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Post by michael on Nov 23, 2022 16:21:58 GMT
Are you talking now about environmental sustainability or economic sustainability? You suggested the financial sector had taken a new interest in Green issues so the assumption was the environmental use of the term. Economic sustainability is nothing new. The point is that economic sustainability of a business is becoming inextricably linked with environmental sustainability. And as Jeff says, this isn’t about rampant loony greenism. It’s actually about maintaining a planet that we find a pleasant place to inhabit. Not sure that many people ought to have an objection to that, if they sat down and properly thought it through. But when we do sit down and think about it, we realise it’s a disaster. The investment in unreliable sources of energy like wind , to detriment of reliable sources of energy, like nuclear, has increased our reliance on gas. Even Germany is now looking to increase its consumption of coal (filthy lignite no less) thanks to the rush to Green and the instability this has caused to the energy mix. Our drive to reduce local carbon production has resulted in increased offshoring of manufacturing with increased carbon emissions from transport requirements. The drive to electric cars is another short sighted venture. Six times greater copper consumption in addition to the scarcity of the rare materials required to make them - the result of this is that electric cars increase in cost the more popular they become rather than become more affordable - its a Green measure which is sure to wipe out large parts of the European car manufacturing sector. Which examples of economic sustainability are making the world a better place?
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Post by michael on Nov 23, 2022 16:29:19 GMT
Hmmmm. Remind me which governmental department Nick Clegg has been running since 2015? Pretty sure Cameron, et al could've steamrollered the LibDems into agreeing if they'd actually tried. They did try. With a coalition government steamrolling isn’t an option. Out of coalition the majority government was able to sign off on building nuclear.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 23, 2022 22:23:05 GMT
Remind me which governmental department Nick Clegg has been running since 2015? Pretty sure Cameron, et al could've steamrollered the LibDems into agreeing if they'd actually tried. On the subject of nuclear power I can remember it being a very small part of the geography syllabus (!) when I was at high school in the mid-80s and the apparent joy at how cheap an energy source it was. Not to mention that the UK were, if not leaders then certainly up there with everyone else. Now we're left effectively paying the R&D costs for nukes for some French state owned power company that can't actually even get the damned things to work The French have 56 reactors so they can certainly make the things work. What they do have is an issue with stress corrosion cracking in some of the pipe work near the reactor core in some reactors and they are now checking for similar cracking in others. They have agreed a repair programme with the regulator but it’s not a quick fix.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 23, 2022 23:17:38 GMT
I think Tim is talking about the European Pressurised Reactor (EPR) model which is being built in Hinckley. The ones in Flamanville (unfortunate name for a town with a nuclear reactor) and Olkiluoto were over a decade late each and the commissioning of the hot bits was a chunk of the delay. HPC will still be a test of the reactor model which already has a designed replacement (the inventively named “EPR2”).
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Post by Tim on Nov 24, 2022 8:47:30 GMT
Yeah that one.
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Post by johnc on Nov 24, 2022 11:51:14 GMT
Should they not redesign the bits that break before they weld the whole thing together? If there is a version 2 it's surely not too late to incorporate it!
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 24, 2022 12:16:12 GMT
Should they not redesign the bits that break before they weld the whole thing together? If there is a version 2 it's surely not too late to incorporate it! Nah. It’s the whole reactor that’s been redesigned and I’m not sure how far down the road EPR2 is, although the reason for 2’s development was that it was a fuck sight cheaper. HPC needs to start pushing out electricity as soon as possible so a change now would be uneconomic in the long term. There’s currently a DCO out on a 500MW PV farm, the biggest unprecedented item of which will be a ginormous battery. If it’s viable more will follow so instead of rapeseed field we’ll be seeing “solar” panels.
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Post by Alex on Nov 24, 2022 22:22:32 GMT
It troubles me that we are using large swathes of our arable land to place solar panels when there is a potential for food security to be just as big an issue as energy security in the medium term. Surely it makes more sense to put them on the roofs of all these big warehouses and data centres we're building which have nice big expansive flat roofs.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 24, 2022 22:35:11 GMT
It troubles me that we are using large swathes of our arable land to place solar panels when there is a potential for food security to be just as big an issue as energy security in the medium term. Surely it makes more sense to put them on the roofs of all these big warehouses and data centres we're building which have nice big expansive flat roofs. The scale of this solar farm and its required proximity to the grid and the battery via its own sub-station means individual building roofs are not a viable option.
