|
Post by Tim on Oct 27, 2021 12:24:59 GMT
I think most of the pure EVs I see out and about are bought/leased by private buyers. Unless there are a huge number of 70+ guys and gals still working and taking VW ID3 and 4s as company motors. They all seem to be getting them in battleship grey as well.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 29, 2021 19:55:05 GMT
I read in The Lawyer (leading news website for the legal profession) that one of our competitors is introducing a new electric car scheme as part of their employee benefits package whereby their employees can lease an electric car on a salary-sacrifice basis.
Sounds like a very intriguing idea.
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Oct 29, 2021 20:34:39 GMT
I saw their fleet car park.....
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Oct 29, 2021 20:38:47 GMT
That’s an old photo. I can see RT running around London in this……
|
|
|
Post by chipbutty on Oct 30, 2021 8:28:35 GMT
Wow
How soon we will all be electric ? Quite soon if the Chinese keep delivering cars like this.
Look at that interior and the digital display. 48 kWh base with 171 brake and 206 mile range.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 30, 2021 16:40:32 GMT
Looks like a little Porsche.
|
|
|
Post by PG on Nov 1, 2021 18:09:55 GMT
Wow How soon we will all be electric ? Quite soon if the Chinese keep delivering cars like this. Look at that interior and the digital display. 48 kWh base with 171 brake and 206 mile range. That does look several leagues above any other Chinese EV stuff. And it looks way, way better tan some of the ugly stuff coming out of Germany. Like a cross between a shrunk Macan and a Mini. Ora are part of Great Wall and it is they who have done a JV with BMW to build the next Mini EV in China at a new factory. As the new factory is to open in 2022, I expect that Ora have had access to BMW's technology and quality standards. www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/new-electric-mini-models-be-built-china
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Nov 1, 2021 18:15:10 GMT
Looks great, and yes: very BMW Group.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Nov 1, 2021 19:04:27 GMT
Absolutely not.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Nov 1, 2021 20:09:45 GMT
Right now, a full tank will do me 500 miles. I want equal or better from a new car. I can and have done 500+ miles in a day, with only brief piss or pie stops (never long enough to charge anything up). Sadly, the closest I reckon I will get to an electric estate car is one of the myriad of tall hatchback/pretend offroader things that will become even more prevalent with EVs and their skateboard floorpans. By the time that happens I'll just buy a van and run a small hatch for daily stuff. Out of interest Blarno, does your mobile phone last a full week between charges? Mine doesn't and that's OK because I can charge at home. I think we need to start thinking the same way about cars. You want 500 mile range but you don't really need it. Even heavy users such as company car drivers don't because most company driving policies require you to take a break after 2 hours. At present speed limits you cannt drive more than 140 miles in that time. A lot of modern EVs can add 30-40% charge in the 20mins it takes to stop at the services, have a piss, tackle some emails and make a few calls. Do that twice on a journey from London to Newcastle and you're not adding on much time, if any, to your journey. The problem at present is that this relies on being able to enter a services and find a charger that is working and isn't being used by someone else. Hopefully that is a problem that will improve over the coming years. This video shows an interesting idea to solve the problem of diesel trucks
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Nov 1, 2021 20:41:14 GMT
One of my team runs his own car, an iPace SE. He was supposed to meet me at a Hotel just outside Edinburgh at 6pm and it’s a c4 hour journey from Warrington so he left at 1pm, with a full battery and time to charge at its only 250 miles. He arrived just after 9pm, having tried 6 chargers and ending up at a Lidl which wasn’t a particularly quick charger but at least it was working and he arrived with 45 miles range.
I know he was particularly unlucky and it didn’t sound like he planned stops before he left, but 8 hours to do 250 miles…..
I live another 100 miles further away but it took me just under 5 hours door to door and I had time to work at the airport and a bit on the plane, so lost under 3 hours in total.
