RDQ 3/12 - Brexit prep

I think because a lot of people are too lazy to do anything other than take other opinions on board as their own.

I think the difference is that some of us are prepared to look at Brexit from all angles whereas you are so sure you're right that yours must be the only correct opinion. Some people regard the EU as almost some sort of religious faith but not all of us are acolytes. If you read back your posts on the subject it is clear your opinion is very set on stone and anyone who doesn't agree is either 1). Stupid 2). Racist 3). A little Englander or 4). all of those. Don't take this personally though, I'd hate to fall out about it. 

I don't think Bojo comes close but as for the other one, I fixed your post to read "These negotiations are too important to be in the hands of arseholes".

I think it's quite clear that no deal is going to be how things end up but both sides know they have to do something to stop the rather conspicuous traffic jams either side of the Dover-Calais crossing getting out of hand. Lorry drivers queuing on the French side are constantly running the gauntlet of immigrants attacking their trucks and trying to get on board. It's a situation that will only get worse if a no deal brexit causes more hold ups.

On our side we're having to rejig the layout of the M2 and M20 to create lorry parks for those queuing to get over to the continent, something the leave campaign promised would never happen.

Both sides need to do something to save face but sadly I don't think either our government or the EU are able to get their heads partly extracted from their nether regions in order to come to some sort of compromise. Put simply the EU EU don't do compromise, it's their way or the highway and our government still thinks that Britania rules the waves and should be given the Royal treatment.

The list from all countries is endless isn't it. The trouble is that anyone half competent would either never want the job or want to change things to be more pragmatic and that would never do.   

^
The alternatives would have been a lot more palatable, I am sure, if (1) The UK had got on with negotiations instead of doing almost nothing for 3 years or more, and (2) The UK and the EU were capable of carrying out sensible discussions and reaching a sensible outcome, without personal feelings/aims or politics coming into it

Brexit is fundamentally about putting the breaks on eu expansion policies which threaten our security and reducing the amount of crapola that the eu seems to breed faster than bunnies.

It has been made into a whipping post for the opportunities of quite a lot of people who basically want to make a career out of, that and moolah of course. Politics is basically a corrupt practice and the eu has been taken over by those who want to give a masterclass in it, without being caught of course.

So, self interest, moolah and a healthy dose of "Look what happens if you piss us off and try to leave". A lot of children with their hands in the sweetie jar, they will have to let go of most of it to get their hands out again but it will no doubt be used for leveraging influence and further financial rewards.

In the way that not all Brexiters are as described by Bob, I am as described by Racing. I am very much a Europhile but not pro-EU from a political standpoint. That said much of the political ills of the EU as far as many Brexiteers are keen to cry foul on are the fault of various Westminster governments over time. The UK has retained sovereignty - laws were passed in Parliament as defined by the directives of the EU parliament which were agreed unanimously by all EU members. The fact that the interpretation of the directives by the UK was invariably a verbatim statement of the Directive contents and the lack of control of EU inter-state movers being a particularly UK issue compared to most other EU states led to an easy sell that the EU is the cause of all our ills.

How come it's been really easy for a almost whole industries to be overrun with EU tradesmen that have moved to the UK when industries in France are so protected that you would struggle to find a Polish tradesman to come and plaster your kitchen for cash? France is an EU country; France can ensure that moving to France to live and work from another EU country has to be done without burden on the French public services and that you go back to your state of origin when a defined period (3 months) has passed and you are about to become a burden on the state if you're not working. It's not just France either: all the other EU nations, with borders you can walk across (unlike the UK with its island status) can manage the same. It's the UK that's the problem where one of the key Brexit tenets (immigration) is concerned because whilst all of Europe have an immigration issue only the UK has an immigration problem where the influx of immigrants has a really easy ride to employment status, to housing status and to just roaming the streets freely status. 

Then there is the other issue alluded to over the weekend: that the EU doesn't want the UK to succeed in leaving because then other important countries will do the same. When I say important I don't mean the likes of Germany and France (financially important) but the likes of Hungary, Czechia, Slovakia, Greece, Italy and Poland: the countries that keep the hordes of migrants at bay - migrants that are largely bent on reaching the UK (because of the lack of control as seen in the last paragraph) but which will have to be dispersed within the EU. Bob's earlier point about the EU's desire to head further east has nothing to do with a territorial land grab: it's to increase the buffer zone between Western Europe, with the comforts and security we associate with everyday western life, and that other lot over there.

Stop mentioning logical points Chris, they don't go down well with some folk.

One of which, The Lisbon Treaty, being the biggest constitutional change this country has experienced in recent memory without the electorate being invited to have their say on it.

Mind you out of 28 member states, I think only one (Ireland) held a referendum on it.

But either way it proves my point. Labour backed the Lisbon Treaty and the Tories did not.

I didn't know that.....! 

I see, vote the 'wrong' way but have a redo and it's fine and dandy. Have they been offered another referendum to 'change their minds again'?

For balance there's also Switzerland who hold a referendum if a petition reaches a certain threshold and they seem to do okay, too.