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Post by Big Blue on Aug 31, 2021 8:05:59 GMT
Highly polluting leaded petrol now eradicated from the world, says UN www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-58388810It took 50 years to eradicate leaded petrol after it hadn’t even been an additive for that long. One thing is certain: all of us on here will have the opportunity to drive a petrol vehicle until death.
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 31, 2021 8:49:11 GMT
Depends how quickly it takes our glorious Leaders to tax us off the roads and then by 2035 perform a complete u-turn and tell us electric isn't actually that green and that we will now be hydrogen only by 2040.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Sept 16, 2021 7:30:30 GMT
I'll remain ICE for as long as possible. I won't rule out one of the cars maybe being electric or hybrid but certainly not both for the foreseeable.
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Post by chipbutty on Sept 16, 2021 13:02:28 GMT
Logically it would depend upon the speed of the infrastructure roll out, availability of “ affordable “ new BEVs and whether the Government will incentivise people to ditch perfectly serviceable combustion vehicles for BEVs and/or disincentivise ICE through punitive legislation, taxation and fuel restriction.
I would like to think that ICE will not be phased out by force or cancelled altogether – but do not underestimate the politics of envy and righteousness. I can easily see any of the current parties gleefully hammering the shit out of ICE vehicle ownership, driven by pictures of skinny looking kids with “ Daily Mail sad face “ standing on cracked earth whilst holding a dead sapling.
My views of what Governments think they can get away with has radically changed over the last 18 months and I am steeling myself for a steady trickle of restrictions and curtailment of freedoms in the name of the greater good and the next convenient emergency. So all those who think personal transportation and associated freedoms are sacrosanct – I would suggest you to think again.
Personally – how much longer I am to continue with ICE will be determined by how I am permitted to use them, because a fast and noisy performance car is only worthwhile if you can make it go fast and make noise. I won’t have any kind of performance noise machine if it’s fitted with a mandatory speed limiter, or if I can only drive it at lower speeds on the motorway (as has been suggested recently).
It’s all quite depressing to be honest.
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Post by Tim on Sept 16, 2021 13:27:15 GMT
Gavin Green's column in the latest issue of CAR is quite interesting on the subject of BEVs. Basically whole of life emissions, including initial build, take about 50k miles to recover on an electric Volvo XC40 (?) compared with its petrol powered brother. And from memory (the mag is in the kitchen and its not coffee time yet so I can't be arsed walking through) that assumes using fully renewable power sources for the electric generation. I can't remember if it includes the different 'cost' of mining raw materials as well but unsurprisingly digging the stuff out of the ground for batteries adds a large negative for the BEV at the point of sale.
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Post by Boxer6 on Sept 16, 2021 13:36:16 GMT
Gavin Green's column in the latest issue of CAR is quite interesting on the subject of BEVs. Basically whole of life emissions, including initial build, take about 50k miles to recover on an electric Volvo XC40 (?) compared with its petrol powered brother. And from memory (the mag is in the kitchen and its not coffee time yet so I can't be arsed walking through) that assumes using fully renewable power sources for the electric generation. I can't remember if it includes the different 'cost' of mining raw materials as well but unsurprisingly digging the stuff out of the ground for batteries adds a large negative for the BEV at the point of sale. Something that has been known about for some time, and totally glossed over by anyone invested in the technology or (alleged) benefits.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 16, 2021 13:55:08 GMT
More importantly; when will friends be electric?
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Post by Tim on Sept 16, 2021 14:55:12 GMT
More importantly; when will friends be electric? Our friends are electric.
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 16, 2021 17:58:04 GMT
You know I hate to ask But, are 'friends' electric? Mine's broke down And now I've no one to love
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Post by Boxer6 on Sept 16, 2021 21:11:53 GMT
You know I hate to ask But, are 'friends' electric? Mine's broke down And now I've no one to love I assume, like me, you knew that lyric without recourse to t'interwebs .. .. ..
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 16, 2021 21:30:01 GMT
But do androids dream of electric sheep?
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Post by Blarno on Sept 17, 2021 7:52:37 GMT
Build me an electric estate car that can do 500 miles on a charge, tow a trailer and be a decent looker and I'm in...
...in 10 years time when it's depreciated enough and I can afford it.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 17, 2021 9:27:55 GMT
When does anyone drive 500 miles without stopping?
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Post by Tim on Sept 17, 2021 9:40:02 GMT
When does anyone drive 500 miles without stopping? That's not what he said
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Post by Blarno on Sept 17, 2021 11:35:10 GMT
Right now, a full tank will do me 500 miles. I want equal or better from a new car. I can and have done 500+ miles in a day, with only brief piss or pie stops (never long enough to charge anything up).
Sadly, the closest I reckon I will get to an electric estate car is one of the myriad of tall hatchback/pretend offroader things that will become even more prevalent with EVs and their skateboard floorpans. By the time that happens I'll just buy a van and run a small hatch for daily stuff.
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Post by chipbutty on Sept 17, 2021 11:36:21 GMT
And the latest round of " environmental " terrorism proves this point - 3 blockages (one of which has caused a significant pile up) and the attending officers brief is to see how they can make the protestors more comfortable.
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Post by johnc on Sept 17, 2021 11:38:06 GMT
A girl who works for us and her husband wanted to buy electric but as keen skiers they have instead chosen a diesel Skoda Superb Estate because the electric cars only have just enough range to get to Aviemore, Glen Shee or Anoch Mhor and back but any hold ups or diversions and they would be stuck with no chargers and no way to get home on a dark and cold winter's night. There are no chargers at the ski car parks so it is a non starter.