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on Nov 1, 2021 21:38:49 GMT
Yep. There is a serious problem with the infrastructure at the moment even if you ignore the range and large upfront cost and it isn't comparible with mobile phones in any way whatsoever, with the greatest of respect - I can still charge my phone and use it at the same time either plugged into the wall or a portable power bank.
As I have mentioned previously, en electric car would suit Lindsey, but she wants to keep her MX-5 and there is the problem of not being able to afford one.
You're the H&S guy, but lorry drivers are allowed 2 shifts of 4 hours with 45 minutes in between. If I was travelling from London to Newcastle, I would use the train.
That was impossible for my trip to Devon recently (about 350 miles). We stopped once on the way back and that was only because I needed diesel because I didn't fill up before I left. It took 5 minutes. I suspect that I would need to stop twice in an electric car and that adds 1.5 hours to the journey assuming getting straight on a charger and it working. Traffic can destroy the range, especially on a hot day if you need to use the AC.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Nov 1, 2021 22:56:27 GMT
I used mobile phones as an analogy more for the point about wanting an electric car to have 500 mile range because that's the range a tank of diesel gives. If you fill up once a week, as a lot of people do, you don't use that 500 mile range in day, you in fact probably use less than 100 - most people use less than 50 miles a day. So the point I was trying to make is that if the battery of your car only lasts a day or two it's not a problem because you can charge it each night as you would your phone.
The 350mile trip you said you did to Devon with just a 5 minute stop for diesel isn't something I would advise but I'm not going to criticise you for because I've done the same on occasion, especially when you just want to get home. But if you had an electric car with 250 miles range you could get half way, stop for 20mins to add another 100 miles to the battery and get home fine with only an extra 15mins added to your journey which in the grand scheme of things is not the end of the world. But Martin is right to point out that at the moment the charging infrastructure just doesn't support it.
I'm not saying you're wrong to point out that going electric isn't as convenient as being able to refuel with diesel in 5 mins, I'm just saying we need to rethink how we use cars in the future and how we think about managing range and that might mean that at some point in the future we will have to accept some of the inconveniences whether we like it or not.
|
|
|
Post by garry on Nov 2, 2021 9:08:35 GMT
One of my team runs his own car, an iPace SE. He was supposed to meet me at a Hotel just outside Edinburgh at 6pm and it’s a c4 hour journey from Warrington so he left at 1pm, with a full battery and time to charge at its only 250 miles. He arrived just after 9pm, having tried 6 chargers and ending up at a Lidl which wasn’t a particularly quick charger but at least it was working and he arrived with 45 miles range. I know he was particularly unlucky and it didn’t sound like he planned stops before he left, but 8 hours to do 250 miles….. I live another 100 miles further away but it took me just under 5 hours door to door and I had time to work at the airport and a bit on the plane, so lost under 3 hours in total. But surely he would have arrived with circa 45 miles of range if he’d driven directly from Warrington. It’s a 215 mile drive and the ipace surely has a real world range of a little over 250 miles ( Johnc?). Even so, there’s some decent charging stations at Gretna and on the m8 east of Glasgow, so a bit of a plan should have got him there. Saying that, charge station reliability is a serious issue.
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Nov 2, 2021 9:31:56 GMT
All this is why I chose a hybrid this time around. Whilst I barely use Eva, to the extent I’ve yet to put petroleum distillates in it, the driving I have done is very local so over 50% of my mileage is battery-only. The only journey of any distance was from the dealership home.
I can tell the car to save battery for built up areas, the in-car charger via the engine is the quickest charger available and it recovers enough energy to still manage 20-25% of journey distance on batteries when the gauge says 0miles available in hybrid mode. I feel like I’m getting the small journey benefits of an electric car without the panic / time loss / inconvenience / whatever you want to call it for those times I might go further afield than the wild countryside of Epsom Downs. The silence and the effect it has on your driving mentality are clear positives so I can see the overall appeal of electric cars but if the Porsche / Exxon green fuel takes off I’ll be first in line to try it 😊
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Nov 2, 2021 9:38:20 GMT
The Gretna chargers are the ones we stop at or if you get off the motorway a bit Booths supermarkets in Northern England nearly all have some of the fast InstaVolt chargers.
