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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 12:27:45 GMT
Standards wise they frequently got the best teachers and results were great but over the last decade they have been getting some dire exposure and results not like they used to be.
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Post by Roadrunner on May 14, 2020 12:41:54 GMT
W goes to a high ranking, selective state boys school which has all the look and feel of a private school but without the fees. Most of his work is set and submitted online, but drama and musical instrument lessons are all on Zoom. The school sends out a daily newsletter and a teacher phones every week to check in. There is also a fortnightly wellbeing survey sent to all pupils. It is all excellent and under the circumstances, I have no complaints at all.
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Post by Alex on May 14, 2020 12:44:18 GMT
Back to private school vs state: Our neighbour is a teacher in a private school. Firstly she hates not being at school teaching as the interaction with kids is the reason she's a teacher. Their school does have online lessons in accordance with a timetable but as pointed out these folks (parents) do have the money to enable this. However the bursar is in trouble as lots of parents are either paying less and some not at all - state schools and teacher wages are being funded one way or another so the private sector isn't a bed of roses. The biggest issue we're experiencing is shared broadband. Now we're on a fibre network with speeds and capacity to match but then so is the rest of the area and we're all using it to the max for long periods. Worst culprit seems to be the W2.1's VPN which sucks up loads of space when she's document handling. First world problems and all that.... I have a number of independent school customers that are having real issues with regards to funds as a lot of parents are not paying their fees for this term. Bearing in mind that a lot of school let out their facilities for swimming lessons and holiday camps and the black hole in their funds is getting bigger and bigger. Some are not providing pupils with work as they’ve had to furlough their teachers. State schools are receiving funding as per normal so are able to keep their teachers working (my wife is working everyday to keep up with providing work and marking what work is submitted by her pupils so this is far from the holiday some people seem to think it is for her).
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Post by racingteatray on May 14, 2020 12:59:54 GMT
Back to private school vs state: Our neighbour is a teacher in a private school. Firstly she hates not being at school teaching as the interaction with kids is the reason she's a teacher. Their school does have online lessons in accordance with a timetable but as pointed out these folks (parents) do have the money to enable this. However the bursar is in trouble as lots of parents are either paying less and some not at all - state schools and teacher wages are being funded one way or another so the private sector isn't a bed of roses. The biggest issue we're experiencing is shared broadband. Now we're on a fibre network with speeds and capacity to match but then so is the rest of the area and we're all using it to the max for long periods. Worst culprit seems to be the W2.1's VPN which sucks up loads of space when she's document handling. First world problems and all that.... Interesting. Our broadband (also fibre optic both in the house and out in the street) so far (grab wood) has been fine even though my wife and I are using it to work 10-12hr days and both handle big files all the time. Which makes me wonder whether the culprits is more whatever your kids are doing with the Wifi, since that's not an issue we have?
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Post by Martin on May 14, 2020 13:07:00 GMT
Our broadband has been pretty good, not quite as fast as it used to be, but we're getting 40GB+ all the time. We've had two teenagers in the house for a week which has taken it's toll on occasion but I've still been able to join large Teams meetings without turning video/screen sharing off.
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Post by PG on May 14, 2020 13:40:28 GMT
...Unfortunately your living in an ideal world there. I accept that what I said was a good soundbite of generalisations and I am imagining an ideal world. But I do believe that unless education sets standards and pushes kids to attain those, we'll never improve more people's lot in life. And I don't mean that everyone should get A levels and a degree - people achieving their potential is what is key. And turning out good members of society. I feel very sorry for your wife having to, in effect, act like a social worker, making up for the shortfalls in parenting and society. I used to have a regular argument with a friend of our who was a head teacher. She said that society was to blame for kids having no food. I said that you had to also call it bad parenting, or else all that happens is it is passed on from generation to generation. When I did some work for Shropshire food Hub they were on a big thing about school breakfast clubs. Kids who just had a can of coke for breakfast etc. My view is that you do have to help those children, but you've got to address the core issue. Parents who think that a can of coke is acceptable as breakfast. Unless the child stole the money, they must have been given it to buy the coke. And for the price of a can of coke you can have something better for you. I just looked it up - two weetabix would be 32p.
