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Post by Martin on Apr 11, 2019 17:49:42 GMT
So, the S6 had a V10 a few years back, then downsized to a V8 turbo and the new one has downsized again, to a V6 diesel. I do like a big diesel with 6 cylinders, but as a sleeper, not the performance model in the range. I know an RS6 is coming, but it still doesn’t feel quite right to me.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 11, 2019 18:25:28 GMT
I know what you mean, seems a bit strange but the torque figures are impressive. I would have thought they would downsize the petrol V6 and make it up with hybridisation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 18:27:01 GMT
Maybe it'll end up like the SQ5 and have a choice of engines? If they do the same to the other S cars people won't be very happy. Imagine your typical S3 owner being told his next car will sup from the black pump!
Might also be a ploy to tempt people to move up a rung to an RS car?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 18:44:24 GMT
How does that work when diesel is being priced out of most city's? How much longer will people be able to HAVE a diesel in London for example.
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Post by Martin on Apr 11, 2019 18:53:39 GMT
I know what you mean, seems a bit strange but the torque figures are impressive. I would have thought they would downsize the petrol V6 and make it up with hybridisation. That’s what I was expecting, either a mild hybrid as Mercedes has done with the 53s or a plug in. They could have the engine from the Panamera / Cayenne Hybrid, 450hp and low emissions but I guess that would push the price up too much? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 7:16:22 GMT
This is all wrong. Diesel has many plusses, but I'd rather have an electric performance car than a diesel.
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Post by johnc on Apr 12, 2019 7:52:55 GMT
This is all wrong. Diesel has many plusses, but I'd rather have an electric performance car than a diesel. You've obviously not been in the right kind of diesel. However I do remember making a post after I had a passenger ride in a P90D Tesla that I had just seen the future: they just need to get the range up to 400 miles. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 8:19:12 GMT
I am not talking about effectiveness. If I am to forego a petrol soundtrack and rev range, I'd much prefer to go the whole hog and (as you say) embrace the future.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 12, 2019 10:14:25 GMT
This is all wrong. Diesel has many plusses, but I'd rather have an electric performance car than a diesel. You've obviously not been in the right kind of diesel. However I do remember making a post after I had a passenger ride in a P90D Tesla that I had just seen the future: they just need to get the range up to 400 miles. .... and make it minutes-quick to re-charge, and make recharging points much more plentiful with no queueing to use them |
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Post by johnc on Apr 12, 2019 10:32:24 GMT
I still think that Hydrogen will be the eventual solution but it might be 10 years before they have the technology properly sorted.
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Post by Martin on Apr 12, 2019 10:36:16 GMT
I stayed in a Hotel last night which had a Tesla Supercharger and marked parking space adjacent to the entrance. There was a Model S parked there, but it wasn’t plugged in, which must have really annoyed the other Tesla model S owner parked 4 spaces away.
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Post by johnc on Apr 12, 2019 10:55:38 GMT
I stayed in a Hotel last night which had a Tesla Supercharger and marked parking space adjacent to the entrance. There was a Model S parked there, but it wasn’t plugged in, which must have really annoyed the other Tesla model S owner parked 4 spaces away. It probably belonged to the manager. Most hotel managers I know, consider the space at the front door to belong to them! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 15:38:15 GMT
Just read the article. Bit galling that the US gets a petrol version with 450PS.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 12, 2019 16:26:59 GMT
Just read the article. Bit galling that the US gets a petrol version with 450PS. Quite a bit less torque though. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 12, 2019 16:49:41 GMT
It does seem rather odd to add a performance diesel to the range right now given that the market is looking towards petrol and increasingly hybridisation. Boosting the V6 turbo from the S4/5 would surely of been the more future proof route but then perhaps diesel has still got a few more years left in this size car before the market really shifts to electric power.
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Post by PG on Apr 12, 2019 17:23:38 GMT
Perhaps post diesel-gate they had loads of unused V6 diesel engines lying about and thought "WTF can we do with these?"....
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 12, 2019 21:54:50 GMT
It does seem rather odd to add a performance diesel to the range right now given that the market is looking towards petrol and increasingly hybridisation. Boosting the V6 turbo from the S4/5 would surely of been the more future proof route but then perhaps diesel has still got a few more years left in this size car before the market really shifts to electric power. Apparently the German diesel market is rebounding and as the latest ones are classed as ULEVs maybe reports of their demise is premature. |
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Post by johnc on Apr 15, 2019 9:08:03 GMT
Apparently the German diesel market is rebounding and as the latest ones are classed as ULEVs maybe reports of their demise is premature. That's my take on it. The latest diesels with the post dieselgate updates, emit virtually no NOx - and these have been tested under the new WLTP conditions. Some of the petrols (such as RS4 and 5) have been unobtainable new for nearly a year now and no word on when or if that might change. |
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Post by Sav on Apr 15, 2019 23:19:57 GMT
Maybe it makes sense. The S6/M550/E53 market is so miniscule anyway, buyers wanting a high-powered petrol are more likely to go the whole hog and get an M5 or RS6 in the UK. Plus, with these being mile munchers, the range of a diesel makes sense to the limited number of people who will buy them. I only ever recall seeing two last-gen S6’s, and only three S7’s. I still see a lot of last-generation SQ5’s, I think despite the rhetoric over diesel, there is a market for fast diesels.