The i-Pace will do 215 miles if you use the Eco function and if you don't try to get along at 80mph. Stick to an indicated 70mph and it should be straightforward. If he drives at 80mph the range would be no more than about 175/180 miles. However planning ahead is the most essential part of EV travelling. You need to find the fast chargers at places you think will be quieter and just plan your route around them. We now don't normally go further than about 120/140 miles before we charge again and that cuts out a lot of the issues if chargers are broken or busy.
On our last trip up the M6 we stopped at Gretna and only 3 of the 4 fast chargers were available and the older chargers in the main carpark were broken. We had to wait over an hour in an ever growing queue to get a charger, which we were then on for about 40 minutes to give us enough range to use a heavy right foot to get home. However when we were waiting we were parallel with the petrol pumps (10 of them) and I did a bit of counting and timing - over 10 minutes 23 cars arrived and left that petrol station whereas not one left the EV chargers and the shortest visit by any EV was about 30 minutes. To have effective EV charging is going to require charging stations the size of football fields with probably 100 chargers available.
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on Nov 2, 2021 10:16:14 GMT
I wonder what the carbon footprint of buildibg charging stations that size is all over the country compared to ICE or hybrid vehicles.
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Nov 2, 2021 10:35:01 GMT
One of my team runs his own car, an iPace SE. He was supposed to meet me at a Hotel just outside Edinburgh at 6pm and it’s a c4 hour journey from Warrington so he left at 1pm, with a full battery and time to charge at its only 250 miles. He arrived just after 9pm, having tried 6 chargers and ending up at a Lidl which wasn’t a particularly quick charger but at least it was working and he arrived with 45 miles range. I know he was particularly unlucky and it didn’t sound like he planned stops before he left, but 8 hours to do 250 miles….. I live another 100 miles further away but it took me just under 5 hours door to door and I had time to work at the airport and a bit on the plane, so lost under 3 hours in total. But surely he would have arrived with circa 45 miles of range if he’d driven directly from Warrington. It’s a 215 mile drive and the ipace surely has a real world range of a little over 250 miles ( Johnc?). Even so, there’s some decent charging stations at Gretna and on the m8 east of Glasgow, so a bit of a plan should have got him there. Saying that, charge station reliability is a serious issue. He said max 200 miles, probably not helped by poor weather (wind and rain) and he didn’t want to run it right down because of the issues he’s had in the past with chargers not working or being in use, so realistic range isn’t much more than 150 miles. To give some balance, most days it suits him perfectly and save money, as he’s got a 65 mile round trip commute
|
|
|
Post by Boxer6 on Nov 2, 2021 10:37:37 GMT
I wonder what the carbon footprint of buildibg charging stations that size is all over the country compared to ICE or hybrid vehicles. Not to mention the flood risk! Can't find it now, typically, but I saw a pic of a flooded charging station the other day where none of the charging points were accessible due to being in 2+ feet of water!
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Nov 2, 2021 10:43:08 GMT
If he uses the Eco mode, it can add up to 10% to the range. Our car, with its normal use will show a range of around 230 miles when fully charged but pressing Eco puts that up to about 250 miles. We have seen as high as 260 miles. It doesn't make it any slower but it makes the throttle pedal a good bit more woolly and reduces the seat temperature a bit and monitors the aircon a bit more closely - it's well worth it on a long journey. If he only gets 150 miles then he is driving with a heavy foot and not embracing the changes needed to make an EV work.
|
|
|
Post by Boxer6 on Nov 2, 2021 10:51:03 GMT
If he uses the Eco mode, it can add up to 10% to the range. Our car, with its normal use will show a range of around 230 miles when fully charged but pressing Eco puts that up to about 250 miles. We have seen as high as 260 miles. It doesn't make it any slower but it makes the throttle pedal a good bit more woolly and reduces the seat temperature a bit and monitors the aircon a bit more closely - it's well worth it on a long journey. If he only gets 150 miles then he is driving with a heavy foot and not embracing the changes needed to make an EV work. I know it's getting a bit chilly in the mornings now, but really?
