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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 22, 2017 11:36:05 GMT
I honk I could learn to live with the stretched rear end, but not the number plate, that would really irritate me. Should they come with a sticker on the back that says "Honk if the number plate irritates you"?  |
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 22, 2017 11:37:31 GMT
It's negative camber I can see, not toe-in - I think they sit when you leave them in access mode. Bit of an optical illusion caused by the curve of the bodywork. |
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Post by alf on Jun 22, 2017 16:52:01 GMT
First time I have seen the new XF estate - it looks really nice, particularly since - as per my review last week - the saloon looks awkward at the rear compared to the XE as the design does not suit the longer overhang. This version looks great.
The last XF estate was a little big and heavy looking to my eyes, also unlike the 3/5 series most of the reviews seemed to suggest it did not drive quite like the saloon, which is a bit of a red flag for me.
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Post by Martin on Jun 22, 2017 17:12:20 GMT
I honk I could learn to live with the stretched rear end, but not the number plate, that would really irritate me. Should they come with a sticker on the back that says "Honk if the number plate irritates you"? That would be annoying....add it to how annoying the number plate is and I'm definitely out! |
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Post by Blarno on Jun 22, 2017 17:58:23 GMT
I still can't get over how tall and thin the new Disco is. From behind, it looks like it would be blown over in a sharp breeze. Reminds me of a double decker bus.
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Post by michael on Jun 22, 2017 22:16:00 GMT
Reminds me of an executive coach . Fixed your post to be more on message. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 26, 2017 12:31:47 GMT
Why go to the trouble of engineering a variant which will sell in minimum numbers ?. In theory, it should not be a huge expense to do a V6 petrol sportbrake as the power train is engineered for the saloon - but there is still an engineering programme cost to deliver one, which is wasteful if demand is pitiful or the engines can be used in other products (that V6 petrol goes in vast numbers of LR and RR products for international consumption). In Europe and the UK, diesel backlash will affect older and smaller diesels first and foremost. Unless fuel costs and taxation policy changes significantly enough to affect EU6 standard vehicles, big 6 cylinder diesels will continue to be the default choice for large premium vehicles with pep because the fuel economy and performance balance is simply unbeatable. There is always an argument for massive, shouty and ludicrously overpowered petrols, but the 330 - 380 bhp petrol sixes are a bit limp compared to the 300 bhp plus diesels. All IMO of course Disco 3 was available in the UK with a 4.4 v8, but I don't ever recall the 4 being offered with the 5.0 v8 or the 3.0 v6 s/c in the UK. Maybe as an SVO special build or an grey import. As a Londoner, nothing would possess me to purchase a new diesel-engine vehicle of any description. Not worth the potential hit. So that renders this Jaguar a complete irrelevance as far as I am concerned.
In any event, I'd query how many buyers do the requisite mileage required to make the diesel version cheaper to run.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 23, 2017 12:25:08 GMT
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Post by johnc on Oct 24, 2017 12:42:16 GMT
The Government have backtracked a bit on their assault on diesel and they now seem to be concerned mostly with cars up to Euro 4. This will no doubt move on and in 10 years time Euro 6 will be under attack but I am sure that will apply just as much to petrols as diesels by that time.
In my 25,000 miles at an average of 38mpg I have consumed approx. 657 gallons. In a similar performance petrol I doubt my average mpg would be much better than low to mid 20's which in monetary terms is between £2,000 and £2,500 over 3 years. My car cost a bit more than the petrol to buy but I reckon most of that was in the 4wd system so I don't really buy the much higher initial or servicing costs.
My next car will almost certainly be petrol or hybrid but that is purely because of the anti-diesel sentiment and not because I don't like the method of propulsion: the engine is smooth, very strong and sounds good when extended.
Politicians and vested interests are more of a problem than the modern Euro 6 diesels. |
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Post by Tim on Oct 24, 2017 13:12:09 GMT
I was listening to the London Mayor on R4 yesterday and I understand his approach with the new congestion charge but it's arbitrarily based on the Euro emissions standards and, as far as I can tell, limited to cars. Even though the emissions figures are clearly a fairytale.
So presumably the stinking London taxis are still allowed to sit in taxi ranks with their engines running and people who have a wood burner are ok so long as they burn the 'right fuel', whatever that may be.
I look forward to seeing wads of new wood burning stove inspectors being employed across the capital to enforce the, presumably pending, legislation to make sure they don't burn polluting fuel?
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Post by Martin on Oct 24, 2017 13:18:24 GMT
I was talking to a colleague this morning who swapped his M4 for a Macan GTS a couple of months ago. He used to get 24-25mpg which he was OK with, but has only broken 20mpg on one journey in the Macan, his average so far is 18.5mpg (which he’s not so OK with...). I agree with John’s view on this particular diesel engine and the decent (550-650 mile) range is a big plus as well, so I have no massive desire to go to petrol, even ignoring the cost difference.