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 24, 2022 22:39:09 GMT
To be fair, the majority of the solar farms I've seen alongside the A1 are used for grazing sheep still.
As to environmental and financial sustainability. Some of the environmental side is green loony stuff.
All residential planning of new developments in some council areas has been put on hold indefinitely due to Nitrate Neutrality. The councils don't know how to deal with it so they have stopped all development. It's ridiculous virtue signalling nonsense and is stifling development by small businesses like myself.
Surely a levy on water rates ought to cover such legislation. Somebody is going to make a killing advising on this nonsense and the ultimate cost is going to be paid by small businesses that can least afford it.
I have a large terraced property that is currently offices, but due to the local council installing a cycle lane and removing all public parking from surrounding roads and making them residents only, it has killed its viability as a commercial property. However, I can't apply for conversion to residential, despite office to residential being permitted development down to this stupid nitrate thing. Meanwhile, I'm stuck in limbo trying to see it as is or wait indefinitely paying full business rates for the privilege. 🤬
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Post by Alex on Nov 24, 2022 22:44:10 GMT
I get that from the sense of putting something that big in one place but I do still think we could achieve just as good an effect by using the UK's rooftops rather than fields. I personally think solar PV should be mandatory on all new build houses. It would probably only add a few grand to the cost per house which is negligible given current high house prices and will be an easy way to reduce the carbon emissions of our housing stock. (I am aware that surging mortgage rates probably puts a kibosh on that for now).
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 24, 2022 22:48:53 GMT
The developer building opposite me had to put solar panels on to get it to pass EPC. I agree, it should be mandatory.
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 25, 2022 7:21:09 GMT
I though roof mounted solar panels had been mandatory for almost a decade. When my late father was having my parents "new" house designed in 2012/2013 they had to put solar panels on the roof to get planning permission
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Post by johnc on Nov 25, 2022 8:18:55 GMT
I though roof mounted solar panels had been mandatory for almost a decade. When my late father was having my parents "new" house designed in 2012/2013 they had to put solar panels on the roof to get planning permission Not mandatory at all and it depends on the development and the area. A new build estate about 10 miles from us had a requirement to instal solar panels on the roofs of the houses - that is exactly what the builder did. However due to the naivety of the local planning office, they didn't specify that there needed to be anything other than the panels, so that's what they have! We know someone who lives on the estate and he has been told it will be just as expensive to put all the wiring and electronics in to make them work, as it would have been to install from scratch with new panels. My brother is a senior planning officer in charge of his town and surrounding area - I can tell you first hand that common sense doesn't run very deep in planning departments and they are more interested in the whole holistic ideal. He told me recently when I complained about a square box extension that was put on a house down the road which looks completely out of place, "it is important that you can look at the house and see the timeline of changes that have been made". FFS it has the architectural merit of a coloured lego brick and a sympathetic extension looking the same/similar to the existing house would have been a thousand times better.
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Post by Tim on Nov 25, 2022 8:47:05 GMT
Most of the warehouse/factory type buildings in my part of the world have extensive solar panels on the roof, as do the majority of farm sheds. I was looking at small wind turbines recently - they're about £1k and have vertical blades rather than being propeller type. Something like this. www.tesup.co.uk/product-page/atlasx-wind-turbine-generator-houseMy only concern would be that my garden is often probably too windy for it
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Post by franki68 on Nov 25, 2022 12:35:16 GMT
Most of the warehouse/factory type buildings in my part of the world have extensive solar panels on the roof, as do the majority of farm sheds. I was looking at small wind turbines recently - they're about £1k and have vertical blades rather than being propeller type. Something like this. www.tesup.co.uk/product-page/atlasx-wind-turbine-generator-houseMy only concern would be that my garden is often probably too windy for it Too windy ? That is really interesting though,just moved house and the wind is pretty strong and I had no idea these small turbines even existed.
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Post by johnc on Nov 25, 2022 12:47:50 GMT
Given the review that turbine gets I think I would be steering clear of that one.
However I think a wind turbine in Scotland is a great idea and is something I have wanted for a long time. In the cold dark winter when it is generally windy and solar is hardly efficient, I reckon it would be perfect. I am not sure if there are any planning restrictions though.
