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Post by Roadrunner on Jun 9, 2017 13:16:08 GMT
Ruth Davidson is the only senior Tory who seems to be able to win at the moment. I know she is riding on tide of anti Indyref 2 sentiment, but I think she stands a better chance of connecting with the younger voters than any other senior Tory.
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Post by Tim on Jun 9, 2017 13:21:05 GMT
I saw a comment on the Beeb website that she may be a possibility for becoming a future leader but I struggle to see how her success up here would translate even to the more traditional elements of the Tories let alone the wider populace. Mind you she could do it by threat - during the debates before one of the last elections (I really can't remember which one!) she got a bit hot under the collar at Jim Murphy the Scottish Labour leader at the time and I felt that if there was a fight she would've come out significantly on top
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 9, 2017 13:36:41 GMT
I could pay to watch Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson mud-wrestling in a Highland peat bog...
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Post by alf on Jun 9, 2017 13:46:33 GMT
I can't keep up. We've gone from "the Conservatives will never win a majority again" to their suprise one last time, then "the death of Labour" as they were too left wing - the supposed lesson of 2015. Then it was all about Brexit and that apparently was another reason Labour were dead. Now they've gone incredibly left wing with a top team with zero government experience (some might argue many have never had a proper job...) and minimal credence in many cases and yet have upped their vote share by 10% from last time. And 2017 was supposed to be quite a lot about the anti-Brexit protest vote, the only anti Brexit party of any size has taken 7% of the vote.
I really don't know what to think, except that I think the UK is in for a hard time of it (unless the EU offer us a wonderful low payment/no freedom of movement/free trade Brexit - highly unlikely). And part of me wanted to see Corbyn in power to see exactly how they plan to pay for all these incredibly optimistically costed policies (many of which are universal benefits, to which I am morally opposed - going to the expense of collecting tax and paying it back to rich people, or those who will become rich after their degree is senseless). Not to mention the totally uncosted ones like nationalisation.
Now the spotlight is firmly on the Conservatives - how will they improve if the public will accept any level of spending pledges from the competition, especially now the young are mobilised?
We generally do not like whoever is in charge, probably because there are no easy answers when it comes to paying for education, healthcare, social care for an ageing population, and so on. That feeling of "whoever you vote for you get the government" exists because there is limited leeway for anyone to act, and when changing anything, however valid it might seem (like taking winter fuel payments away from wealthy pensioners, or sorting out our boundaries) it is easy to mobilise support against it.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 9, 2017 14:09:13 GMT
Won't May's minority government now just be obstructed in everything they do by the opposition?
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Post by Tim on Jun 9, 2017 14:20:13 GMT
Won't May's minority government now just be obstructed in everything they do by the opposition? They'll be ok if they form a strong coalition with the DUP although who knows what concessions will be required to get that.
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Post by johnc on Jun 9, 2017 15:37:13 GMT
But she will only have a majority of 2 with the DUP so no sickies will be allowed
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Post by Tim on Jun 9, 2017 15:45:15 GMT
At least it will provide certainty. Apparently It's a monumental fuckup. They must be really kicking themselves VERY hard.
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Post by scouse on Jun 9, 2017 15:48:04 GMT
But she will only have a majority of 2 with the DUP so no sickies will be allowed I think a lot of it will depend on what happens with the remnants of UKIP. They had a very effective campaign in the run up to both the previous GE and the referendum and could run interference campaigns on seats that had voted for brexit regardless of which party holds the seat. After their latest shambles though, that's a big if.
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Post by PG on Jun 9, 2017 16:55:47 GMT
But she will only have a majority of 2 with the DUP so no sickies will be allowed I think it's higher as the Sinn Fein MP's don't turn up - and have said that they will continue to be absent. But it's still hardly a working majority is it. And the DUP are pretty off the scale on quite a lot of stuff - gay marriage, abortion etc. But then from the number of seats, Labour (261) + Lib Dems (12) + SNP (35) don't have a majority either (and that's never last as a grouping). Perhaps we'll have a position where no laws can get passed. Now that would be great - we could all just carry on and function without them.
