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Post by michael on Aug 18, 2020 9:35:00 GMT
Do you prefer cars to have a name or number? Of all those I've had most have been numbers with only Discovery and Punto breaking the rule - Uno sitting in between.
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 18, 2020 9:51:56 GMT
Its hard I guess as there are iconic names and numbers from 917 to Cobra. I guess I prefer names as it takes some form of imagination. I hate meaningless names that some marketing department has come up with so not to offend in all the markets like Veloster or Stonic. However numbers are equally guilty of meaningless, step up the Germans with names A4 35TDI or a 330 with a 2.0l.
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Post by michael on Aug 18, 2020 9:56:17 GMT
The problem with a lot of them these days is the name goes on forever. In the good old days of the 325i, adding SE was as far as it went. Now it'd be followed by M Sport Shadowline plug-in-hybrid or something equally as daft.
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 18, 2020 9:57:55 GMT
I've seen this argument before, long before the internet even.
Apparently Americans like names and (non-UK) Europeans like numbers so historically we had Mustangs, Camaros, Caprices, Firebirds, El Dorados in the US and Renault 5, 7, 9, 12, 25, Peugeot 106-104-504-205, BMW 3-5-6-7, Mercedes 220-190-250-600 and Porsche 911-924-928 in continental Europe. Italians and UK are probably more American than European with the Mini, the Minor, Alfetta, Panda, Uno, Ritmo and of course the US-affected Ford and GM names but the old TR sports cars and VW naming (although the early VWs didn't have names but the inroads to the US market made them come up with them) are the inevitable exception to the rule.
If BMW started calling their cars the "Schnellsturm" and the "Hinterland" I'd probably do some kind of double take so I think it depends on predetermined expectations of manufacturers for me.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 18, 2020 10:34:52 GMT
For some reason a car with a name always seems to garner more affection from me. Numbers seem rather cold and impersonal. My favourite name is Cinquecento - even though that's really a number...
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Post by johnc on Aug 18, 2020 11:06:01 GMT
I have to say that I prefer numbers but that is perhaps a preference from the days when the numbers meant something.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 11:46:58 GMT
Interesting fact that I'm sure you all know: Porsche originally wanted to call the 911 the 909, but it turned out that Peugeot had copyrighted every three digit number with a zero in the middle and refused to let them use it.
Is Q3 a name or a number? If the former then all my cars have had names. Most do, though, don't they? I know Alfa did numbers for a bit then stopped.
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Post by michael on Aug 18, 2020 11:48:33 GMT
Just on Porsche, the current 911 is the 992 but is the one after this going to be the 993 again or will it skip to 994?
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Post by Martin on Aug 18, 2020 12:21:13 GMT
I don't have a big preference either way, but lean slightly towards names especially now numbers don't mean very much at all, with a few obvious exceptions like the 911.
On the subject of names, I don't really know what to call mine when asked. A few people have asked what car I've bought and I usually just say I've had to buy a family truck, then if pushed and I say "a Range Rover", the the next question is "which one?" and I'm not sure exactly what to say. Similarly, a few colleagues have spotted it at a distance in the carpark and asked which Range Rover is it....if I say "the big one" the usual answer is "they're all big...is it the Sport?"
