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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 11:43:16 GMT
I was hoping the limpdampwets would grow some sense and become the main opposition, I still hope that happens. I agree that the laboured partly need a bit more kicking yet until they get the message that pointless posturing and bragging about record spending etc as a method of bribing the electorate into power is out of order. The hard left of politics is irrelevant now.
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Post by johnc on Dec 16, 2019 14:50:46 GMT
But how are the Labour party ever going to get a leader and policies which are acceptable to the majority of the country when their leader (and his/her policies) are determined by the members of the party and the Unions who by their membership, are much more likely to be at the left of the party? Their change of voting structure for the leader has effectively neutered them.
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Post by michael on Dec 16, 2019 15:44:06 GMT
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 16, 2019 19:53:25 GMT
Ahh...a Tory government not yet a week old and already the scent of favours and vested interests is wafting in the winter air...
I see that Nicky Morgan is being elevated to the Lords and staying on as a member of the Cabinet despite standing down as an MP.
Explains how a vociferous Tory Remainer suddenly converted to being on-message with "Get Brexit Done"...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 20:50:06 GMT
I doubt that sort of thing is news, they are still self serving little, sods.
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 16, 2019 22:47:52 GMT
Ahh...a Tory government not yet a week old and already the scent of favours and vested interests is wafting in the winter air... I see that Nicky Morgan is being elevated to the Lords and staying on as a member of the Cabinet despite standing down as an MP. Explains how a vociferous Tory Remainer suddenly converted to being on-message with "Get Brexit Done"... I see the same outcome is likely for that plonker goldsmith
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Post by michael on Dec 17, 2019 9:35:01 GMT
Ahh...a Tory government not yet a week old and already the scent of favours and vested interests is wafting in the winter air... I see that Nicky Morgan is being elevated to the Lords and staying on as a member of the Cabinet despite standing down as an MP. Explains how a vociferous Tory Remainer suddenly converted to being on-message with "Get Brexit Done"... This has never happened before?
Apart from Mandelson, Falconer, Adonis, Amos, Vadera, Malloch-Brown, Goldsmith, Warsi, Scotland...
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 17, 2019 11:53:19 GMT
He's right, you know.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 17, 2019 11:55:17 GMT
Ahh...a Tory government not yet a week old and already the scent of favours and vested interests is wafting in the winter air... I see that Nicky Morgan is being elevated to the Lords and staying on as a member of the Cabinet despite standing down as an MP. Explains how a vociferous Tory Remainer suddenly converted to being on-message with "Get Brexit Done"... This has never happened before?
Apart from Mandelson, Falconer, Adonis, Amos, Vadera, Malloch-Brown, Goldsmith, Warsi, Scotland...
Never said it hadn't. Rather speaks to paucity of talent in the Tory ranks though...
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 17, 2019 13:52:08 GMT
Changing topic (if not subject), I see the pound and markets have reacted negatively to Mr Johnson's announcement that he will seek to pass legislation ruling out any further extension.
I hope we aren't in for a re-run of Cameron-style hubris (in other words that Johnson, flush with election success, overestimates his ability to cut a deal in the next 12 months).
I get the negotiating tactic. But there are two risks:
(a) if you aren't a hard-line Brexit-ultra, then it's an alarming all-or-nothing game of chicken, with WTO purdah waiting for us if Johnson fails to agree a deal; and
(b) if you are a hard-line Brexit-ultra, then there's a very alarming risk that Johnson comes back with a very watery version of BRINO indeed (still in single market, still paying in and still subject to freedom of movement) and proceeds to ram it through a terrified Parliament.
Personally, on the available information, I suspect some variant of the second of these two eventualities is the more likely.
Which will enable Johnson to crow that he has "Got Brexit Done" but in reality he will have done nothing other than paint stripes on a donkey and call it a zebra. Which when the dust settles, looks to risk pleasing no-one unless Johnson is betting that the majority of the population doesn't grasp the fine detail and won't notice to subterfuge.
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Post by Tim on Dec 17, 2019 14:00:01 GMT
I like your optimism.
Perhaps Boris has enjoyed spending time with the Brexit ultras and has a recurring weekend invite to Mogg towers?
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Post by johnc on Dec 17, 2019 14:19:42 GMT
I agree with Racing that the kind of Brexit we end up with will not be the hard line version because the financial implications would simply be too damaging (and Boris knows it). I haven't heard a single credible reason for wanting Brexit (other than I just want out) but I do understand some of sentiment about there being too many people coming in to the country who then set up what is basically a foreign ghetto where the locals feel they are being pushed out or disadvantaged.
