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Post by alf on Jun 28, 2017 9:10:02 GMT
The reason I fail to get emotional about whether people "accept" electric or not is that fossil fuel supply is finite - indeed very much towards the end of its life if you take a longer term view. So the alternatives are coming, like it or not.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 28, 2017 10:03:39 GMT
The reason I fail to get emotional about whether people "accept" electric or not is that fossil fuel supply is finite - indeed very much towards the end of its life if you take a longer term view. So the alternatives are coming, like it or not. Agreed. Actually, an electric car would suit me very well for most of my journeys but, it's the 10% of them for which it wouldn't be suitable which would make it pain. It wouldn't be much good towing or in the snow either so it would be an additional expense.
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Post by Tim on Jun 28, 2017 10:10:28 GMT
Don't forget the price issues currently as well. We saw a BMW i3 this morning and £25k (or whatever it is) for a supermini just makes no sense at all. Obviously I'm ignoring the fact that its hideous too
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 28, 2017 10:59:22 GMT
I'm all for electric options for short journeys and I'm glad to see the London ZipCar fleet is predominantly electric (Golfs). I was also mightily disappointed to see the new Alpina B5 was 4WD but instead of having the front wheels powered by in-hub electric motors which could be used in town it stuck with V8-only power (I'll stress I'm not disappointed with that part on its own ). I have this argument over the Zero TT every year with luddites that don't see it as a "proper TT" compared to the Senior, Supersport, Superbike ones. I then argue that their arguments means that any 2-stroke TTs of the past should be struck from the record books as they are no longer permitted (this is principally in the argument over whether Big John McPint is more of a TT legend than Joey Dunlop and generally ends with me stating that Big John has won more Seniors so regardless of whether he has wins on the zero bike he has the most of the one that the week is all about) and cause all kinds of screaming fits.
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Post by PG on Jun 28, 2017 11:44:39 GMT
In these cases everyone is right and wrong. It just depends on where you are standing, how long your time horizon is. Alternative fuels or methods of propulsion need to come for a whole host of reasons. Batteries may well be dirty to make, but I am sure that recycling and manufacturing changes will reduce their lifetime pollution impact. Or something else may come up on the rails and make them obsolete themselves. What annoys me is when people confuse a fuel and an energy source - especially ministers, civil servants and pressure groups. A fuel is something you can get, process and use - wood, coal, oil, gas. The nergy used in processing it leaves energy still for you to use. Whereas an energy source is just that - a source of energy that may itself have to be created from a fuel. For example, when people say that hydrogen "is the fuel of the future" - no it's not. You can't go and get some hydrogen - you have to make it using another energy source of fuel. But nobody needs get too upset - album upload
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Post by michael on Jun 28, 2017 11:53:55 GMT
But nobody needs get too upset Quite right. Most of us here are able to respect that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 13:26:06 GMT
The 'most' is a dig at Chris though, which isn't helpful in letting the dust settle. We've lost Phil, we seem to have lost Nick and I think we're losing Chris. I think that would be a pity, and losing long-standing members is an unhealthy direction for the forum to be heading in.
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Post by michael on Jun 28, 2017 13:35:32 GMT
The 'most' is accurate in my statement. That is, most seem to be able to respect the differing views of others.
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Post by Blarno on Jun 28, 2017 14:26:03 GMT
Chris is a big boy, he can take it I'm sure. I've made a living out of being obstreporous and have garnered a lovely thick skin for it.
If you feel someone is being a dick, call them out on it. I see no issue.
I wouldn't dream of walking away from here after disagreeing with someone, or I'd have gone a long time ago.
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Post by michael on Jun 28, 2017 15:03:22 GMT
a lovely thick skin for it. Damn your thick skin.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 28, 2017 17:04:29 GMT
The 'most' is a dig at Chris though, which isn't helpful in letting the dust settle. We've lost Phil, we seem to have lost Nick and I think we're losing Chris. I think that would be a pity, and losing long-standing members is an unhealthy direction for the forum to be heading in. I would respectfully agree with Blarno. If anyone chooses not to post due to other members being on here then that is their issue. I don't know why Phil is choosing not to join in, but that is his choice. I miss his humour, but if he doesn't want to then so be it. Nick, according to Andy, has an issue with the Captcha verification to stop spambots as well as being busy with his new music production venture. Again, I miss his posts, but life goes on and people's priorities change. He was AWOL on the old forum well before we moved over here.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 28, 2017 19:35:49 GMT
If you feel someone is being a dick, call them out on it. I see no issue. Exactly, that's why having watched the bullshit-o-meter smash its way off the scale, wrote my piece - a little surprised by the prissy little school girl back chat, to be honest I didn't realise some people were so easy to offend. You live and learn, I guess. I'm not offended, I just won't be patronised to and there is only one person being a dick here.