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Post by michael on Aug 18, 2020 12:24:59 GMT
I don't have a big preference either way, but lean slightly towards names especially now numbers don't mean very much at all, with a few obvious exceptions like the 911. On the subject of names, I don't really know what to call mine when asked. A few people have asked what car I've bought and I usually just say I've had to buy a family truck, then if pushed and I say "a Range Rover", the the next question is "which one?" and I'm not sure exactly what to say. Similarly, a few colleagues have spotted it at a distance in the carpark and asked which Range Rover is it....if I say "the big one" the usual answer is "they're all big...is it the Sport?" Depends who you talk to doesn't it? I know a few geeks will know it as the FFRR but for some reason an awful lot of people around here refer to them as the Vogue. Friends of ours have a Sport and a 'proper one' in their own words. |
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Post by Martin on Aug 18, 2020 12:37:38 GMT
I don't have a big preference either way, but lean slightly towards names especially now numbers don't mean very much at all, with a few obvious exceptions like the 911. On the subject of names, I don't really know what to call mine when asked. A few people have asked what car I've bought and I usually just say I've had to buy a family truck, then if pushed and I say "a Range Rover", the the next question is "which one?" and I'm not sure exactly what to say. Similarly, a few colleagues have spotted it at a distance in the carpark and asked which Range Rover is it....if I say "the big one" the usual answer is "they're all big...is it the Sport?" Depends who you talk to doesn't it? I know a few geeks will know it as the FFRR but for some reason an awful lot of people around here refer to them as the Vogue. Friends of ours have a Sport and a 'proper one' in their own words. It does I guess, but I don't know many people who would get the FF reference and calling it a proper one isn't an option....even though it's true!  |
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Post by PG on Aug 18, 2020 12:44:20 GMT
On the subject of names, I don't really know what to call mine when asked. A few people have asked what car I've bought and I usually just say I've had to buy a family truck, then if pushed and I say "a Range Rover", the the next question is "which one?" and I'm not sure exactly what to say. Similarly, a few colleagues have spotted it at a distance in the carpark and asked which Range Rover is it....if I say "the big one" the usual answer is "they're all big...is it the Sport?" Surely what you have the is just a Range Rover. Everyone else has a Range Rover Evoque /Sport / Velar. That's how LR describe the on their website. And if people say Range Rover when they mean the others they are as bad as people who used to say they had "a Porsche" when they had a 924 but wanted you to imagine that it was a 911. On the OP, I'm assuming you mean range names as opposed to individual engine specs etc.? I think it just depends on what you've become used to as names or numbers come along as you age. I consider A1, A2, Q3 etc to be names, just as XF, S class and Clio are. BMW seem unique that they have an individual model designation that encompasses the name too (330 etc). Peugeot just have the model name - 208, 2008. |
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Post by Martin on Aug 18, 2020 13:05:06 GMT
On the subject of names, I don't really know what to call mine when asked. A few people have asked what car I've bought and I usually just say I've had to buy a family truck, then if pushed and I say "a Range Rover", the the next question is "which one?" and I'm not sure exactly what to say. Similarly, a few colleagues have spotted it at a distance in the carpark and asked which Range Rover is it....if I say "the big one" the usual answer is "they're all big...is it the Sport?" Surely what you have the is just a Range Rover. Everyone else has a Range Rover Evoque /Sport / Velar. That's how LR describe the on their website. And if people say Range Rover when they mean the others they are as bad as people who used to say they had "a Porsche" when they had a 924 but wanted you to imagine that it was a 911. On the OP, I'm assuming you mean range names as opposed to individual engine specs etc.? I think it just depends on what you've become used to as names or numbers come along as you age. I consider A1, A2, Q3 etc to be names, just as XF, S class and Clio are. BMW seem unique that they have an individual model designation that encompasses the name too (330 etc). Peugeot just have the model name - 208, 2008. That's true, but I always get asked which one when I say that and if I had an Ewok, Velour or Sport, that's what I'd say it was. Not that it really matters or is important! |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 18, 2020 13:11:31 GMT
Surely what you have the is just a Range Rover. Everyone else has a Range Rover Evoque /Sport / Velar. That's how LR describe the on their website. And if people say Range Rover when they mean the others they are as bad as people who used to say they had "a Porsche" when they had a 924 but wanted you to imagine that it was a 911. On the OP, I'm assuming you mean range names as opposed to individual engine specs etc.? I think it just depends on what you've become used to as names or numbers come along as you age. I consider A1, A2, Q3 etc to be names, just as XF, S class and Clio are. BMW seem unique that they have an individual model designation that encompasses the name too (330 etc). Peugeot just have the model name - 208, 2008. That's true, but I always get asked which one when I say that and if I had an Ewok, Velour or Sport, that's what I'd say it was. Not that it really matters or is important! Range Rover Sport = The big one Range Rover = The Big Fuck Off one. Simple. |
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 18, 2020 14:15:03 GMT
^
No, no.... the "big" Range Rover is "Full-Fat", or FFRR.