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Nov 2, 2021 11:13:31 GMT
I used mobile phones as an analogy more for the point about wanting an electric car to have 500 mile range because that's the range a tank of diesel gives. If you fill up once a week, as a lot of people do, you don't use that 500 mile range in day, you in fact probably use less than 100 - most people use less than 50 miles a day. So the point I was trying to make is that if the battery of your car only lasts a day or two it's not a problem because you can charge it each night as you would your phone. The 350mile trip you said you did to Devon with just a 5 minute stop for diesel isn't something I would advise but I'm not going to criticise you for because I've done the same on occasion, especially when you just want to get home. But if you had an electric car with 250 miles range you could get half way, stop for 20mins to add another 100 miles to the battery and get home fine with only an extra 15mins added to your journey which in the grand scheme of things is not the end of the world. But Martin is right to point out that at the moment the charging infrastructure just doesn't support it. I'm not saying you're wrong to point out that going electric isn't as convenient as being able to refuel with diesel in 5 mins, I'm just saying we need to rethink how we use cars in the future and how we think about managing range and that might mean that at some point in the future we will have to accept some of the inconveniences whether we like it or not. It's (a) horses for courses and (b) usability Because much of my mileage in my car is long distance - in five years, my car has crossed the Channel eight times - I do care greatly about range, charging infrastructure and stopping times, before we even get on to purchase price. Yes, I can currently probably address all of that adequately by buying a Tesla, but I just don't want one and besides my wife thinks the Model 3 is ugly (a neighbour has one), which doesn't help. On the other hand, my wife's Fiat rarely goes any further than Heathrow airport, which is all of 17 miles away. So in theory, a range of 100 miles ought to be ample. But, I actually think a genuine and achievable 150 mile range without having to drive like a nun is the acceptable minimum, largely because it's 115 miles from here to my mother's house and a similar distance to my sister's house, and I cannot contemplate owning a car that couldn't at least do either of those journeys without stopping or inducing range anxiety, even if it was just once or twice a year. Plus until you can buy a small electric car that costs like a small ICE car, it's going to remain a hard sell.
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Nov 2, 2021 11:14:26 GMT
If he uses the Eco mode, it can add up to 10% to the range. Our car, with its normal use will show a range of around 230 miles when fully charged but pressing Eco puts that up to about 250 miles. We have seen as high as 260 miles. It doesn't make it any slower but it makes the throttle pedal a good bit more woolly and reduces the seat temperature a bit and monitors the aircon a bit more closely - it's well worth it on a long journey. If he only gets 150 miles then he is driving with a heavy foot and not embracing the changes needed to make an EV work. I think it’s normally about 220miles range, the 150 is where he was comfortable / wanted to top up because of the difficulties he’s had charging. As I said, I don’t think he planned the journey at all. My boss has had his Model 3 performance for just over a year and has done 32k miles, including many trips from Peterborough to Glasgow. I’m not aware of him ever having any charging issues but there are so many on the road now and sat charging at services, I can’t see it being that good for much longer.
|
|
|
Post by Eff One on Nov 2, 2021 19:41:03 GMT
To answer the original question - when I'm forced to, I suspect. I'm not particularly wedded to combustion, but for me EVs are far from being viable for a number of reasons.
1. There's nothing remotely desirable on the market aside from the Lotus Evija.
2. EVs are (aside from the Evija) hugely overweight compared to their combustion equivalents.
3. They're considerably more expensive than their combustion equivalents.
4. Their green credentials range from modestly favourable to highly questionable depending on which carbon footprint model you apply.
