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Post by bryan on Jul 14, 2021 20:55:51 GMT
We had an update on our company car scheme. From April 2023 only hybrids and electric cars and from April 2025 only electric cars.
With senior mgrs leading the way from Sept 21 only able to order electric cars.
All of which is fine (depressing but understandable) what is not fine is they slipped in that any business miles from September 21 will only be reimbursed at the EV only rate of 4ppm regardless of fuel type or private car we have etc, I get 12ppm for the Evoque, which just about covers the fuel cost.
Tight bastards are expecting us to subsidise business travel....won't affect me as much as some of the ops mgrs who travel between sites daily.
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 14, 2021 21:01:45 GMT
I wouldn't have thought that they could do that.
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 14, 2021 21:04:33 GMT
If they have electric cars and can plug in and top up at company sites (including at their normal place of work, if they have one), is there any need to pay them any mileage allowance??
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Post by Martin on Jul 14, 2021 21:07:19 GMT
Most of our managers senior enough to have the Model 3 on their list are ordering them now, I went to head office last week and there were loads of them, mostly white of course.
How can they expect you to subsidise business mileage so heavily and how did they justify that without letting people get out of their leases and into an EV?
I only get 13p for both cars, so subsidise business mileage, only getting back about 65% of what it costs in mine and 70% in the Golf, but that’s my choice and I do get some of it back through my tax code. I bet you’ll end up with keeping a lot of online meetings as people won’t want to travel!
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Post by bryan on Jul 14, 2021 21:13:29 GMT
They have said I can hand back my car without paying any early termination charges but a £250 admin fee...and order an EV. That really doesn't make environmental sense to me!!
There was no justification they just slipped it into the here's our net zero journey blurb.
And on questioning they have not plans to put charging points in our sites for employee use either!
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Post by bryan on Jul 14, 2021 21:14:49 GMT
A lot of people are saying they will get taxi, train hotel etc rather than use their own cars
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Post by Martin on Jul 14, 2021 21:19:01 GMT
They have said I can hand back my car without paying any early termination charges but a £250 admin fee...and order an EV. That really doesn't make environmental sense to me!! There was no justification they just slipped it into the here's our net zero journey blurb. And on questioning they have not plans to put charging points in our sites for employee use either! No, it doesn’t make any sense at all and surely must cost them a fortune? What are you going to do, stick or twist? Why don’t you take an allowance and use something for your huge fleet? |
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Post by bryan on Jul 14, 2021 21:22:30 GMT
Stick and hope someone sees some sense! I can't be dealing with range anxiety! But do like the electric bit of the Evoque a lot.
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Post by michael on Jul 14, 2021 21:41:03 GMT
Net zero obsession is going to kill western economies.
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 14, 2021 22:00:28 GMT
Yikes. We still get 45p/mile for any petrol car over something like 1.8. But equally we don't have company cars so all mileage is in privately owned vehicles. Personally I almost never need to use my car for business travel, but I imagine many of my colleagues in our various regional offices have more regular occasion to do so.
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Post by Alex on Jul 14, 2021 22:11:07 GMT
We've recently had our co car policy reviewed and they've decided not to go full EV for now simply because a lot of business trips (eg. Horsham to Manchester or Leeds) cannot be done on the range of most EVs currently on the market. We've got two domestic style wall plugs at the office but cannot add any extra because the power supply to our building doesn't have the capacity (bear in mind we are also running a water testing laboratory on site). Thus we cant charge a fleet at the office. The policy does allow PHEV but for my grade the budget for new cars is £30,500. Given that most PHEVs start at between 31k and 35k depending on brand/model that means my next car will likely have to be regular hybrid.
Only trouble is there aren't many out there. The Ioniq is no longer in production and I believe the Nero is going out too. Most other brands are PHEV or EV with the exception of Toyota. Bit annoying as senior managers get more budget so can have a PHEV and enjoy the lower tax rates they benefit from but those of us in a lower position have to pay more tax.
I'm not due a new car until mid 2022 so the budget might have crept up by then and more cars might have entered the market. I'll worry about it then.