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Post by chipbutty on May 14, 2020 14:22:44 GMT
3 kids off school
The 2 boys passed their 11+ and won places to Stratford Grammar - the online work they have been doing is, at best, borderline unacceptable (IMO). However, it is a huge amount more than other kids are getting at the local comp type place. Obviously - missing friends, rugby and football practise and matches (school team and local team)
The pink one is in her last year of primary and they have been a complete and utter waste of space - no work set, nothing (so we do that). She is gutted, misses her friends, all the cool trips have been cancelled and the leavers ball will likely get shit canned as well (all major stuff when you are ten).
Ok - she might be able to go back to what looks like a low rent gimp convention, in June - but I think this is one of the more shocking derilictions from this Covid arse up.
For anyone " sitting " exams - they have my sympathy ten fold.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 14, 2020 14:31:12 GMT
An economist made the point that, historically, young people entering employment during a recession are impacted for the rest of their life in terms of reduced earnings and opportunities. Young people entering the market in the next couple of years will find themselves poorly educated and in a depression. I feel really sorry for them.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 14, 2020 15:02:43 GMT
Ok - she might be able to go back to what looks like a low rent gimp convention, in June - but I think this is one of the more shocking derilictions from this Covid arse up. How nice JLR are still offering take your child to work days in the current environment.
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Post by alf on May 21, 2020 12:02:52 GMT
I didn't think this would break Britain - I thought we would have a recession along the lines of 2008/9. That was was very bad bad (and I argued all along would probably lead to as many deaths as a lockdown) but we recovered.
Now I am worried. The Furlough scheme was taken up massively, by loads of businesses that did not have to use it. It seemed logical to take the money, but people on Furlough can't work (I wish we had done a part-tie scheme from the start) so it effectively meant killing their businesses dead - and many will now stay that way. Some industries like Tourism and Hospitality could not avoid it, but I think a lot more have committed hari kari for no reason.
Human nature has kicked in hugely as well now. Millions of furloughed workers have been sitting on their arses for 80% pay and not allowed to work at all. A lot of public sector workers are on full pay and doing less work than before, with much better job security than the rest of us. The usual ill educated conspiracy theory tripe has proliferated online, and people now don't want to send their children back to school, or go back to work. This despite the risk to young children being tiny, and the risks many of these people are happy to take in other aspects of their lives (diet, exercise, flouting furlough, drinking, etc) far outweighing the risk from the virus.
Also there is a huge political side to this. Starmer and Sturgeon have been utterly hypocritical in discussing the need for national unity while making political capital and Sturgeon has fallen below Nigel Farage in my estimation (i.e. sub pond life). Unions - hating the Tories - will now try and stop people going back to work unless 100% safe (which basically nothing in our lives can ever be). There will be massive private sector redundancies, and a huge deficit, and it follows that public sector will need pay cuts/redundancies/greater flexibility (e.g. why are we not scrapping school summer holidays?) but this will all be made a huge political issue now and endless noise will be made about any new "austerity".
I could not dare mention this on FB or in public much without being flamed - but as usual public sector will come out of this far better than most of us, but all the noise will be about how hard done by they are. I recall well a time in 2009 when 300k private sector workers had lost their jobs in the recession, and 30k public sector, and yet ALL of the political and TV noise was about the latter. People that would have voted for Comrade Corbyn don't understand economics one bit, they will have no interest in necessities, and I predict a huge amount of discontent for years now as the half of the country that hate the Tories use this crisis to assault a Tory government that previously looked untouchable. We will all lose out as a result.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 21, 2020 12:14:14 GMT
I'm having a very enjoyable debate with my teacher brother-in-law and his colleagues. He posted a facebook meme about kids not going back to school until Parliament re-sat and kids weren't lab rats for the Tory Party, and June 1st was far too early to consider going back.
I suggested as a compromise that this school year should be ended now so teachers could have 6-8 weeks holiday and then go back for next year early - say from mid-July onwards. That way they could spend a couple of months bringing the kids up to speed before starting next year's syllabus. It would also mean kids wouldn't have been out of schools for more than 5 months by Sept.
Cue howls of protest - teachers have been working flat out during the crisis, English teachers work through to August. You can't change the terms and working conditions just like that... I really feel they are so out of touch with reality it's frightening. Apparently Banksy's next wall picture will be of a teacher bravely staying at home.
