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Post by Tim on Aug 19, 2020 16:02:55 GMT
Surely the rise in popularity in SUVs is five fold:-
1) If you're a sub 5'6" woman in London then you're duty bound to have one to keep up with your peers.
2) If you go to the gym a lot and like tattoos then you're duty bound to have one to support the weight of your muscles and thick neck.
3) If you have a child then you're duty bound to have one because they're so much more useful than an estate.
4) If you want to look good then this is what you need for that, nobody thinks coupes are stylish anymore, something shaped like a brick that looks indistinguishable from its competitors is much more on-trend.
5) If you're old then you need one for ease of access (unless you're a short arse).
On a more serious note point 5 is quite relevant. I remember when my parents were looking for a new, slightly higher up, car in the late '90s and tried a Mk1 Scenic (they'd been out for about 6 months at that point) the salesman mentioned that despite all the smiley young lifestyle families in the sales literature the reality was that at least 50% of buyers were 60 plus who suddenly realised they didn't have to struggle in and out of their low down Rovers anymore.
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Post by michael on Aug 19, 2020 16:06:57 GMT
You forgot:
6) You need one car that can do a lot of things and nothing else comes close.
It's amazing that the three box saloon has lasted as long as it has. It's a hopelessly impractical shape that needlessly squanders the versatility of it's footprint. If any car style is a triumph of looks over practicality it's that.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 19, 2020 16:53:25 GMT
I think that part of it is due to their big and imposing, dare I say it, intimidating shape.... very well paid "city-types" and those in positions of power/authority may have seen them as an ideal "expression of their dominance" on the road as well as in the Boardroom etc. Very definitely NOT |
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 19, 2020 18:09:03 GMT
You forgot: 6) You need one car that can do a lot of things and nothing else comes close. It's amazing that the three box saloon has lasted as long as it has. It's a hopelessly impractical shape that needlessly squanders the versatility of it's footprint. If any car style is a triumph of looks over practicality it's that. Having spent a lot of time in rural Italy this year, I can see the appeal of an SUV if you don't live in the city. If I lived here I'd have an SUV, no question about it. Between the frequency of appalling asphalted road surfaces and the preponderance of roads with no asphalt at all, a car with decent ride height, a cushy ride and an ability to clamber when required is just much more useful. Mind you I'd probably want a Panda 4x4 or a Jimny, plus a normal car. But if I could only have one, then a mid-size SUV would make lots of sense. Back on the original question, I couldn't care less whether a car has a name or a number. I think most of my cars have had numbers, but that's just happenstance as far as I'm concerned. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2020 20:06:41 GMT
7) it was cheaper than an RS3 and doesn't rattle my teeth out.  |
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Post by Alex on Aug 19, 2020 20:44:15 GMT
7) it was cheaper than an RS3 and doesn't attract getaway drivers. Fyp |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 5:49:54 GMT
And that, yes!
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Post by PG on Aug 20, 2020 8:08:34 GMT
It's very interesting. A few years ago buying an SUV "unless you really needed one" risked a forum ban. Now people have either bought them; would consider them; can see the advantage of them. [Guilty on all counts by the way]. Whatever next, people buying battery cars and PHEV's...oh hang on.... Give it a few years and maybe there'll be a section on what are the best buses? |
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Post by Tim on Aug 20, 2020 8:22:09 GMT
Having spent a lot of time in rural Italy this year, I can see the appeal of an SUV if you don't live in the city. If I lived here I'd have an SUV, no question about it. Between the frequency of appalling asphalted road surfaces and the preponderance of roads with no asphalt at all, a car with decent ride height, a cushy ride and an ability to clamber when required is just much more useful. I considered getting a 4x4 of some sort for exactly this reason but rather than something like an X5 on massive wheels with small sidewall tyres it would've been, say, a Landcruiser with deep sidewall tyres to help absorb the impacts of the inevitable potholes. |
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Post by Martin on Aug 20, 2020 8:27:05 GMT
It's very interesting. A few years ago buying an SUV "unless you really needed one" risked a forum ban. Now people have either bought them; would consider them; can see the advantage of them. [Guilty on all counts by the way]. Whatever next, people buying battery cars and PHEV's...oh hang on.... Give it a few years and maybe there'll be a section on what are the best buses? It depends on how you define 'need', but Chris M has definately bought something he doesn't need for reasons he can't explain, although he recent posts on the subject do give us a bit of insight!  As for electric/PHEV purchases (so far), haven't they all been bought/leased for tax reasons? I bet the choices would have been different if the cost was greater than the petrol/diesel equivalent, which is what it would be for a private purchase due to the higher (discounted) list price. |
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Post by johnc on Aug 20, 2020 9:25:42 GMT