At 25,000 miles over 3 years it’s a fair bit extra, but I’ve done 30,000 miles in the last 12 months. To put it into perspective, at 25mpg my fuel bill would go up by £2,700 a year / £230 a month and at 20mpg that rises to £4,450 / £370 a month extra.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 24, 2017 14:33:19 GMT
In my 25,000 miles at an average of 38mpg I have consumed approx. 657 gallons. In a similar performance petrol I doubt my average mpg would be much better than low to mid 20's which in monetary terms is between £2,000 and £2,500 over 3 years. My car cost a bit more than the petrol to buy but I reckon most of that was in the 4wd system so I don't really buy the much higher initial or servicing costs.
I think you are underestimating the fuel efficiency of the latest petrols. My long-term average in the 440i to date (10 months and 7k miles) is almost exactly 30mpg and bear in mind that (a) that's from new, (b) the car is based in central London and does its fair share of mooching about town at weekends and (c) I am not one to spare the horses and tend to drive with little regard for fuel consumption.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 24, 2017 14:36:41 GMT
I was listening to the London Mayor on R4 yesterday and I understand his approach with the new congestion charge but it's arbitrarily based on the Euro emissions standards and, as far as I can tell, limited to cars. Even though the emissions figures are clearly a fairytale. So presumably the stinking London taxis are still allowed to sit in taxi ranks with their engines running and people who have a wood burner are ok so long as they burn the 'right fuel', whatever that may be. I look forward to seeing wads of new wood burning stove inspectors being employed across the capital to enforce the, presumably pending, legislation to make sure they don't burn polluting fuel? The T-Charge technically applies to all vehicles other than motorbikes.
However, yes, taxis and private hire vehicles are exempt from the T-charge sadly, as are classic cars (those over 40yrs old that qualify for the historic tax class).
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Post by Martin on Oct 24, 2017 14:40:12 GMT
Isn’t John looking at the next level up performance wise eg M3/C63? I think mid 20s is in one of those is about right, especially when he’s only getting 38mpg from the 435d.
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Post by johnc on Oct 24, 2017 15:27:07 GMT
I think you are underestimating the fuel efficiency of the latest petrols. My long-term average in the 440i to date (10 months and 7k miles) is almost exactly 30mpg and bear in mind that (a) that's from new, (b) the car is based in central London and does its fair share of mooching about town at weekends and (c) I am not one to spare the horses and tend to drive with little regard for fuel consumption.
30mpg is very good. I was basing things on my wife's A5 2.0 TFSi which only gets 22mpg average. She probably has a fairly similar driving combination to me with a daily commute and then longer A and M road drives with some weekend city driving. |
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 24, 2017 18:16:46 GMT
That's a heavy car with a smallish engine, plus I rather think Audi's recent petrol consumption figures haven't been all that special.
I remember my father being distinctly unimpressed with the fuel economy of the supercharged V6 in his S5 Sportback. He said that if you put your foot down, it was almost as juicy as his old V8 RS4 had been, but without being anywhere near as much fun or sounding anywhere near as good.
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Post by Tim on Oct 25, 2017 9:03:41 GMT
I think you are underestimating the fuel efficiency of the latest petrols. My long-term average in the 440i to date (10 months and 7k miles) is almost exactly 30mpg and bear in mind that (a) that's from new, (b) the car is based in central London and does its fair share of mooching about town at weekends and (c) I am not one to spare the horses and tend to drive with little regard for fuel consumption.
30mpg is very good. I was basing things on my wife's A5 2.0 TFSi which only gets 22mpg average. She probably has a fairly similar driving combination to me with a daily commute and then longer A and M road drives with some weekend city driving. 22 from a 2 litre petrol (turbo won't really matter in town) is atrocious unless she spends all of her time in city traffic. We get 26/27 from the Nissan with a mix of A and B road, sitting in traffic through Dundee (Mrs Tim drops me off and then takes 15-20 minutes to get through town to her work) plus whenever I'm out in the car on my own it gets 'exercised'. |
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Post by johnc on Oct 25, 2017 9:09:59 GMT
It struggles to get more than 32/33mpg on the motorway at a steady 70mph and the best ever was 36mpg on the way through to St Andrews on A roads. It's probably another bit of VW/Audi figure fiddling because a check online indicates lots of people with that engine don't do much better mpg wise. Strangely though the Golf GTi seems to have less problems squeezing more miles out of every gallon. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 10:05:29 GMT
I know it's an older variant, but the 2.0t in Mrs 12th's A3 averages about 27. But it's almost all short journeys, so that's probably not representative.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 25, 2017 10:14:40 GMT
I know it's an older variant, but the 2.0t in Mrs 12th's A3 averages about 27. But it's almost all short journeys, so that's probably not representative. I got very nearly that out of the M135i as a long-term average. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 25, 2017 10:15:29 GMT
My mk6 Gti, I drove like I stole it most days and averaged low to mid thirties typically. If I drove slowly on a motorway I'd even see 40's. The Mk5 Gti I never got over 30mpg as it had the older engine in it, EA888 was it, does the A% use that?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 11:13:32 GMT
I think so.