There is an awful lot of work to be done to repair all the bridges that have been broken over the past 3 years or more.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 17, 2019 14:30:34 GMT
I agree with Racing that the kind of Brexit we end up with will not be the hard line version because the financial implications would simply be too damaging (and Boris knows it). I haven't heard a single credible reason for wanting Brexit (other than I just want out) but I do understand some of sentiment about there being too many people coming in to the country who then set up what is basically a foreign ghetto where the locals feel they are being pushed out or disadvantaged. There is an awful lot of work to be done to repair all the bridges that have been broken over the past 3 years or more. And what better man to mend them that the man who helped lay the explosive charges under them in the first place...
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Post by Roadsterstu on Dec 17, 2019 15:12:11 GMT
Ahh...a Tory government not yet a week old and already the scent of favours and vested interests is wafting in the winter air... I see that Nicky Morgan is being elevated to the Lords and staying on as a member of the Cabinet despite standing down as an MP. Explains how a vociferous Tory Remainer suddenly converted to being on-message with "Get Brexit Done"... This has never happened before?
Apart from Mandelson, Falconer, Adonis, Amos, Vadera, Malloch-Brown, Goldsmith, Warsi, Scotland...
Indeed. Self serving. Still not learned the lessons. And they are ALL the same.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Dec 17, 2019 15:14:22 GMT
I agree with Racing that the kind of Brexit we end up with will not be the hard line version because the financial implications would simply be too damaging (and Boris knows it). I haven't heard a single credible reason for wanting Brexit (other than I just want out) but I do understand some of sentiment about there being too many people coming in to the country who then set up what is basically a foreign ghetto where the locals feel they are being pushed out or disadvantaged. There is an awful lot of work to be done to repair all the bridges that have been broken over the past 3 years or more. Many of the bridges were broken long before that. It's taken years to get to the point whereby so many people wanted out. Clearly a balance hadn't been struck and that annoyed a lot of people. It's festered, and was ignored, for a long time.
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Post by michael on Dec 17, 2019 15:29:29 GMT
This has never happened before?
Apart from Mandelson, Falconer, Adonis, Amos, Vadera, Malloch-Brown, Goldsmith, Warsi, Scotland...
Indeed. Self serving. Still not learned the lessons. And they are ALL the same. Don't be so daft. Were I to say coppers are ALL (capitalised for effect, there) the same and reference some action I hadn't approved of you'd rightly be spitting feathers.
Most politicians I've spoken to are there to make a difference for their communities and care about the job in hand. Nicky Morgan is a highly capable individual, if the only compliant is that she can serve from the Lords then you've not got much to complain about.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 17, 2019 16:23:53 GMT
Indeed. Self serving. Still not learned the lessons. And they are ALL the same. Don't be so daft. Were I to say coppers are ALL (capitalised for effect, there) the same and reference some action I hadn't approved of you'd rightly be spitting feathers.
Most politicians I've spoken to are there to make a difference for their communities and care about the job in hand. Nicky Morgan is a highly capable individual, if the only compliant is that she can serve from the Lords then you've not got much to complain about.
Well indeed...I'd say she's highly compliant individual...otherwise she wouldn't have been elevated.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 17, 2019 16:29:23 GMT
Don't be so daft. Were I to say coppers are ALL (capitalised for effect, there) the same and reference some action I hadn't approved of you'd rightly be spitting feathers.
Most politicians I've spoken to are there to make a difference for their communities and care about the job in hand. Nicky Morgan is a highly capable individual, if the only compliant is that she can serve from the Lords then you've not got much to complain about.
Well indeed...I'd say she's highly compliant individual...otherwise she wouldn't have been elevated. It's a bit off in 2019 to suggest she'd trade sexual favours for career progression.
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Post by michael on Dec 17, 2019 16:40:09 GMT
Don't be so daft. Were I to say coppers are ALL (capitalised for effect, there) the same and reference some action I hadn't approved of you'd rightly be spitting feathers.
Most politicians I've spoken to are there to make a difference for their communities and care about the job in hand. Nicky Morgan is a highly capable individual, if the only compliant is that she can serve from the Lords then you've not got much to complain about.