As for electric/PHEV purchases (so far), haven't they all been bought/leased for tax reasons? I bet the choices would have been different if the cost was greater than the petrol/diesel equivalent, which is what it would be for a private purchase due to the higher (discounted) list price. Totally in our case. Despite what others might think, the X4 was a great car with plenty of space, remarkable grip, great performance and pretty good economy. After I changed the tyres to Bridgestone S001's the ride was also transformed. Our initial thought was to get another (just the updated model) and stick with the brilliant 3 litre diesel but getting a lightly used one in the right spec was going to cost around £450/mth with another £150 a month on diesel, plus road tax, servicing and repairs, all paid personally from taxed income. Getting a company car was a non starter due to the benefit in kind tax charge. Moving to electric is costing a net (after tax) £395/mth including insurance, road tax and maintenance. With free charging available all around and some charging at home it might cost us c£25/mth at most out of our own taxed income. It is a massive saving but at the same time, it needs to be to initiate a big enough shift to electric powered vehicles. The electric experience is also pretty enjoyable. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 20, 2020 9:51:28 GMT
It's very interesting. A few years ago buying an SUV "unless you really needed one" risked a forum ban. Now people have either bought them; would consider them; can see the advantage of them. [Guilty on all counts by the way]. Whatever next, people buying battery cars and PHEV's...oh hang on.... Give it a few years and maybe there'll be a section on what are the best buses? It depends on how you define 'need', but Chris M has definately bought something he doesn't need for reasons he can't explain, although he recent posts on the subject do give us a bit of insight! As for electric/PHEV purchases (so far), haven't they all been bought/leased for tax reasons? I bet the choices would have been different if the cost was greater than the petrol/diesel equivalent, which is what it would be for a private purchase due to the higher (discounted) list price. I think Chris drives his Kuga wearing red braces and with a Gordon Gekko smile on his face... Tax will always drive the choice. No one wanted to move to diesel (apart from a few caravanners) but we were persuaded to by the promise of lower BIK bills. To be fair this drove the development of diesel engines to the point most of us were perfectly happy with them and I expect this will happen with electric too. Once we get a flood of 3-4 year old electric models onto the secondhand market the take up will accelerate across the board. |
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Post by Martin on Aug 20, 2020 10:22:56 GMT
As for electric/PHEV purchases (so far), haven't they all been bought/leased for tax reasons? I bet the choices would have been different if the cost was greater than the petrol/diesel equivalent, which is what it would be for a private purchase due to the higher (discounted) list price. Totally in our case. Despite what others might think, the X4 was a great car with plenty of space, remarkable grip, great performance and pretty good economy. After I changed the tyres to Bridgestone S001's the ride was also transformed. Our initial thought was to get another (just the updated model) and stick with the brilliant 3 litre diesel but getting a lightly used one in the right spec was going to cost around £450/mth with another £150 a month on diesel, plus road tax, servicing and repairs, all paid personally from taxed income. Getting a company car was a non starter due to the benefit in kind tax charge. Moving to electric is costing a net (after tax) £395/mth including insurance, road tax and maintenance. With free charging available all around and some charging at home it might cost us c£25/mth at most out of our own taxed income. It is a massive saving but at the same time, it needs to be to initiate a big enough shift to electric powered vehicles. The electric experience is also pretty enjoyable. £395 a month is a bargain. As a private buyer on a PCP, 10k miles a year over 4 years with a £6,500 discount would be £917 a month or £1,021 a month including deposit! When I was looking to change, I did the maths on opting back into the company car scheme and a £60k list 530e would save me over £600 a month when you take everything into account (inc loss of allowance). But if I bought one myself it would be a £50k car (new after discount) and a nearly new one would be a fair bit less than that, so I could man maths the difference to a car that costs at least £25k more to buy. But that wouldn't solve the space issue, so I really need to look at it as a replacement for the Golf and then the costs come out broadly the same. So for a lot of people there's a benefit as you get a £50k BMW for the same price as a £36k VW, but I'd rather have the Golf for now and the flexibility for something different when the time comes to change. So in conclusion, going for a hybrid company car wouldn't save me anything! |
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Post by Tim on Aug 20, 2020 10:51:18 GMT
Top quality maths there, as usual, Martin  |
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Post by Martin on Aug 20, 2020 11:05:05 GMT
Top quality maths there, as usual, Martin Thanks Tim! Just had a look at a PCP on an F Pace SVR to see how that compares to an I Pace HSE and on the same terms it's £150 a month cheaper. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 20, 2020 12:13:43 GMT
Top quality maths there, as usual, Martin I swear sometimes it's like Carol Vorderman is actually in the room with us. |
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 20, 2020 12:28:50 GMT
One of the reasons we have a 440i GC and not any of the other cars we shortlisted was that it has cost £390 pcm for a 4yr PCP. Nothing else comparable came even close to costing that little.
And not only that it had the lowest balloon payment at the end.
An Audi S5 Sportback would have cost overall something like £10k more despite a superficially similar list price.