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Post by Martin on Jul 15, 2021 5:22:21 GMT
Yikes. We still get 45p/mile for any petrol car over something like 1.8. But equally we don't have company cars so all mileage is in privately owned vehicles. Personally I almost never need to use my car for business travel, but I imagine many of my colleagues in our various regional offices have more regular occasion to do so. 45p a mile is the HMRC approved rate for any private car irrespective of engine size. It’s 13p for me (the 1.4-2.0 petrol and over 2.0 diesel bands, it would be 19p for over 2.0 petrol) because I get a car allowance, so the company car advisory rate is used. It’s the same for Lindsay as she gets an allowance as well but she does very little business mileage. I can claim the difference between 45p and 13p, or whatever I get as the rate does regularly move, on my tax return which is worth around £100 a month but would be a lot more if I paid a lower rate of tax. |
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Post by garry on Jul 15, 2021 7:22:25 GMT
The 4ppm EV rate is ludicrous. Electricity isn’t free!
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Post by Martin on Jul 15, 2021 8:35:56 GMT
The 4ppm EV rate is ludicrous. Electricity isn’t free! 4ppm covers the cost if you charge at home. |
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Post by Tim on Jul 15, 2021 8:39:58 GMT
I get 45 ppm as well.
For the electric users is there some sort of company scheme that covers topping up mid journey at a public charger or does the employee have to pay that (presumably at significantly higher rate than home charging) and hope the 4p covers a decent % of it?
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Post by garry on Jul 15, 2021 8:49:59 GMT
The 4ppm EV rate is ludicrous. Electricity isn’t free! 4ppm covers the cost if you charge at home. I thought the ppm covered running costs (sort of amortised cost per mile I guess). Even ignoring other costs the sums are hard to make work. Electricity is somewhere around 15p per kWh I think. I get 2 miles per kWh (don’t laugh!). I think something like a Zoe gets 3 miles per kWh |
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Post by Martin on Jul 15, 2021 9:49:00 GMT
4ppm covers the cost if you charge at home. I thought the ppm covered running costs (sort of amortised cost per mile I guess). Even ignoring other costs the sums are hard to make work. Electricity is somewhere around 15p per kWh I think. I get 2 miles per kWh (don’t laugh!). I think something like a Zoe gets 3 miles per kWh Not if you get a company car or allowance. But it should be more if you’re running your own EV without getting an allowance. The Model 3’s (mix of long range and performance) get over 3 miles per KWH. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 15, 2021 9:49:50 GMT
I get 45 ppm as well. For the electric users is there some sort of company scheme that covers topping up mid journey at a public charger or does the employee have to pay that (presumably at significantly higher rate than home charging) and hope the 4p covers a decent % of it? Hope the 4p covers it, which it seems to for most people I work with. |
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 15, 2021 10:31:32 GMT
Surely you park in a charging space and if you’re on business you expense parking, which just happens to include charging.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 15, 2021 13:28:36 GMT
I thought you were in a heavily unionised industry, Have you not being paying your dues Brian?
You do have to ask who comes up with this tripe. The condition of the various RM vans delivering the post in our area is something else. Lately its a 05 plate Vauxhall Combo van with paint so faded it was pink and dents in every panel. What does moving a few managers of a certain grade or above do to your carbon footprint as a business.
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Post by michael on Jul 15, 2021 13:46:41 GMT
The condition of the various RM vans delivering the post in our area is something else. Lately its a 05 plate Vauxhall Combo van You still get your post delivered? We do occasionally but it's strange that when we don't get post it's usually the case that our neighbours don't get post either. |
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 15, 2021 13:50:56 GMT
Unless our regular postie (great bloke) is on, we only get post occasionally. Nobody regularly covers his days off or the majority of his holidays. It is a disgrace to be honest.
