GMT
And HMRC have just increased their mileage allowance for EV's to 8p/mile. Your average EV will do less than 3 miles/kWh. At motorway speeds it could easily be 2 miles/kWh. As I posted recently InstaVolt are charging 75p/kWh which is a cost per mile of between 25p and 37.5p/mile. Even home charging costs between 10p and 15p/mile. Tax is supposed to be fair!!! The UK energy grid is currently producing at 410g per kilowatt which makes the average electric car a lot more CO2 intensive than an average ICE car like a 520d. Are company cars still taxed on emissions? We really need a serious conversation about what the objective of all this as it’s a losing situation for too many people. Massively so. eg (based on 40% tax band) 520d - List price £46k - Tax £5,500 pa 530e - List price £55k - Tax £2,640 pa I4 40 - List price £55k - Tax £439 pa So you'd save £5k a year of £420 a month swapping your 520d for the more expensive I4. A couple of other examples....which shows how daft the system is: Range Rover p510e AB - List price £131k - Tax £4,200 pa Taycan Turbo S ST - List price £144k - Tax £1,147 pa
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Post by michael on Dec 6, 2022 18:40:42 GMT
The I4 is still dirtier than a 520d in the UK today (before we even think about how it was made) but in Germany the kilowatt average is 741g so those electric car drivers would be better off in a Discovery. It was even worse when they charged their cars last night at 797g/kw. Sustainable.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 10, 2022 20:31:18 GMT
I was having an in-depth conversation about this with a couple of people at a sustainable finance event at Mansion House this week. It is very difficult to convince people on the synthetic fuel argument (which I favour). The EV juggernaut has got so much momentum that even bright people are not stopping to consider whether it is the right course of action. I can’t help thinking that too many influential people have too much money invested in it to want to backtrack.
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