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Post by racingteatray on Feb 7, 2019 19:25:04 GMT
This makes for worrying reading:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47155145I always thought the move by JLR to a heavy reliance on diesel was a mistake. Let's hope they turn it around with the electric stuff. Personally I think electric will suit the whole Jaguar image well - all whisper-hush and whathaveyou... |
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Post by PG on Feb 7, 2019 20:00:12 GMT
Whilst it is not a "cash loss" now, it does mean that £3bn of previous cash investment has been wasted. Which is pretty shocking. I'm just amazed that Ralph Speth is still in his job. How is that possible? He should be bouncing down the road on his arse.
I really do hope they can turn it around.
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Post by Alex on Feb 7, 2019 22:59:21 GMT
I can’t understand why the technology used to make the i pace is restricted to that model, surely it would have made sense to have a Range Rover and Land Rover sister model to profit from the development costs? Instead they’ve just released a Velar SVA. Great car but bad timing.
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 8, 2019 8:02:19 GMT
Whilst it is not a "cash loss" now, it does mean that £3bn of previous cash investment has been wasted. Which is pretty shocking. I'm just amazed that Ralph Speth is still in his job. How is that possible? He should be bouncing down the road on his arse. I really do hope they can turn it around. Eh? It says that £3.1bn of the £3.4bn loss was a reduction in book value of its plants and investments. There may be good reasons for this (possibly to do with tax) and does not state in which countries this reduction applies. Complicated tax rules mean plenty of scope for people and companies to "fiddle" with their books...... |
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Post by Tim on Feb 8, 2019 9:10:32 GMT
Whilst it is not a "cash loss" now, it does mean that £3bn of previous cash investment has been wasted. Which is pretty shocking. I'm just amazed that Ralph Speth is still in his job. How is that possible? He should be bouncing down the road on his arse. I really do hope they can turn it around. Eh? It says that £3.1bn of the £3.4bn loss was a reduction in book value of its plants and investments. There may be good reasons for this (possibly to do with tax) and does not state in which countries this reduction applies. Complicated tax rules mean plenty of scope for people and companies to "fiddle" with their books...... Ahem, let me defend the accountancy profession! You can't just randomly write-down the value of assets without some support - in this case some of it'll be from valuers. It's not a cash loss unless the assets get sold now and I presume the opportunity has been taken to put through the worst case scenario valuation. I'm always a bit wary of these anyway - the firm I worked for from 2007-12 had a large loan secured on property. When the loan came up for review after the financial crash the properties were valued on a 'fire-sale' basis and were apparently worth 20% of the book value at the point the loan was taken out. Mind you this was at the instigation of RBS' notorious GRG department.... |
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Post by PG on Feb 8, 2019 12:50:25 GMT
Whilst it is not a "cash loss" now, it does mean that £3bn of previous cash investment has been wasted. Which is pretty shocking. I'm just amazed that Ralph Speth is still in his job. How is that possible? He should be bouncing down the road on his arse. I really do hope they can turn it around. Eh? It says that £3.1bn of the £3.4bn loss was a reduction in book value of its plants and investments. There may be good reasons for this (possibly to do with tax) and does not state in which countries this reduction applies. Complicated tax rules mean plenty of scope for people and companies to "fiddle" with their books...... If a car company spends £3Bn (of real money, like wages, materials) on development of something, it has two accounting choices. (1) Write it off as you spend it - i.e show it as costs in your profit and loss account. Or, (2) if you can justify that it will support sufficient future revenue streams, carry it forward as an asset on your balance sheet. This benefits your immediate results as there are less costs in your profit and loss account. And with all the tax incentives for R&D etc, you can probably have the best of both worlds (if you think that way) - get tax relief as you spend (pay less tax) it but carry the costs forward against future sales (so immediate earnings look better for shareholders). Either way, you don't have the £3Bn of cash anymore - you've spent it. Nearly all car companies do the carry forward approach, as do companies in many other industrias - software; engineering; Carillion etc If you adopt the carry forward approach, then if the future sales are less than forecast when you justified the asset value, you have to write the asset down. This results in a large loss in your profit and loss account. Oh, the company will say, it is just writing down an asset value, it is not a cash loss, we are fine. But they still don't have the £3Bn. They still spent it at the original time. If you want to do soome different development, you need to go and get another £3Bn from somewhere. So for me, these sort of announcements show that a past decision was utterly shit and that the company has wasted a lot of money. That is why Speth should go. He sanctioned spending the £3Bn. He oversaw this debacle. |
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Post by Roadsterstu on Feb 8, 2019 13:49:46 GMT
If he does go it will no doubt be with a huge pay-off, as often seems to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 16:27:46 GMT
I hope they can sort it out.
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Post by Sav on Feb 8, 2019 23:10:37 GMT
I wonder if there is a significant enough market for the F-Pace V8. F-Pace sales declined in the final quarter of 2018, are punters willing to shell out for a thirstier V8 version? I dunno, Mercedes can afford to fill that niche with a compact V8 SUV because they can afford to fill every single niche. I would have thought that if someone wanted a V8 JLR SUV at that price point, they would go for a Velar V8.
I thought JLR had a plan to introduce a petrol inline six? What happened to that? The supercharged V8 is an ageing unit, and its a bit strange that the petrol XE and XF have nothing more than four-pots - especially abroad where capacity still matters.
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Post by Roadrunner on Feb 9, 2019 8:02:20 GMT
Oh, and their website is a laughably slow, unresponsive piece of shit. I repeatedly tried to configure a Discovery Sport last night and just gave up in the end.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 8:40:31 GMT
Jaguars seem to be a rare sight on the road these days, so surely it must be that part that is losing money? I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen an E-Pace since they came onto the market and that was probably designed to be their volume seller.