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Post by michael on May 21, 2020 12:18:37 GMT
When Matt Hancock first announced that schools will reopen in June he also said this was based on the virus becoming under more control and there being substantially less cases than there were at the time. London has had no new cases for a few days and there should be a lot less virus around by June, but this matter has been completely overlooked. There has also been a study with 90k participants that reported young people are most likely to ignore the social distancing rules. The same study, the same people, thought the social distancing rules were too relaxed.
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Post by michael on May 21, 2020 12:21:08 GMT
I suggested as a compromise that this school year should be ended now so teachers could have 6-8 weeks holiday and then go back for next year early - say from mid-July onwards. That way they could spend a couple of months bringing the kids up to speed before starting next year's syllabus. It would also mean kids wouldn't have been out of schools for more than 5 months by Sept. Use this link next time if you want to go for the nuclear option: www.usforthem.co.uk/
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 21, 2020 12:41:33 GMT
I suggested as a compromise that this school year should be ended now so teachers could have 6-8 weeks holiday and then go back for next year early - say from mid-July onwards. That way they could spend a couple of months bringing the kids up to speed before starting next year's syllabus. It would also mean kids wouldn't have been out of schools for more than 5 months by Sept. Use this link next time if you want to go for the nuclear option: www.usforthem.co.uk/Nuclear option.... you're not wrong there. I'll need to check he's taking his blood pressure medication.
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Post by Tim on May 21, 2020 13:09:08 GMT
Also there is a huge political side to this. Starmer and Sturgeon have been utterly hypocritical in discussing the need for national unity while making political capital and Sturgeon has fallen below Nigel Farage in my estimation (i.e. sub pond life). Unions - hating the Tories - will now try and stop people going back to work unless 100% safe (which basically nothing in our lives can ever be). There will be massive private sector redundancies, and a huge deficit, and it follows that public sector will need pay cuts/redundancies/greater flexibility (e.g. why are we not scrapping school summer holidays?) but this will all be made a huge political issue now and endless noise will be made about any new "austerity". I could not dare mention this on FB or in public much without being flamed - but as usual public sector will come out of this far better than most of us, but all the noise will be about how hard done by they are. I recall well a time in 2009 when 300k private sector workers had lost their jobs in the recession, and 30k public sector, and yet ALL of the political and TV noise was about the latter. People that would have voted for Comrade Corbyn don't understand economics one bit, they will have no interest in necessities, and I predict a huge amount of discontent for years now as the half of the country that hate the Tories use this crisis to assault a Tory government that previously looked untouchable. We will all lose out as a result. It's always like this, whichever side is in power and whoever is in opposition. Do you really think the Tories would've kept quiet if Labour had been in power (and I thank god, if he exists, that they weren't)? The simple answer is no. All they're doing is reaffirming that none of them is worthy of our support but we're all caught in that place where we occasionally have to pick one
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Post by michael on May 21, 2020 13:12:42 GMT
As a Tory I'm very glad of Starmer and an example of why would be yesterdays PMQs where Boris had to seriously up his game. The tactics Labour have employed have been unsurprising, what has been surprising is how little pushback there has been (up to now) against them.
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Post by alf on May 21, 2020 13:22:41 GMT
that "usforthem" link actually makes far more sense than the arguments on the extreme wing of the other side... This virus appears very different to flu, where young children are known to play a massive part in the transmission, and they also don't suffer much from it...
Cancelling the summer holidays, giving the schools a bit longer to prepare, and then doing effectively a term and a half in one go makes logical sense as well. Teachers can moan all they like, but the current situation will be widening the economic divide and as people have pointed out, it will have lifelong effects in some cases.
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Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2020 13:27:29 GMT
As a Tory I'm very glad of Starmer and an example of why would be yesterdays PMQs where Boris had to seriously up his game. The tactics Labour have employed have been unsurprising, what has been surprising is how little pushback there has been (up to now) against them. Quite so, although I'm an ex-Tory and likely to remain one. On an earlier discussion point, as ever (because it's usually true), I think both sides of this debate are exaggerating to defend their views. For example, on the education front, not being a teacher, I wouldn't presume to know how hard teachers are or are not working. All I know is that most of our friends' childrens are still being taught, just remotely. Likewise, our next-door neighbour is a professor at King's College and she's been working her socks off marking hundreds of remotely-held exams.