Killing of ICE cars too quickly will create massive social issues in the more rural communities and as chip says, would impose severe travel restrictions on the population. Another one of my employees goes hill walking and Munro bagging regularly which means they drive 150+ miles, park up in a deserted lay-by and then drive 150+ miles home - again that is probably more than 95% of electric cars could manage without a charge.
Without major subversion of the population I think any political system which tries to restrict freedom of movement is going to find itself in real trouble.
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Post by Ben on Sept 17, 2021 18:31:05 GMT
I think electric motoring will only become widely accepted once the following are achieved:
1) Charging stations are as commonplace as petrol stations 2) Charging times take similar times as fuelling up
I think the second point might need some time to come to fruition, but apparently the Chinese are already exploring battery swaps that can be done in 5 minutes or so. Just pull your car into a public garage and the system will take care of the rest.
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Post by ChrisM on Sept 17, 2021 19:12:11 GMT
.....but apparently the Chinese are already exploring battery swaps that can be done in 5 minutes or so. Just pull your car into a public garage and the system will take care of the rest. This relies upon battery packs being standard sizes, and the connections between packs and cars/vehicles being common. Someone messed up badly by not setting a standard for these features when EVs were first mooted
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 17, 2021 20:16:49 GMT
.....but apparently the Chinese are already exploring battery swaps that can be done in 5 minutes or so. Just pull your car into a public garage and the system will take care of the rest. This relies upon battery packs being standard sizes, and the connections between packs and cars/vehicles being common. Someone messed up badly by not setting a standard for these features when EVs were first mooted It’ll probably come. In the early days of motoring there was no common position of throttle, brake, clutch pedals, as well as a host of minor controls. Time saw convergence of these functions and their positions.
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Post by Alex on Sept 17, 2021 21:47:54 GMT
I've wondered for some time why manufacturers haven't gone down the route of inventing the equivalent of the AA battery but for cars. You could use the underground space currently being used by petrol and diesel tanks to store a load of charged batteries and just bill motorists for however many kW's of power they want in the new battery. The brands might request a deposit of some sort which means you can only swap over BP batteries if that's who you have an account with. Surely it's not far fetched an idea?
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Post by Roadsterstu on Sept 18, 2021 7:56:07 GMT
And the latest round of " environmental " terrorism proves this point - 3 blockages (one of which has caused a significant pile up) and the attending officers brief is to see how they can make the protestors more comfortable. A new level of embarrassment, that is.
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Post by johnc on Sept 20, 2021 8:38:48 GMT
I think the idea of swapping batteries is a non starter (pardon the pun). The batteries can weigh anything up to a tonne and the fitment would need to be very accurate to avoid damage. Given the number of charges a car will need in its life, I just can't see a system that would be robust enough or accurate enough to allow proper fitment every time without breaking something or doing potentially irreparable damage. The whole design of cars would also need to change significantly.
I think by the time they get standardisation sorted out together with a battery changing infrastructure, technology will have moved on by massive leaps and bounds and electric cars will recharge in 5 minutes or hydrogen or some other alternative will have taken over. To be workable for joe public, the solutions have to be simple!
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Post by chipbutty on Sept 20, 2021 8:50:27 GMT
The bit that no one considers with battery swapping is who owns the battery ?
How would you feel if you rock up in your brand new EV with it's new (but empty) pack and it gets replaced with one that is a couple of years old with 200 fast charge cycles under it's belt that has lost 20% of it's capacity vs new.
Screw that.
Also - taking Jon's logistical point slightly further, how many packs do you need to have ready to go (demand plus buffer to allow recharging of the flat ones) and how much physical space is needed ?
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Post by chipbutty on Sept 20, 2021 8:54:13 GMT
If we want pie in the sky solutions - how about inductive charging on major routes and motorways ?
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Post by Blarno on Sept 20, 2021 8:56:47 GMT
Full size Scalextric.
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Post by Tim on Sept 20, 2021 9:13:49 GMT
We already have that. It's called a railway.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 20, 2021 9:35:11 GMT
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Post by Ben on Sept 20, 2021 14:20:24 GMT
I think the idea of swapping batteries is a non starter (pardon the pun). The batteries can weigh anything up to a tonne and the fitment would need to be very accurate to avoid damage. Given the number of charges a car will need in its life, I just can't see a system that would be robust enough or accurate enough to allow proper fitment every time without breaking something or doing potentially irreparable damage. The whole design of cars would also need to change significantly. Seems like it's already been done. cleantechnica.com/2020/05/31/nio-completes-more-than-500000-battery-swaps/autonews.gasgoo.com/china_news/70018107.html
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 20, 2021 15:08:26 GMT
I think the idea of swapping batteries is a non starter (pardon the pun). The batteries can weigh anything up to a tonne and the fitment would need to be very accurate to avoid damage. Given the number of charges a car will need in its life, I just can't see a system that would be robust enough or accurate enough to allow proper fitment every time without breaking something or doing potentially irreparable damage. The whole design of cars would also need to change significantly. Seems like it's already been done. cleantechnica.com/2020/05/31/nio-completes-more-than-500000-battery-swaps/autonews.gasgoo.com/china_news/70018107.htmlInteresting. The swapping out of battery packs is fairly simple and can be done automatically, without fuss. I'm assuming the Chinese one is the same vehicle with a standard pack but it would be easy for the robot completing the swop to read what vehicle it was working on and be able to accurately locate, remove and replace a pack on a whole range of models, assuming a standard sized battery pack - probably in the area under the rear seats where we now have the fuel tank on most cars.
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