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Post by Alex on Feb 9, 2019 9:03:58 GMT
Perhaps the decision to build that nice new engine plant in Wolverhampton which probably included significant investment in Diesel engine production lines is being seen as a bad one now. Add in the potential problems caused by raw materials and components that have to come in from the EU being affected by a no deal Brexit and it’s east to see how, as an asset, the engine plant is now devalued.
Agree regarding the E pace, I’ve seen very few on the roads and the XE isn’t exactly a common sight either.
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Post by Martin on Feb 9, 2019 9:10:55 GMT
I’ve seen a few E Pace and it’s horribly dumpy, which is very difficult to avoid on a small SUV plus I think the monthly PCP is similar to an Evoque, so it doesn’t stand a chance.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 14:51:43 GMT
Drove to Reading earlier today and had a count up of current Jag models spotted. I saw six, four saloons (I really can't tell the difference between XE and XF at a distance) and two SUVs. Ironically, one of them was an E after posting the above. Still one hand, though.
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JLR woes
Feb 9, 2019 17:38:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by PetrolEd on Feb 9, 2019 17:38:10 GMT
I’ve seen a few E Pace and it’s horribly dumpy, which is very difficult to avoid on a small SUV plus I think the monthly PCP is similar to an Evoque, so it doesn’t stand a chance. And having looked at this weeks autocar, more expensive than a Macan which seems crazy to me. |
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 9, 2019 17:44:08 GMT
Drove to Reading earlier today and had a count up of current Jag models spotted. I saw six, four saloons (I really can't tell the difference between XE and XF at a distance) and two SUVs. Ironically, one of them was an E after posting the above. Still one hand, though. Didn't realise you were a Fenland native!  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 18:02:34 GMT
That didn't come out right obviously. I meant, even with today's spot, I've only seen three or four E-Paces!  |
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 9, 2019 20:29:31 GMT
That didn't come out right obviously. I meant, even with today's spot, I've only seen three or four E-Paces! I know. I may be feeling more than a little childish today! |
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Post by PG on Feb 10, 2019 17:24:10 GMT
And having looked at this weeks autocar, more expensive than a Macan which seems crazy to me. They were comparing the most expensive E-Pace with the cheapest Macan. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 23:35:57 GMT
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Post by PG on Feb 16, 2019 11:02:22 GMT
Hopefully some pragmatic sense beginning to prevail - focus your resources on the core business and the big wins. Business school day 1..... |
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Post by Sav on Feb 26, 2019 22:35:12 GMT
Autocar going gooey over the revised XE. Autocar and Steve Cropley finely illustrate that magazines don't have much influence. If Autocar had any, JLR would be laughing all the way to the bank.
New XE, why aren't you buying one? Stupid you!
Just wait until the Defender is launched.....
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 27, 2019 9:53:37 GMT
Cropley always fawns over anything JLR-related.
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 27, 2019 10:00:46 GMT
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 27, 2019 10:03:22 GMT
I think Autocar has always trumpeted anything the British car industry does - probably no different to the French, German and Italian press with home grown product. I do think that some (many/all?) of the UK journalists are also keeping one eye on all the lovely free junkets they get from JLR, who would want to lose those freebies over a carelessly written piece? BIK taxation on these anyone?
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 27, 2019 10:23:47 GMT
Actually I've had another look and the interior (mainly the centre console) does look much-improved.
But I still cannot imagine wanting to spend £45k on a 2.0 4-cylinder Jaguar saloon, no matter how many horses or turbos it has been equipped with.
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Post by michael on Feb 27, 2019 17:22:35 GMT
I do think the XE looks a lot more fresh and youthful but it's a shame the interior hasn't had more work as it's likely this will be the extent of the update to the F-Pace interior, too.
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Post by chipbutty on Feb 28, 2019 10:06:59 GMT
It's a fairly substantial interior re-fit.
The entire door casing (below the door top roll) has been redesigned (very reminiscent of the I-Pace door casing design), the entire centre console and centre stack has been redesigned and the IP hood is redesigned and wrapped.
With the trim level re-alignment, you can now get the sports seats trimmed in soft grain leather (which has always been a bug bear of mine on all of the D7a cars).
XE has also picked up the duo pro system that I-Pace uses (which looks awesome) and ditched the cartoon type face dials buried in the grey plastic tubes for all variants (duo pro or not).
I've not had a poke around one yet, but on paper, they've kept the bits that were fine and replaced all of the bits that were below par.
Whether it's too little too late remains to be seen, but given I personally think the new 3 series interior looks rather cheap and the exterior looks daft with it's new corporate gonzo hooter, I therefore hope we pick up some more showroom traffic.
I'd love a P400 with the new straight six, but I can't imagine the investment would even remotely pay off given the tiny volumes.
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Post by michael on Feb 28, 2019 10:11:19 GMT
If the costs were equal I'd have the XE over the equivalent 3 or C class on looks alone. The problem is that of those cars I'd always choose the estate and so I wouldn't be troubling the Jaguar dealership in the first instance.
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Post by chipbutty on Feb 28, 2019 10:24:26 GMT
There has been reasonable spec re-alignment as well.
A base 330i M sport (258ps 4 pot) is £40,960
A base P250 R-dynamic S with metallic is £36,105 and that seems to come with all the stuff the BMW does (bodykit, 18s, car play, etc) and some stuff it doesn't (12 way electric seats, rear view camera). The pricing gap to BMW can be spent on upgrading to an SE or HSE, or picking the P300 which comes with standard AWD.
Of course, list prices are largely irrelevant given the customary big discounts on both brands as well as significant PCP and lease deal subvention, but XE looks to be on the right side of competitive.
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