Well indeed...I'd say she's highly compliant individual...otherwise she wouldn't have been elevated. Ha! Complaint.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 17, 2019 19:00:56 GMT
Well indeed...I'd say she's highly compliant individual...otherwise she wouldn't have been elevated. It's a bit off in 2019 to suggest she'd trade sexual favours for career progression. Indeed it would be had that been what I was suggesting! Alas I was "merely" inferring that her principles were lax in other less carnal ways.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 17, 2019 19:29:03 GMT
It's a bit off in 2019 to suggest she'd trade sexual favours for career progression. Indeed it would be had that been what I was suggesting! Alas I was "merely" inferring that her principles were lax in other less carnal ways. I thought you were using “lawyerspeak”.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Dec 18, 2019 11:24:10 GMT
Indeed. Self serving. Still not learned the lessons. And they are ALL the same. Don't be so daft. Were I to say coppers are ALL (capitalised for effect, there) the same and reference some action I hadn't approved of you'd rightly be spitting feathers.
Most politicians I've spoken to are there to make a difference for their communities and care about the job in hand. Nicky Morgan is a highly capable individual, if the only compliant is that she can serve from the Lords then you've not got much to complain about.
Fair enough, it was a brief but ranty post. No, clearly not ALL the same but it really shouldn't be a surprise that a lot of people will see them as such. There's a lot of trust to rebuild.
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Post by Alex on Dec 18, 2019 17:17:35 GMT
Actually I’d rather there was a strong opposition party keeping the Government honest myself. This is the opportunity for the Lib Dems and they really need to seize it. From what I'm seeing on the Labour channels they've already started eating themselves so I don't think there is going to be any strength from them for a while. Easier said than done when they barely have enough MP’s to fill a black cab. I think Boris’s premiership will be much lefter leaning and almost heading towards the New Labour way of running the country. Boris is actually quite pro immigration (albeit controlled), for example, whereas the nasty policy of Theresa May’s hostile environment was the sort of right leaning policy that appealed to UKIP voters. So I think the Tories will hoover up more of the Lib Dem voters in 5 years time if they don’t have a credible leader.
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Post by michael on Dec 18, 2019 19:10:27 GMT
whereas the nasty policy of Theresa May’s hostile environment was the sort of right leaning policy that appealed to UKIP voters. So I think the Tories will hoover up more of the Lib Dem voters in 5 years time if they don’t have a credible leader. Jack Straw was the first to coin the term hostile environment. Labour.
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Post by johnc on Dec 19, 2019 11:22:12 GMT
whereas the nasty policy of Theresa May’s hostile environment was the sort of right leaning policy that appealed to UKIP voters. So I think the Tories will hoover up more of the Lib Dem voters in 5 years time if they don’t have a credible leader. With only 11 MP's or thereabouts it is hard to see how the LibDems are going to be able to put up any credible fight or find a populist leader. Maybe they need to do what the Greens do and have a leader who is not an MP.
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 19, 2019 11:35:49 GMT
I see our recently unemployed ex Labour MP was in the Guardian blaming the media. She did concede that there was a lot of hatred towards JC. She can't accept that they need to change policy, it seems.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 19, 2019 11:48:08 GMT
I see our recently unemployed ex Labour MP was in the Guardian blaming the media. She did concede that there was a lot of hatred towards JC. She can't accept that they need to change policy, it seems. Yes, it's looking like Boris will be re-elected in 2024 with a landslide.
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Post by michael on Dec 19, 2019 11:55:27 GMT
With only 11 MP's or thereabouts it is hard to see how the LibDems are going to be able to put up any credible fight or find a populist leader. Maybe they need to do what the Greens do and have a leader who is not an MP. There's lots they can do by getting on committees, amendments and basically being as visible as possible. In doing so they have to assess what their values are and ensure they respect both leave and remain. There's a lot of work for them to do but Labour are busy infighting and will be for the foreseeable, they have an opportunity and should seize it.
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Post by Tim on Dec 19, 2019 12:21:55 GMT
I see our recently unemployed ex Labour MP was in the Guardian blaming the media. She did concede that there was a lot of hatred towards JC. She can't accept that they need to change policy, it seems. It was funny to hear them having a real go at the BBC in particular earlier in the week - that's usually the preserve of the Tories!!
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 22, 2019 21:06:44 GMT
Shockers the lot of them. Not proud of my country at the moment. Certainly I despise its government. Bunch of absolute tools.
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