I'm optimistic that all of these hurdles will be cleared, but my sub 1300kg all electric hot hatch is some way off yet.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on Nov 2, 2021 19:52:08 GMT
If someone invented a mobile phone that would go 3 weeks without charging and when it did need charging, it could be done in 5 minutes using a readily-available energy source, I'm sure they would be on to a winner.........
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Nov 2, 2021 19:59:47 GMT
I wonder what the carbon footprint of buildibg charging stations that size is all over the country compared to ICE or hybrid vehicles. Not to mention the flood risk! Can't find it now, typically, but I saw a pic of a flooded charging station the other day where none of the charging points were accessible due to being in 2+ feet of water!
|
|
|
Post by garry on Nov 2, 2021 20:00:45 GMT
If someone invented a mobile phone that would go 3 weeks without charging and when it did need charging, it could be done in 5 minutes using a readily-available energy source, I'm sure they would be on to a winner......... Said Nokia….. Just before the arrival of the iPhone.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 2, 2021 20:14:39 GMT
If someone invented a mobile phone that would go 3 weeks without charging and when it did need charging, it could be done in 5 minutes using a readily-available energy source, I'm sure they would be on to a winner......... Said Nokia….. Just before the arrival of the iPhone. I was just going to say that. Nokias could last for days but once the iPhone appeared their race was run.
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Nov 2, 2021 20:44:03 GMT
I worked for Ericsson back then, my step-dad was a major tier one supplier to Nokia and the whole smartphone thing was a mess. Ericsson developed a multifunctional touchscreen phone (R-380s) which used sandwich layers for the touch. Nokia, Ericsson and Psion had interest in a company that developed a platform that they could all use (this is from memory so I can’t recall the name of it or be bothered to look it up) and it meant Psion functionality could go on your Ericsson smartphone. It was all a great ideas but Nokia research still showed their users (who were by now older mobile users with set ways) wanted battery life because they still spent all their lives shouting into a phone like Gordon Gecko. So Nokia spent (i think my step dad said) about 50% of their R&D budget on battery development in the late 90s. Texts were a by-product of a test tool and were free for years until it was noticed younger users were communicating via them without burning air time - then an add in was developed in the switching to record them and make them chargeable.
When Steve Jobs’ development team came along with a glass touchscreen, a Janet and John GUI, messaging that wasn’t text-based appealing to a younger user group that had phones as a lifestyle and leisure statement the traditional mobile phone companies were fucked in about 12-18 months.
|
|
|
Post by Blarno on Nov 3, 2021 13:02:27 GMT
I drove my first Hybrid today, a Kia Niro. Technically not a bad car - very comfy, quiet and well equippped. However, the throttle pedal action appeared to bear no relation to the speed the vehicle moved down the road. It was capable of keeping up with traffic, but I waxpecting a bit more of an eager response when pushed. The electric assistance was random as well - sometimes it would pull away on full electric, sometimes on petrol power, regardless of charge level. I couldn't tell you what engine was in it as it made no discernible noise above a grumble and I was listening to some top quality Thrash Metal for the entire journey. I averaged 48mpg going from Cheshire to Coventry to Liverpool, so that wasn't too bad.
Other points:
The "smart" cruise system was anything but. I leave a good gap between me and the car in front so I can react if anything happens. This system leaves a gaping miasma and if anything or anyone drifts into it, the power drops off and the regen braking slams your chest into the steering wheel without warning. There is no option for regular cruise control.
No actual dials, just a digital display that doesn't like sunlight. Also, the dashboard was very shiny and distracting.
Android Auto. Why does it need my phone's location to be switched on? My location is only ever switched on if I'm using it for sat nav, and seeing as the car had built in satnav, why would I need my location on? Therefore, Android Auto wasn't used.
Seating position was too high, but I suspect that's the whole point, what with it being a tall hatch crossover whatsit thing.
|
|