If you're asked which one you have, just say "The Full Fat one"
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 18, 2020 14:25:21 GMT
^ No, no.... the "big" Range Rover is "Full-Fat", or FFRR. If you're asked which one you have, just say "The Full Fat one" I'd feel uncomfortable going round telling strangers I've got a fat one. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 18, 2020 14:55:27 GMT
Just on Porsche, the current 911 is the 992 but is the one after this going to be the 993 again or will it skip to 994? Porsche is the daftest with numbers Take 911 964 993 996 997 991 992 Why go from 997 to 991? Even the Boxster/Cayman makes no sense, the original was the 986 which went to 987 for the facelift and then 981 for the all new one and now 718? |
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 18, 2020 15:08:30 GMT
Just on Porsche, the current 911 is the 992 but is the one after this going to be the 993 again or will it skip to 994? Porsche is the daftest with numbers ....... Even the Boxster/Cayman makes no sense, the original was the 986 which went to 987 for the facelift and then 981 for the all new one and now 718? I can assure you that there will be a fully detailed internal document outlining the process by which the models are numbered. They're good like the Germans - its what did for many at the Nuremberg Trials. |
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Post by Alex on Aug 18, 2020 16:46:21 GMT
I find it silly how some manufacturers feel they cant reuse a name because of a previous model, hence Peugeot couldn't go from 308 to 309 and had to stick with 308 or BMWs insistance that the 1 series can never be called an M1 because of all the car geeks who remember the original when in fact most buyers of the M140 have probably never seen or heard of the original M1.
I also agree with pointless names that don't reflect the actual car. I thought about this earlier when I saw a Ford Ecosport. If you'd never had the misfortune of actually seeing one the name wouldnt make you think of a cheap Indian small SUV.
I also generally think that Sport is far too overused and more and more these days it's very hard to think of an event or game with which a vehicle with such branding could ever be associated. Maybe a RR Sport could be associated with gurning but that's about it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 18:16:09 GMT
Marketing and spin seem to be the order of the day after all, why tell the truth when you can lie like a lead weight.
How on earth did anyone manage to con the world into thinking an suv was going to be a logical and economically (Let alone ecologically) sound investment? Mainly because an awful lot of people have a hyped sense of their driving talent, witness the number of BMW 1 series owners who thought their cars were front drive because "All hatchbacks are FWD".
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 18, 2020 18:54:39 GMT
Marketing and spin seem to be the order of the day after all, why tell the truth when you can lie like a lead weight. How on earth did anyone manage to con the world into thinking an suv was going to be a logical and economically (Let alone ecologically) sound investment? Mainly because an awful lot of people have a hyped sense of their driving talent, witness the number of BMW 1 series owners who thought their cars were front drive because "All hatchbacks are FWD". People like them? |
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 18, 2020 19:32:49 GMT
It was said in years gone by that a car called the Austin Pomegranate would never sell;a name is important to get right.
However, with quite literally an infinite choice of numbers, car manufacturers often repeat/duplicate them
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 21:46:08 GMT
Marketing and spin seem to be the order of the day after all, why tell the truth when you can lie like a lead weight. How on earth did anyone manage to con the world into thinking an suv was going to be a logical and economically (Let alone ecologically) sound investment? Mainly because an awful lot of people have a hyped sense of their driving talent, witness the number of BMW 1 series owners who thought their cars were front drive because "All hatchbacks are FWD". People like them? What made people think they were so great? What trick of marketing made them so desirable? They waste space are less than fugly for the most part and probably heavier on fuel than an alternative could be made. On the back of increasing fuel prices people chose to spend more on it. Stark staring bonkers imvho. |
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 19, 2020 7:42:31 GMT
What made people think they were so great? What trick of marketing made them so desirable? They waste space are less than fugly for the most part and probably heavier on fuel than an alternative could be made. On the back of increasing fuel prices people chose to spend more on it. Stark staring bonkers imvho. I think that part of it is due to their big and imposing, dare I say it, intimidating shape.... very well paid "city-types" and those in positions of power/authority may have seen them as an ideal "expression of their dominance" on the road as well as in the Boardroom etc. |
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 19, 2020 7:50:58 GMT
I mostly see them driven by sub 5’6” women. City types drive 911s and ride bicycles to work. 4x4s - they’re for small business owners and their sub 5’6” tall wives in London.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 19, 2020 8:27:13 GMT