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Post by alf on May 21, 2020 13:34:24 GMT
My daughter has been working 4-5 hours a day - she and we wanted her to go to the most academically successful school in the area, not the catchment one, and she got in. The catchment one that many of her friends go to has set barely any work at all - 1-2 hours max a day - with none of the "Teams" classes and other excellent organisation my daughter's school have managed. Pretty much no assessments and teacher input at all - it feels very much as if they have just all given up. How is that normal work for the teachers?
It remains to be seen how necessary all the elements of the lockdown actually were, but the shools side will have lifelong implications for many. I feel sorry for those being marked on their year's work not exams, that would not have worked for me - at uni and school I could churn out the same quality of work in an exam as during the year, and crammed well, and always outperformed suggested grades. A lot of people best placed to succeed in stressful real jobs will have been marked down...
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Post by ChrisM on May 21, 2020 13:35:48 GMT
You'll never win.... a bit like the rumpus a couple of days ago when the suggestion was made for a new Bank Holiday in October.
Most of us who have been working flat out will be grateful for a "day off" to recover a bit of lost energy etc, but many others who may have only recently returned to work and who are in debt, and who are hourly paid will not want to loose a day's wages.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 21, 2020 13:50:23 GMT
As a Tory I'm very glad of Starmer and an example of why would be yesterdays PMQs where Boris had to seriously up his game. The tactics Labour have employed have been unsurprising, what has been surprising is how little pushback there has been (up to now) against them. Quite so, although I'm an ex-Tory and likely to remain one. On an earlier discussion point, as ever (because it's usually true), I think both sides of this debate are exaggerating to defend their views. For example, on the education front, not being a teacher, I wouldn't presume to know how hard teachers are or are not working. All I know is that most of our friends' childrens are still being taught, just remotely. Likewise, our next-door neighbour is a professor at King's College and she's been working her socks off marking hundreds of remotely-held exams. My nieces and nephews at private schools are still getting taught, friends with kids at State schools, much less so.
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Post by ChrisM on May 21, 2020 13:52:09 GMT
The Covid-19 saga has shown us that running a country is far too important to be left to politicians.....
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Post by michael on May 21, 2020 13:54:55 GMT
The Covid-19 saga has shown us that running a country is far too important to be left to politicians..... Has it? Seems that neither the NHS nor care homes have been able to supply their own PPE without the government becoming involved.
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Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2020 14:06:20 GMT
Quite so, although I'm an ex-Tory and likely to remain one. On an earlier discussion point, as ever (because it's usually true), I think both sides of this debate are exaggerating to defend their views. For example, on the education front, not being a teacher, I wouldn't presume to know how hard teachers are or are not working. All I know is that most of our friends' childrens are still being taught, just remotely. Likewise, our next-door neighbour is a professor at King's College and she's been working her socks off marking hundreds of remotely-held exams. My nieces and nephews at private schools are still getting taught, friends with kids at State schools, much less so. This point did occur to me.
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Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2020 14:13:21 GMT
The Covid-19 saga has shown us that running a country is far too important to be left to politicians..... Has it? Seems that neither the NHS nor care homes have been able to supply their own PPE without the government becoming involved. The politicians simply need to be competent. And I am a strong believer in a competent politician typically being one who has had a proper career in a role that involved them developing real world competencies through learning about commercial pressures, leadership and responsibility for one's actions and others, prior to becoming a politician. Career politicians, particularly those who've never been anything other than a think-tank wonk or "spad" before going into politics are usually bad news. As, in general, are journalists-turned-politicians. They seem to often lack the ability to accurately put theory into practice (or perhaps more accurately, gauge which theories will work in practice).