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Post by Boxer6 on Oct 25, 2017 18:06:56 GMT
My mk6 Gti, I drove like I stole it most days and averaged low to mid thirties typically. If I drove slowly on a motorway I'd even see 40's. The Mk5 Gti I never got over 30mpg as it had the older engine in it, EA888 was it, does the A% use that? Over the time I had it, mine averaged out at 25.something. A bit better than the Legacy (2.0T vs 3.0 N/A) but not by as much as I'd thought it would be. |
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Post by PG on Oct 26, 2017 18:51:21 GMT
That's a heavy car with a smallish engine, plus I rather think Audi's recent petrol consumption figures haven't been all that special. I remember my father being distinctly unimpressed with the fuel economy of the supercharged V6 in his S5 Sportback. He said that if you put your foot down, it was almost as juicy as his old V8 RS4 had been, but without being anywhere near as much fun or sounding anywhere near as good. Indeed. His V6 was saving the planet though was just an emissions test fiddle. Big lazy petrol,engines are more economical in the real world than super-duper new turbo ones. And more fun and characterful to boot. |
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Post by chipbutty on Nov 1, 2017 9:22:56 GMT
America gets the Sportbrake in 380ps V6 petrol AWD flavour only.
I wouldn't want the V6 petrol in UK/Europe, it's not powerful or characterful enough to ignore the V6 diesel.
In exactly the same way, there is no way I would take a 540i over a 535d touring
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 1, 2017 11:05:33 GMT
That's odd given how characterful the same engine is supposed to be in an XE-S and an F-Type.
Diesel is now dead in the water in London, where air pollution is the hottest of topics and councils are starting to charge more to park diesels than petrols, and that effect will spread among all but those doing high business mileage or perhaps wanting to do heavy towing.
Pretty much all conversations I've had recently with people looking to change their car has been exclusively for petrol, petrol-hybrid or electric. Having a diesel is becoming socially unacceptable, rightly or wrongly. And the sorts of yummy mummies and affluent daddies that buy big prestige estates and shop in Wholefoods are precisely the sorts most likely to now shun diesel. So I think Jaguar has made an error of marketing judgement.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 1, 2017 11:35:00 GMT
Or is it more likely that no market exists for a 50k-60k Jag estate in the UK as that money is now rolled into SUV's ?
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Post by johnc on Nov 1, 2017 13:16:05 GMT
There must surely be some serious behind closed doors meetings being had between car manufacturers and the Government about this. Jaguar/LR have invested a massive amount into the new diesel engines, as have other manufacturers. The Government make a few poorly considered comments and all of a sudden diesels are dead. The real issue is with older diesels for NOx and older petrols for CO2. One is worse for people and the other is worse for the environment. Pushing people out of diesels into petrol will increase CO2 emissions and reduce NOx emissions but it will also increase the physical consumption of oil.
The Government have tried to backtrack a few times and say Euro 4 diesels and older are the ones they want off the road but the likes of the BBC just state diesels with no differentiation.
Unless there is clear and concise direction from Government, there could be massive financial damage done not only to the motor industry (how many RR's and Discos do you think they would sell if they were all petrols) but also to the economy and to individuals who may have sunk anything from £50K to £80K in to a new diesel car only to find it is basically worthless and unsalable.
As ever, Politicians should think before they open their mouths and changes like the move away from Fossil fuels needs to be planned and smoothed out over many years with no sudden demons being identified erroneously by ill informed comments. The biggest diesel polluters in London are black and taxi shaped but the biggest contributor to NOx emissions is gas fired central heating by some considerable margin. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 13:23:36 GMT
There must surely be some serious behind closed doors meetings being had between car manufacturers and the Government about this. Jaguar/LR have invested a massive amount into the new diesel engines, as have other manufacturers. The Government make a few poorly considered comments and all of a sudden diesels are dead. The real issue is with older diesels for NOx and older petrols for CO2. One is worse for people and the other is worse for the environment. Pushing people out of diesels into petrol will increase CO2 emissions and reduce NOx emissions but it will also increase the physical consumption of oil.
The Government have tried to backtrack a few times and say Euro 4 diesels and older are the ones they want off the road but the likes of the BBC just state diesels with no differentiation.
Unless there is clear and concise direction from Government, there could be massive financial damage done not only to the motor industry (how many RR's and Discos do you think they would sell if they were all petrols) but also to the economy and to individuals who may have sunk anything from £50K to £80K in to a new diesel car only to find it is basically worthless and unsalable.
As ever, Politicians should think before they open their mouths and changes like the move away from Fossil fuels needs to be planned and smoothed out over many years with no sudden demons being identified erroneously by ill informed comments. The biggest diesel polluters in London are black and taxi shaped but the biggest contributor to NOx emissions is gas fired central heating by some considerable margin. Also the habitual leaving on of lights in shops and office buildings even now but expecting joined up thinking from government or management in general seems bound to be an epic fail. |
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Post by Tim on Nov 1, 2017 14:02:45 GMT
I wonder what this sudden announcement by the Government has done to the value of my used diesel car.
I'm guessing that a large chunk of its trade-in value will have been removed at a stroke.
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