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Post by michael on Jun 28, 2017 19:37:45 GMT
I'm not offended, I just won't be patronised and there is only one person being a dick here. Yes, but at least I'm consistent.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 28, 2017 19:47:41 GMT
I'm not offended, I just won't be patronised to and there is only one person being a dick here. That level of confidence is probably a great deal of help to you, necessary even 😂🤣 I actually pity your need to feel so superior to absolutely everyone. I am sure you have plenty more delusional one liners to hand so you may as well keep them coming.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 28, 2017 22:39:29 GMT
The reason I fail to get emotional about whether people "accept" electric or not is that fossil fuel supply is finite - indeed very much towards the end of its life if you take a longer term view. So the alternatives are coming, like it or not. Actually it's not. We're in an early of energy abundance and finding more and more fossil fuels. No one talks of 'peak oil' anymore. Oil and gas will be around for another 100 years at least,particularly as renewables lengthen the tail. No one is going to have a V8 in their garage with no fuel for it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 8:08:20 GMT
How dare you take it back on topic.
I fear we've lost more than just membership in the recent move, which is a shame.
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Post by michael on Jun 29, 2017 8:14:03 GMT
Well do something positive about it. Start new threads, talk about cars etc.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 29, 2017 11:29:28 GMT
If there is feedback to make positive or negative or a suggestion, put it in the feedback topic and stop being cryptic.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 12:29:30 GMT
Lawks, I can tell the place is 'yours' now. Nothing to do with how you've implemented it - it just feels like the atmosphere has changed lately.
But don't tell me what to do, please.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 29, 2017 12:43:55 GMT
I thought it was a reasonable request - I'm a spade is a spade sort of guy and don't do cryptic. Sorry if I offended you, but there was no intention. I would say the same to you in person.
If there is something wrong then I would like to know about it. 🙂
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 29, 2017 13:08:13 GMT
Well this thread has probably taught us that the issues of "tone" in written posts are sadly lacking compared to written communication; that the march of technology has the ability to cause a row, that one person's "bad" is another person's "not-bad" and that generalisations need not be taken by heart at an individual level. In fact all these things are what relationship management looks at and fair play to us all we openly talk about them, voice our opinions of comments by others and (largely) accept the returning comments. Whilst one or two of us feel a bit peeved occasionally this is actually very healthy behaviour: we've probably "known" one another long enough to know what each one of us is like. We're not of one universal political or idealogical persuasion so stuff like this thread happens; rather like the years of raging arguments my hippy cousin had with her right wing old-skool (sic) father culminating in her being a very happy adult that loves her dad immensely. We'll all get over ourselves.
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Post by michael on Jun 29, 2017 13:25:45 GMT
Lawks, I can tell the place is 'yours' now. Nothing to do with how you've implemented it - it just feels like the atmosphere has changed lately. But don't tell me what to do, please. It was a suggestion rather than instruction. I think the cryptic comment is to do with your unsubstantiated statements along the lines of things have changed but not saying how or saying your worried people are going to go but not offering who or why. My own take is we're talking increasingly about divisive issues like politics and less about subjects that we tend to share a common interest in such as cars.
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Post by PG on Jun 29, 2017 15:09:56 GMT
We've always managed to discuss what can be divisive subjects in an adult fashion (well, maybe except fox hunting....) but at the moment, the world in general seems a bit febrile and angry. So if we all just take a "chill pill" (I am so down with the kids these days) we'll be fine. Or as was said to me by a friend the other day, we all just need to CTFD.
This place is where I come for entertainment and intelligent discourse with a level of maturity (tinged with a superb level of blokey sarcasm of course) that makes it all fine. Let's keep it that way. It I want to see grown men arguing I can just go to the office any day.
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Post by Boxer6 on Jun 29, 2017 16:19:09 GMT
We've always managed to discuss what can be divisive subjects in an adult fashion (well, maybe except fox hunting....) but at the moment, the world in general seems a bit febrile and angry. So if we all just take a "chill pill" (I am so down with the kids these days) we'll be fine. Or as was said to me by a friend the other day, we all just need to CTFD. This place is where I come for entertainment and intelligent discourse with a level of maturity (tinged with a superb level of blokey sarcasm of course) that makes it all fine. Let's keep it that way. It I want to see grown men arguing I can just go to the office any day. +1. Apart from the office bit - it's mostly women in there . . . .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 8:05:53 GMT
I thought it was a reasonable request - I'm a spade is a spade sort of guy and don't do cryptic. Sorry if I offended you, but there was no intention. I would say the same to you in person. If there is something wrong then I would like to know about it. 🙂
I can see why you thought I might have been having a pop at the forum, but that's not the case. I hope what I've said in the relevant places, and that I'd kick-started the notion that members should be funding the forum, shows that what you've set up is pretty much ideal, and far better than I'd have been able to do.