VAG seems to have been hit hardest by WLTP. BMW have managed to get the M4 approved, and Mercedes have also managed to get the C63 approved, despite both being petrol. There was talk of the RS5 Sportback coming to Europe after its US launch, er, good luck with that!
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 16, 2019 7:20:59 GMT
Does WLTP set limits for emissions and ban those vehicles that exceed them, or is it just a different way to measure emissions/consumption?
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Post by johnc on Apr 16, 2019 7:42:48 GMT
Does WLTP set limits for emissions and ban those vehicles that exceed them, or is it just a different way to measure emissions/consumption? It's just a more real life measurement of emissions. The tests are much more stringent and every combination of wheel size and engine size gets tested separately together with any additional equipment which adds more than a certain amount of weight (10kgs I think) - e.g. a sunroof or possibly towbar. The number of vehicle permutations is now massively increased which has led to a big backlog in getting vehicles certified. Some cars (Golf R is one I believe) are having changes to their fuelling which might bring back the carbon build up on the valves but the headline emissions are less. Because CO2 emissions are used to tax motorists, in so many countries, the manufacturers need to keep the figures low. |
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 16, 2019 9:50:55 GMT
I've yet to meet an exciting diesel engine. Impressive, yes. Exciting, no.
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Post by PG on Apr 16, 2019 12:47:41 GMT
Does WLTP set limits for emissions and ban those vehicles that exceed them, or is it just a different way to measure emissions/consumption? It's just a more real life measurement of emissions. The tests are much more stringent and every combination of wheel size and engine size gets tested separately together with any additional equipment which adds more than a certain amount of weight (10kgs I think) - e.g. a sunroof or possibly towbar. The number of vehicle permutations is now massively increased which has led to a big backlog in getting vehicles certified. Some cars (Golf R is one I believe) are having changes to their fuelling which might bring back the carbon build up on the valves but the headline emissions are less. Because CO2 emissions are used to tax motorists, in so many countries, the manufacturers need to keep the figures low. So they could get performance cars tested under WLTP if they wanted to. But the new emissions would be way higher than under the old system. Which makes the cynic in me think that the cars that have been released with WLTP figures (e.g M4) probably had OK figures to begin with and those that have not - yes I'm looking at you VAG - had some wizard wheezes or were designed merely to look good under the old system. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 18:01:00 GMT
I've yet to meet an exciting diesel engine. Impressive, yes. Exciting, no. Some years ago there was a very exciting diesel development of the Caterham seven which Cropley wrote about. Apparently hot matter off a shovel.
Correction, it was a Westfield.
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Post by Martin on Apr 17, 2019 17:55:38 GMT
The S5 is back after disappearing due to the WLTP mess. With the Diesel engine from the new S6, so it has 342hp (-10) and 516lb ft forks (+147).
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Post by Sav on Apr 23, 2019 22:27:37 GMT
Have Audi just given business to BMW and Merc? They will both sell you a 4WD petrol model at this price point. The M340i launches in the Summer, I'm sure the M440i Coupe/Gran Coupe will follow. Risky for Audi to potentially offer no petrol version at the 350 bhp level, I see a lot of current-gen S5's - depends how many owners want to go TDI. What happens in markets like the US that don't do performance diesels?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 24, 2019 7:22:32 GMT
Have Audi just given business to BMW and Merc? They will both sell you a 4WD petrol model at this price point. The M340i launches in the Summer, I'm sure the M440i Coupe/Gran Coupe will follow. Risky for Audi to potentially offer no petrol version at the 350 bhp level, I see a lot of current-gen S5's - depends how many owners want to go TDI. What happens in markets like the US that don't do performance diesels? The US gets a petrol version. |
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Post by racingteatray on May 2, 2019 11:29:00 GMT
www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/diesel-v6-confirmed-for-audi-s4-update/40024This is an odd decision, at least for the UK market. You see a fair number of S4s around the affluent part of west London I live in, but the market for diesels in London is dropping off a cliff. I would never take the risk of buying one. It's not just ULEZ. The Borough of Westminster (which covers a surprisingly large part of central London - look at a map) already charges you more to park a pre-2015 diesel car, and this is only going one way.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 2, 2019 12:08:49 GMT
WTF is that about, I find the S4 a rather desirable car in its current format, a diesel S4 just isn't
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Post by Tim on May 2, 2019 12:13:51 GMT
Perhaps the V6 petrol has been hammered by WLTP regs and this is their solution?
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