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Post by michael on Jan 29, 2019 15:49:44 GMT
A friend is selling a car on Autotrader and has evidently had a call whereby the caller asked for some reference number from the V5 claiming it was needed for an HPI check. A few days later a DVLA letter arrives in the post informing her that she is no longer the registered owner of that vehicle and a call to the DVLA confirms she is no longer the registered owner.
Does anyone know what this scam is about? I can only assume it's something to do with taking out finance against the vehicle?
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 29, 2019 17:25:40 GMT
I think you can notify DVLA online of change of ownership, transfer of registration plate etc, so sounds like a good way of scamming someone out of their car. Maybe it's been cloned, maybe they will be after the keys next top "steal" a vehicle that according to DVLA they now own. Highly dodgy. I hope this occurrence has been reported to the Police
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 17:51:17 GMT
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Post by Blarno on Jan 29, 2019 18:36:21 GMT
Nice to see the DVLA online system is secure.
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Post by johnc on Jan 29, 2019 18:38:19 GMT
Last time I did an HPi check though you did need the long number from the V5, so I presume HPi will have had to change their procedures otherwise prospective buyers won't be able to check a car once sellers get wind of this.
Surely some Police involvement and an immediate kicking down of the door and they can catch some scammers. To get the finance they must have had to use an address and other information which makes them visible even for a short period of time.
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Post by grampa on Jan 29, 2019 19:54:31 GMT
You don't need the long reference number from the V5 for an HPI check - just the reg number does it. What's needed is more publicity from the DVLA not to give that number up any more than you would give your credit card details to anyone who asked for them. Good job the owner in question didn't have a valuable number plate - I guess that would be gone by now. Does anyone know what this scam is about? I can only assume it's something to do with taking out finance against the vehicle?
Any time I've taken out finance on a car, I haven't been required to provide any evidence of being the registered keeper. Perhaps planning to use the V5 they now have to obtain number plates in order to steal and disguise a matching car? Or worse (for her), they're planning on stealing her car? I would think the address the DVLA now has for the car is false - but they must have been to the address to get the V5. |
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Post by PG on Jan 29, 2019 21:43:45 GMT
Now that you don't have to send off the slip, the DVLA system sounds utterly stupid. Surely, both parties (buyer and seller) ought to be required to go online separately to make changes. Or the DVLA should require proof of purchase or that there is proof of the previous keeper's permission for the change. Crazy!
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 29, 2019 21:54:18 GMT
There does seem to be a flaw in the system.
You do only need the registration for HPI, but if you want the full HPI guarantee you need the logbook. I thought it was just the chassis number needed rather than the V5 ref number.
Logbook loans require the V5. They will come for the car if defaulted on too.
Hope she gets it sorted.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 30, 2019 8:16:47 GMT
Sounds someone is going to apply for an auto loan, using the car as collateral.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 11:36:42 GMT
There is one loophole that she can use, the lender HAS to be aware of the location of their client and PROVE it was your friend (OIC). DVLA do seem to have created a poor system though.
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Post by Tim on Jan 30, 2019 12:32:15 GMT
DVLA's system does have a check though - it's the letter that they send to you to let you know the title has changed.
It's worked in this case.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 30, 2019 13:33:22 GMT
DVLA's system does have a check though - it's the letter that they send to you to let you know the title has changed. It's worked in this case. That's not a check, it's a notification that the fraud has already taken place - it's too late, far too late |
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Post by Blarno on Jan 30, 2019 15:38:42 GMT
Made worse by the fact that the V5C does not prove ownership of, only responsibility for, the car.
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 1, 2019 14:01:11 GMT
I've just received an email purporting to be from the DVLA saying I'm owed a refund of vehicle tax. Please click on the link....... another scam to get either my bank details or car reg details or both.
Time to do a quick google for how to report a scam to DVLA
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Post by Roadsterstu on Feb 1, 2019 15:09:09 GMT
Made worse by the fact that the V5C does not prove ownership of, only responsibility for, the car. I was about to mention this when I read your comment. Michael, your friend needs to report this matter and also start keeping an eye on things like loan application letters, her credit rating for credit checks, etc. and report anything to the necessary organisations accordingly. I am sure this could become a massive inconvenience, I hope it is soon sorted out. |
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 1, 2019 18:48:10 GMT
^
Just had an unpleasant thought.... the vehicle tax now ceases with change of ownership so DVLA may now think your friend's car is untaxed, automatically voiding the insurance too IIRC. Any ANPR cameras that it passes may invoke a police chase with the car ending up being impounded as untaxed. Your friend needs to act PDQ
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 17:49:22 GMT
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 2, 2019 18:27:40 GMT
^
.. and you should get it too !