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Post by PetrolEd on May 21, 2020 15:05:59 GMT
My daughter has been working 4-5 hours a day - she and we wanted her to go to the most academically successful school in the area, not the catchment one, and she got in. The catchment one that many of her friends go to has set barely any work at all - 1-2 hours max a day - with none of the "Teams" classes and other excellent organisation my daughter's school have managed. Pretty much no assessments and teacher input at all - it feels very much as if they have just all given up. How is that normal work for the teachers? I can only try and put across what I see in our house. The problem is that you don't see what goes on in the background only the work that is set which I wouldn't expect you to seek out. As a partner of a teacher I see how much work they are currently doing. In an industry that is used to taking holidays the fact they've been working none stop since Feb means they're doing more then their fair share. Boo hoo for them I'm sure your not thinking but then you sign up to an industry that isn't particularly well paid due to the benefits. As a manager in our organisation if I cancelled holidays I'd expect a fair degree of hostility however the schools have grudgingly done so and worked through. I'm not suggesting that teachers are working at 100% capacity but very few industries are. Most of us are lucky that you don't see the other side of the coin. Teachers are heavily involved in social care currently. The stories are bloody shocking of how poor parenting is and therefore it teachers doing the rounds everyday that makes sure they are eating etc. I'm guessing middle class families aren't a priority currently, which I don't agree with but understand why. Teachers want to get back to work. The problem is they are a unionised industry and therefore it the NUT that's the cause of the problems. I'm still amazed you have to be in a union if you want to teach as most don't want anything to do with them and give them a piss poor reputation. Don't forget there is a large number of parents who don't want their kids going back to school and hearing the conversations I have, its these issues that will stop the schools opening fully.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 21, 2020 15:11:50 GMT
Quite so, although I'm an ex-Tory and likely to remain one. On an earlier discussion point, as ever (because it's usually true), I think both sides of this debate are exaggerating to defend their views. For example, on the education front, not being a teacher, I wouldn't presume to know how hard teachers are or are not working. All I know is that most of our friends' childrens are still being taught, just remotely. Likewise, our next-door neighbour is a professor at King's College and she's been working her socks off marking hundreds of remotely-held exams. My nieces and nephews at private schools are still getting taught, friends with kids at State schools, much less so. And is the beauty of paying for an education. You have non of the other worries, just education to deliver. All students will have a computer to do their studies and a home environment that is supportive. In the state system you can't just leave kids behind. Cut off the weak for the plenty isn't a thing in the state system. If thats right or wrong is another thing altogether.
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Post by Martin on May 21, 2020 15:22:21 GMT
My daughter has been working 4-5 hours a day - she and we wanted her to go to the most academically successful school in the area, not the catchment one, and she got in. The catchment one that many of her friends go to has set barely any work at all - 1-2 hours max a day - with none of the "Teams" classes and other excellent organisation my daughter's school have managed. Pretty much no assessments and teacher input at all - it feels very much as if they have just all given up. How is that normal work for the teachers? I can only try and put across what I see in our house. The problem is that you don't see what goes on in the background only the work that is set which I wouldn't expect you to seek out. As a partner of a teacher I see how much work they are currently doing. In an industry that is used to taking holidays the fact they've been working none stop since Feb means they're doing more then their fair share. Boo hoo for them I'm sure your not thinking but then you sign up to an industry that isn't particularly well paid due to the benefits. As a manager in our organisation if I cancelled holidays I'd expect a fair degree of hostility however the schools have grudgingly done so and worked through. I'm not suggesting that teachers are working at 100% capacity but very few industries are. Most of us are lucky that you don't see the other side of the coin. Teachers are heavily involved in social care currently. The stories are bloody shocking of how poor parenting is and therefore it teachers doing the rounds everyday that makes sure they are eating etc. I'm guessing middle class families aren't a priority currently, which I don't agree with but understand why. Teachers want to get back to work. The problem is they are a unionised industry and therefore it the NUT that's the cause of the problems. I'm still amazed you have to be in a union if you want to teach as most don't want anything to do with them and give them a piss poor reputation. Don't forget there is a large number of parents who don't want their kids going back to school and hearing the conversations I have, its these issues that will stop the schools opening fully. And there was me thinking it was because of the desire to educate! As with all industries there are teachers prepared to put the effort in and do more than is required and there are others who try and get away with the bare minimum. We've got several friends plus my sister who are teachers and from my (admittedly still limited) experience of primary school teaching, it is possible to have a pretty easy life if you stay in the same year group and are happy regurgitating (with syllabus tweaks) the same stuff each year. Keep your head down and your salary will increase based on length of service not how good you are, enjoy the long holidays and enjoy the job security. My sister loves her job, spending a lot of time outside the school day and during the holidays working, but a number of her colleagues drive her mad with the effort they put in and she hasn't yet worked for a head teacher who is good at managing performance / people.
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Post by michael on May 21, 2020 15:25:04 GMT
Do you have to be in a union to be a teacher?
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Post by Martin on May 21, 2020 15:28:07 GMT
Do you have to be in a union to be a teacher? I thought there were a few unions, not just the NUT and it wasn't compulsory to join any of them?
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