What made people think they were so great? What trick of marketing made them so desirable? They waste space are less than fugly for the most part and probably heavier on fuel than an alternative could be made. On the back of increasing fuel prices people chose to spend more on it. Stark staring bonkers imvho. I think that part of it is due to their big and imposing, dare I say it, intimidating shape.... very well paid "city-types" and those in positions of power/authority may have seen them as an ideal "expression of their dominance" on the road as well as in the Boardroom etc. Is that why you bought your Kuga? People were offered a choice and voted with their wallets, buying SUVs over other choices. Most SUVs take up no more space than their hatch or saloon equivalents, weigh a similar amount, achieve a similar mpg. If it was all a marketing trick people would only buy one and regret it subsequently. The fact that people repeatedly buy SUVs is testament to their popularity and doing what people want them to do. When Nissan brought out the first Qashqai it was a leap of faith, there was no big fanfare, the styling was deliberately inoffensive, and it was an immediate success because it tapped an unfilled demand. QED. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 19, 2020 9:10:28 GMT
What made people think they were so great? What trick of marketing made them so desirable? They waste space are less than fugly for the most part and probably heavier on fuel than an alternative could be made. On the back of increasing fuel prices people chose to spend more on it. Stark staring bonkers imvho. What are you going on about? Maybe people like them. i'm a serous convert having always thought I'd hate an SUV but find myself nicking the XC90 off the missus at every opportunity. They look good, ride superbly over our crap roads, are luxurious, loaded with toys, huge practicality, safe, great for transporting kids and all their crap and getting them in and out is a doddle. And I wouldn't be surprised if the footprint was smaller then a 5 series. I'll grant you that many things in life are aspirational and a full size SUV is part of the makeup of someone who wants the world to know they've made a few quid but so are designer clothes, Rolex watches, fancy trainers, turning left on the plane etc etc. Its not some marketing stitch up just human nature and since Range Rover (or Jeep) invented the category people want to think of themselves as Lord Muck of Cowshit farm. Aspiration, Its why many sit in fancy houses doing jobs we hate rather then being free and poor. |
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Post by Martin on Aug 19, 2020 9:18:05 GMT
What made people think they were so great? What trick of marketing made them so desirable? They waste space are less than fugly for the most part and probably heavier on fuel than an alternative could be made. On the back of increasing fuel prices people chose to spend more on it. Stark staring bonkers imvho. I think that part of it is due to their big and imposing, dare I say it, intimidating shape.... very well paid "city-types" and those in positions of power/authority may have seen them as an ideal "expression of their dominance" on the road as well as in the Boardroom etc. Bob has already stated the obvious flaw in your argument......! I think that most are bought by families rather than “city-types” I don’t think that they’re needed for most families, a decent hatch/estate would do the job just as well and likely be nicer to drive, but nothing wrong with people buying what they like/want. I know a lot of people buy cars based on image, a recent example is one of my team asking for my advice on his shortlist. He currently drives a 2014 430d coupe and he was looking at a 2015 M4 and a 2015 RR Sport AD. Two very different cars and the RRS was on the list “because I quite fancy the idea of something comfortable and it would look good on the drive”. How I kept a straight face I don’t know!! I advised against a 85k mile RRS with a 3 month warranty and he took that advice, he’s bought an M4. A bright green one..... |
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Post by Martin on Aug 19, 2020 9:27:46 GMT
What made people think they were so great? What trick of marketing made them so desirable? They waste space are less than fugly for the most part and probably heavier on fuel than an alternative could be made. On the back of increasing fuel prices people chose to spend more on it. Stark staring bonkers imvho. What are you going on about? Maybe people like them. i'm a serous convert having always thought I'd hate an SUV but find myself nicking the XC90 off the missus at every opportunity. They look good, ride superbly over our crap roads, are luxurious, loaded with toys, huge practicality, safe, great for transporting kids and all their crap and getting them in and out is a doddle. And I wouldn't be surprised if the footprint was smaller then a 5 series. I’m enjoying mine as well and I’d add that they deal with crap/UK weather very well, it was horrible this morning south of Oxford and I was sitting above the spray and it was rock solid through the mini rivers running across the road. I know it will be great in the winter too, especially with the fuel burning heater. The best thing is that it fits the whole family in comfortably and will take our holiday luggage next week without resorting to sticking a shed on the roof. However, if I didn’t need the space I’d still be in the 750i and would be looking for something similar (but with 4WD) when the time came to change. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2020 15:38:48 GMT
G'day Lost it of in the woods here, I have completely balsed that up by talking about crossed overs as SUV's obviously my mistake and I must have had too much of whatever it was with that water. Sorry folks, I shall try to make some sense at least anon.
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