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Post by Tim on Nov 25, 2022 12:56:45 GMT
Most of the warehouse/factory type buildings in my part of the world have extensive solar panels on the roof, as do the majority of farm sheds. I was looking at small wind turbines recently - they're about £1k and have vertical blades rather than being propeller type. Something like this. www.tesup.co.uk/product-page/atlasx-wind-turbine-generator-houseMy only concern would be that my garden is often probably too windy for it Too windy ? That is really interesting though,just moved house and the wind is pretty strong and I had no idea these small turbines even existed. The house is on the side of a hill with nothing to deflect the wind , the prevailing south west wind hits the house at a 45 degree angle. My brother in law was looking at these things which is what first made me aware of them. I hadn't looked at the reviews - apparently its a scam.
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Post by johnc on Nov 25, 2022 13:13:21 GMT
There is a farm near us with a few of the non bladed turbines and they seem to move even in light winds. I think searches for the "non Amazon" turbines might result in a better result.
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Post by Martin on Nov 25, 2022 13:15:17 GMT
There's a house I regularly walk past with a non bladed turbine, it's at the end of a road but fairly sheltered and I'm pretty sure it's always spinning.
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Post by Tim on Nov 25, 2022 14:57:34 GMT
A house near us has 2 of the more normal wind turbines, albeit they have a triangular blade with the point cut off, and they are spinning even on a still day. I'd say the poles they're on are 30 feet high.
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Post by Alex on Nov 25, 2022 15:54:58 GMT
I though roof mounted solar panels had been mandatory for almost a decade. When my late father was having my parents "new" house designed in 2012/2013 they had to put solar panels on the roof to get planning permission Not mandatory but our house had them as the estate is on green belt land. Ours is one of the earlier builds so we have 8 panels but those built later on have either 1 or 2 panels even on some of the 4 or 5 bed homes so we are producing a lot of electricity, so much so my summertime energy bills have been as low as £30/month and most of that is the service charge (that was back when energy was cheap!)
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Post by michael on Nov 28, 2022 16:28:25 GMT
Because it’s not very windy at the moment, and the sun being masked by mist across much of the country, so we’re having to burn more gas to make up the shortfall. The result is tomorrow evening’s electricity prices are set to hit the second highest price ever recorded.
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Post by johnc on Nov 28, 2022 17:01:01 GMT
We are using about 25% less gas and 20% less electricity than we were last year and our monthly DD is just under 3 times what it was 18 months ago!
We turn off lights, everything is LED, we use the microwave instead of the oven and if we use the oven we use the small one instead of the big one. The dishwasher doesn't go on until it is full or it smells and we hardly use the tumble drier any more - all of that and it only saves 20%. I want to know what is happening to the other 80%. I appreciate that a certain Jaguar probably eats about £40/£50 a month but still how are we using nearly £2,500 worth of electricity?
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Post by michael on Nov 28, 2022 17:33:28 GMT
You’re paying inflated gas prices because it has become the fuel that takes up the slack when the wind doesn’t blow and/or the sun doesn’t shine. On top of this carbon taxes pay for the windmills even when the wind doesn’t blow. Good investment for those who can afford to invest but paid for disproportionately by those less fortunate.
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Post by michael on Nov 29, 2022 9:25:57 GMT
This is chart represents electricity generation sources from yesterday. Orange is gas with solar in yellow. Wind is the light blue (cyan) line. We’ve spent £70billion on wind.
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Post by bryan on Nov 29, 2022 14:06:16 GMT
Is that chart from Gridwatch - facinating to watch where it all comes from!
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Post by michael on Nov 29, 2022 15:37:54 GMT
Is that chart from Gridwatch - facinating to watch where it all comes from! You say fascinating I say terrifying!
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Post by Martin on Nov 29, 2022 17:20:02 GMT
Not everyone is that bothered about electricity prices....this house is about a mile from mine (thankfully) and I'm sure he's got more up than he did last year. Classy!
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Post by Alex on Nov 29, 2022 18:11:46 GMT
You’re paying inflated gas prices because it has become the fuel that takes up the slack when the wind doesn’t blow and/or the sun doesn’t shine. On top of this carbon taxes pay for the windmills even when the wind doesn’t blow. Good investment for those who can afford to invest but paid for disproportionately by those less fortunate. I drove from Sussex to Hertfordshire then on 5o Warrington and every wind turbine I passed was sitting perfectly still. But then that's why perhaps it's not so silly to be banning onshore in favour of investment in offshore wind which generates a much more consistent level of power.
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