I seem to recall that when I changed the C-Max for the Kuga I got a cheque for under £2 back for the "unused" month
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 2, 2019 18:43:37 GMT
^ not worth the trip to the bank to deposit it. Anything less than a fiver they should just send to charity.
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 2, 2019 22:08:13 GMT
^
My local branch is between the car park I use and our local town centre so I often call in. Definitely not worth a special journey to pay it in, though !
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Post by Alex on Feb 3, 2019 10:57:50 GMT
^ not worth the trip to the bank to deposit it. Anything less than a fiver they should just send to charity. Yes but think of how many people are owed just a couple of quid and so don’t bother cashing the cheque. I can see the Daily Mail headline now... ”DVLA raking in millions in tax from unsuspecting motorists due refunds!” |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 3, 2019 11:39:33 GMT
^ not worth the trip to the bank to deposit it. Anything less than a fiver they should just send to charity. Yes but think of how many people are owed just a couple of quid and so don’t bother cashing the cheque. I can see the Daily Mail headline now... ”DVLA raking in millions in tax from unsuspecting motorists due refunds!” Put it into a fund to support people with life changing injuries through collisions with uninsured drivers. |
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Post by Alex on Feb 3, 2019 11:54:15 GMT
Yes but think of how many people are owed just a couple of quid and so don’t bother cashing the cheque. I can see the Daily Mail headline now... ”DVLA raking in millions in tax from unsuspecting motorists due refunds!” Put it into a fund to support people with life changing injuries through collisions with uninsured drivers. Government bodies aren’t supposed to give to charity though so I’m not sure they can do that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 15:17:31 GMT
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Post by Blarno on Feb 3, 2019 17:37:41 GMT
^ Just had an unpleasant thought.... the vehicle tax now ceases with change of ownership so DVLA may now think your friend's car is untaxed, automatically voiding the insurance too IIRC. Any ANPR cameras that it passes may invoke a police chase with the car ending up being impounded as untaxed. Your friend needs to act PDQ Not having tax doesn't void insurance. |
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 3, 2019 21:14:04 GMT
^
Doesn't that depend on the insurance co? Some state that as a condition of insurance you will ensure that the car is maintained properly with legal tyres, that you MoT it when required and keep it taxed. No doubt they would try to use lack of tax as an excuse not to pay out in event of an incident, but this may be deemed to be an "unrealistic" clause if it goes to court
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Post by michael on Feb 3, 2019 21:24:39 GMT
I suggested she park the car elsewhere to be on the safe side. I too wondered about the insurance implications. Fortunately they have another car so this one hasn’t been used since this all kicked off.
Apparently it was reported to the police who advised contacting the DVLA. The DVLA haven’t been particularly helpful by the sounds of things, to the point of telling her they couldn’t share details of who the owner was as it wasn’t her vehicle. You can appreciate why but it doesn’t much help matters.
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 3, 2019 22:00:01 GMT
I have always wondered why the V5 only names the registered keeper, rather than owner. I appreciate that probably the majority of cars these days are owned by entities rather than individuals, but surely adding another line to say who the keeper is shouldn't be too difficult? Either that, or a separate form to say who the owner is? Then again you then get into the realms of is it yours, or the finance company? Ah, problems problems!  |
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Post by Blarno on Feb 4, 2019 9:37:16 GMT
^ Doesn't that depend on the insurance co? Some state that as a condition of insurance you will ensure that the car is maintained properly with legal tyres, that you MoT it when required and keep it taxed. No doubt they would try to use lack of tax as an excuse not to pay out in event of an incident, but this may be deemed to be an "unrealistic" clause if it goes to court
I've never had that stipulation on any of my insurances, that I have noticed. You can't tax a car without valid insurance anyway, or an MOT. If the insurance company put that stipulation in place, then if you SORNed your car, it would effectively be uninsured.
I remember my first proper car, the Belmont, being insured and sat on my Mum's drive for about 2 months without any tax or MOT whilst I was away at uni and scrounging bits to get it through the MOT.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 4, 2019 10:25:24 GMT
In theory once the insurance company has accepted you on cover you are insured for the legal minimum (RTA) which is basically only third party liability, not fire, theft or comprehensive insurance, and the legal minimum that you are allowed to have and operate a vehicle on the road. This is independent of Road Tax. However, they may stipulate in their T&Cs that you must have valid tax for them to cover you for all the additional risks not covered under RTA and could decide not to pay out in the event it's out of date. I think LV stipulate this.
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