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Post by johnc on Jul 15, 2021 14:32:00 GMT
Part of the problem is no doubt the fact that plc's need to report on their carbon footprint in the annual accounts and companies are going to be judged on this. I was out this morning with a couple of advisers from a large private bank/investment company and they are actively moving towards all EV company cars but they are sensible enough to accept that a few people may still need a hybrid when they cover large, lightly populated areas. They are also trying to get people out of contracts for non EV
The 4p a mile is a joke. HMRC have not yet published an advisory fuel rate for EV's but the current petrol rate is 13p/mile for a petrol 1400 - 2000cc so you could claim tax relief on the difference between the two.
It costs us c£9 to charge the i-Pace up at home but on the motorway it costs c£36 to charge it up so 4p/mile is nowhere near enough.
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Post by Martin on Jul 15, 2021 14:35:16 GMT
Part of the problem is no doubt the fact that plc's need to report on their carbon footprint in the annual accounts and companies are going to be judged on this. I was out this morning with a couple of advisers from a large private bank/investment company and they are actively moving towards all EV company cars but they are sensible enough to accept that a few people may still need a hybrid when they cover large, lightly populated areas. They are also trying to get people out of contracts for non EV The 4p a mile is a joke. HMRC have not yet published an advisory fuel rate for EV's but the current petrol rate is 13p/mile for a petrol 1400 - 2000cc so you could claim tax relief on the difference between the two. It costs us c£9 to charge the i-Pace up at home but on the motorway it costs c£36 to charge it up so 4p/mile is nowhere near enough. I was told there was an advisory rate, quick Google found this which suggests there is: Fleet trade and training body the Association of Fleet Professionals (AFP) and the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association (BVRLA) say that the HMRC-approved 4 pence per mile (ppl) rate, used to reimburse EV company car drivers, is not fit-for-purpose. |
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Post by johnc on Jul 15, 2021 14:39:03 GMT
That rate hasn't made it in to any official guidance yet so there might be some movement to come. When it costs 4 times as much to charge when on the move than it does from home, one rate doesn't really cut it.
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Post by michael on Jul 15, 2021 14:45:56 GMT
It's possible I may have to educate myself on the filthy world of company car financing. I suppose the simple question is it still possible to get anything remotely interesting?
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Post by Tim on Jul 15, 2021 14:51:46 GMT
Define interesting?
You'll get hammered for something like an A6 with a 2 litre diesel, petrol ones aren't much better.
Much better to follow Martin's lead if you can.
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Post by clunes on Jul 15, 2021 15:07:36 GMT
Our company car policy changed fairly recently to include pure EV's and the monthly lease allowance for a pure EV is noticeably higher than for petrol & diesel.
I don't know whether this is reflected in the general leasing market so they had to bump up the allowance accordingly and I've always taken the monthly cash alternative so am not well placed to comment but for quite a few folk the idea of being able to jump into a new e.g. Tesla Model 3 whilst paying the low rates certainly seems to appeal given the number of colleagues I personally know have taken that route.
To be fair, the office (not yet fully re-opened) has a fair number of charging points (at a guess about 20) for which there is no charge (yet!) but may soon become problematic if we return to anything like 'normal' and the EV's become popular.
(For comparison, at my grade point the figures are (without VAT and on a 32,000Kms/year): Petrol/Diesel - £520, Pure EV - £640, 'Cash' - £600 (pre-tax))
They go up from there to VP level which is £930 for a full EV
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Post by johnc on Jul 15, 2021 15:35:46 GMT
An EV is a no brainer as a company car. For the current tax year it will cost you the tax on 1% of the list price as a benefit in kind. Next year it is 2% and probably 3% the year after.
As a 40% taxpayer, a Tesla 3 with a list price of £60,000 would cost you £240 for the full year 2021/22 and £480 for 2022/23. You would pay more for a bike!
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 15, 2021 15:37:57 GMT
An EV is a no brainer as a company car. For the current tax year it will cost you the tax on 1% of the list price as a benefit in kind. Next year it is 2% and probably 3% the year after. As a 40% taxpayer, a Tesla 3 with a list price of £60,000 would cost you £240 for the full year 2021/22 and £480 for 2022/23. You would pay more for a bike! My A4 2.0 TDI was costing me around £350 per month! |
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