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Post by Tim on Aug 20, 2020 13:46:03 GMT
Top quality maths there, as usual, Martin I swear sometimes it's like Carol Vorderman is actually in the room with us. Martin's a whole lot less plasticky though..... |
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 20, 2020 19:19:58 GMT
It depends on how you define 'need', but Chris M has definately bought something he doesn't need for reasons he can't explain, although he recent posts on the subject do give us a bit of insight! It was cheap ! (read "inexpensive" rather than cheap"). I was all set to buy the C-Max at the end of its PCP but the dealer made me an offer on a Kuga then progressively lowered the cost until it was irresistable and threw in 38 months zero interest PCP. Now, if Ford had still made an MPV with removable seats, near-vertical rear etc etc that fitted in my garage then I'd have gone for that, but the S-Max and Galaxy grew too large. Plus I fancied a change of car as the C-Max being white showed every speck of dirt going. Plus with a 20-mile each-way commute, the extra power and refinement of the Kuga was nice to have, as was AWD which meant I had no issues getting to work and back home on the handful of days when we have had a reasonable amount of snow since getting the Kuga. A change in circumstances (I hope temporary) means that I don't know if I will be able to afford to change the Kuga for some time, however it has a lot of nice goodies and apart from its excessive width (and soft easily-damaged paint) it'll do me OK until hopefully I can afford to retire in a few years.... I just wish it was a bit cheaper to insure, especially in the current covid-19 environment where it is hardly being used (1 fill of fuel since late March 2020 - but I am aiming to fill it the next time that I use it). So much for the X1 that I dreamt of buying for my 60th ! |
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Post by Martin on Aug 20, 2020 20:05:40 GMT
It depends on how you define 'need', but Chris M has definately bought something he doesn't need for reasons he can't explain, although he recent posts on the subject do give us a bit of insight! It was cheap ! (read "inexpensive" rather than cheap"). I was all set to buy the C-Max at the end of its PCP but the dealer made me an offer on a Kuga then progressively lowered the cost until it was irresistable and threw in 38 months zero interest PCP. Now, if Ford had still made an MPV with removable seats, near-vertical rear etc etc that fitted in my garage then I'd have gone for that, but the S-Max and Galaxy grew too large. Plus I fancied a change of car as the C-Max being white showed every speck of dirt going. Plus with a 20-mile each-way commute, the extra power and refinement of the Kuga was nice to have, as was AWD which meant I had no issues getting to work and back home on the handful of days when we have had a reasonable amount of snow since getting the Kuga. A change in circumstances (I hope temporary) means that I don't know if I will be able to afford to change the Kuga for some time, however it has a lot of nice goodies and apart from its excessive width (and soft easily-damaged paint) it'll do me OK until hopefully I can afford to retire in a few years.... I just wish it was a bit cheaper to insure, especially in the current covid-19 environment where it is hardly being used (1 fill of fuel since late March 2020 - but I am aiming to fill it the next time that I use it). So much for the X1 that I dreamt of buying for my 60th ! So....you dreamt of swapping your Ford SUV for an SUV with a more Premium Badge.....mmmmnnnnnnn!  I’m not being serious, it’s just quite funny how negative you are about a type of car you’ve chosen to buy. |
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 20, 2020 20:11:23 GMT
Nope, I dreamt of swapping the old Galaxy for a new Espace...... but when I finally got my inheritance through, Renault had stopped importing them into the UK :-(
Yes, it would have been less expensive to keep the C-Max than to get the Kuga, but I fancied something different and at the time, could afford it.
The other issue is that even if I could afford to change the Kuga at the moment, I'm not sure that there is any new car on the market that I'd actually like to go out and buy. Modern styling, a glut of useless features that I don't want and a deficit of things that I do want don't help matters
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Post by rodge on Aug 21, 2020 2:27:20 GMT
No preference to be honest, I always bought by what was the best fit so it went Fiesta, Mondeo, Focus, 325 SE, S-Max then across this side of the pond to Grand Caravan (awful thing) Lexus RX300 (which keeps going with almost 270,000 on the clock), Honda Odyssey (big, great engine, very unreliable) and now... The problem with a lot of them these days is the name goes on forever. In the good old days of the 325i, adding SE was as far as it went. Now it'd be followed by M Sport Shadowline plug-in-hybrid or something equally as daft. ... BMW X5 XDrive35i Sport At least I think that’s what it’s called! |
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Post by johnc on Aug 21, 2020 8:46:08 GMT
I have 2 clients who have just bought a new Kuga hybrid on 0%apr finance from Ford, on top of a healthy discount - the deal was just too good to ignore according to one - he traded in his 65 plate diesel Kuga and likes the fact it feels a bit smaller since the children have all left home and he doesn't need a large car anymore but his wife likes the higher driving position and the safety of something bigger.
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