I've been a bit vague, but that's because I know why some people have ceased to post or are considering/have considered doing so - but it's not my place to repeat what was said to me outside of open forum - I'd hope that's understandable. All I've been trying to do, prior to my little snap just then, is keep the peace and stop numbers falling. Maybe it's not my place to do so.
Staggered though I am to see that Michael and I agree about anything at the moment (!), keeping politics separate (and therefore something that has to be opted-into) is probably a good idea.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 30, 2017 8:35:31 GMT
I thought it was a reasonable request - I'm a spade is a spade sort of guy and don't do cryptic. Sorry if I offended you, but there was no intention. I would say the same to you in person. If there is something wrong then I would like to know about it. 🙂
I can see why you thought I might have been having a pop at the forum, but that's not the case. I hope what I've said in the relevant places, and that I'd kick-started the notion that members should be funding the forum, shows that what you've set up is pretty much ideal, and far better than I'd have been able to do.
I've been a bit vague, but that's because I know why some people have ceased to post or are considering/have considered doing so - but it's not my place to repeat what was said to me outside of open forum - I'd hope that's understandable. All I've been trying to do, prior to my little snap just then, is keep the peace and stop numbers falling. Maybe it's not my place to do so.
Staggered though I am to see that Michael and I agree about anything at the moment (!), keeping politics separate (and therefore something that has to be opted-into) is probably a good idea.
That's fair enough, thanks for the response.
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Post by michael on Jun 30, 2017 9:12:05 GMT
I've been a bit vague, but that's because I know why some people have ceased to post or are considering/have considered doing so - but it's not my place to repeat what was said to me outside of open forum - I'd hope that's understandable. All I've been trying to do, prior to my little snap just then, is keep the peace and stop numbers falling. Maybe it's not my place to do so.
Staggered though I am to see that Michael and I agree about anything at the moment (!), keeping politics separate (and therefore something that has to be opted-into) is probably a good idea.
By being vague but naming names you've kind of dropped some right in it. You mentioned Phil, he logs in every day so hasn't gone but doesn't post. That's his call (hi Phil) but you leave people to draw their own conclusions. As for agreeing with me, it's a slippery slope but you might like it - I'll introduce you to Olaf later.
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Post by PG on Jun 30, 2017 9:51:15 GMT
I've been a bit vague, but that's because I know why some people have ceased to post or are considering/have considered doing so - but it's not my place to repeat what was said to me outside of open forum - I'd hope that's understandable. All I've been trying to do, prior to my little snap just then, is keep the peace and stop numbers falling. Maybe it's not my place to do so.
Staggered though I am to see that Michael and I agree about anything at the moment (!), keeping politics separate (and therefore something that has to be opted-into) is probably a good idea.
By being vague but naming names you've kind of dropped some right in it. You mentioned Phil, he logs in every day so hasn't gone but doesn't post. That's his call (hi Phil) but you leave people to draw their own conclusions. As for agreeing with me, it's a slippery slope but you might like it - I'll introduce you to Olaf later. It is a cliche, but like all cliches they are grounded in truth. There is more that we agree on than that divides us. Right, I'm off to throw up after quoting a cliche as important......
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 11:08:35 GMT
I've been a bit vague, but that's because I know why some people have ceased to post or are considering/have considered doing so - but it's not my place to repeat what was said to me outside of open forum - I'd hope that's understandable. All I've been trying to do, prior to my little snap just then, is keep the peace and stop numbers falling. Maybe it's not my place to do so.
Staggered though I am to see that Michael and I agree about anything at the moment (!), keeping politics separate (and therefore something that has to be opted-into) is probably a good idea.
By being vague but naming names you've kind of dropped some right in it. You mentioned Phil, he logs in every day so hasn't gone but doesn't post. That's his call (hi Phil) but you leave people to draw their own conclusions. As for agreeing with me, it's a slippery slope but you might like it - I'll introduce you to Olaf later. I don't think so. - everyone can see he's not posting. I know why, but it's not my place to say. Drawing conclusions is not a good idea.
Olaf isn't code for Alan, is it?
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Post by Big Blue on Jun 30, 2017 12:48:15 GMT
Alan: how we miss him. Every gang needs a whipping boy.
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