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Post by johnc on Jun 10, 2017 7:32:16 GMT
we could all just carry on and function without them. and do a damn site better as a consequence
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Post by scouse on Jun 10, 2017 23:34:13 GMT
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 11, 2017 9:21:44 GMT
I've just joined the Conservatives after reading the headlines this morning. The last thing we need is Boris as leader!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 10:17:18 GMT
I think Boris as leader is already a done deal, he was a leave promoter after all. Who else would be able to stand? Realistically?
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Post by PG on Jun 11, 2017 12:30:20 GMT
Can anyone explain to me what is the issue with BoJo? He's clearly an intelligent bloke, was good as mayor of London (delivering the Olympics on time and successfully) and he's one of the few Conservative politicians (maybe the only one) who can interest voters from other parties.
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Post by michael on Jun 11, 2017 14:05:44 GMT
I've just joined the Conservatives after reading the headlines this morning. The last thing we need is Boris as leader! I think you need to have been a member three months before you're able to vote.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 11, 2017 15:17:45 GMT
I've just joined the Conservatives after reading the headlines this morning. The last thing we need is Boris as leader! I think you need to have been a member three months before you're able to vote. Indeed, I'm hoping nothing happens before then!
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Post by michael on Jun 11, 2017 15:45:15 GMT
We could go canvassing together!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 17:24:09 GMT
The tories need more than canvassing, they managed to shoot themselves in the foot with talk about the social policies etc. What is the chance that, with the gun aimed at their other foot, what is the chance they will find an empty chamber?
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Post by michael on Jun 11, 2017 18:42:50 GMT
The tories need more than canvassing, they managed to shoot themselves in the foot with talk about the social policies etc. What is the chance that, with the gun aimed at their other foot, what is the chance they will find an empty chamber? Oh really? Damn, I was pretty sure Mark and I could together win over the nation with my smile and his charm.
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Post by LandieMark on Jun 11, 2017 19:57:23 GMT
The tories need more than canvassing, they managed to shoot themselves in the foot with talk about the social policies etc. What is the chance that, with the gun aimed at their other foot, what is the chance they will find an empty chamber? Oh really? Damn, I was pretty sure Mark and I could together win over the nation with my smile and his charm. 😂🤣
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Post by michael on Jun 11, 2017 20:34:27 GMT
Of course when I say smile I mean lies and charm I mean money.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 11, 2017 22:14:22 GMT
The one who must be really kicking himself at this point is George Osborne. It must have seemed such a good idea at the time resigning his seat to rake in the millions and become editor of the Evening Standard. Were he still an MP at this point, he'd surely be a leading contender to replace May as PM...
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Post by PG on Jun 12, 2017 5:50:25 GMT
The one who must be really kicking himself at this point is George Osborne. It must have seemed such a good idea at the time resigning his seat to rake in the millions and become editor of the Evening Standard. Were he still an MP at this point, he'd surely be a leading contender to replace May as PM... Well we must be thankful for small mercies then.......
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Post by PG on Jun 12, 2017 5:55:48 GMT
Can anyone explain to me what is the issue with BoJo? He's clearly an intelligent bloke, was good as mayor of London (delivering the Olympics on time and successfully) and he's one of the few Conservative politicians (maybe the only one) who can interest voters from other parties. He's a chancer He's a gob-shite He doesn't appear to have principles He fought for Brexit in order to take leadership of the party He's a bullshitter He was even kicked out of journalism for lying I could go on. Based on that, he seems brllliantly qualified to do the job then.... he can't be any worse than the past lot - a sociopath / psychopath (Blair); a one eyes Scottish idiot (Brown); a PR schmoozer (Cameron) and a headmistress with no charisma (May).
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Post by johnc on Jun 12, 2017 7:08:16 GMT
What scares me is the possibility of Corbyn being voted in to power by young people with absolutely no knowledge or recollection of the damage the loony left policies of Labour did to the UK in the 70's - it was entirely due to those policies, the bankrupting of the nation and the massive move out of the UK by those with wealth that lead Margaret Thatcher into power. We had a chat one lunchtime in the office and the younger staff didn't believe it was possible that all electricity went off at 6pm in the middle of winter, there was no TV some days, there were no trains other days, no buses the next, the post wasn't delivered, you couldn't get petrol and the supermarkets had no food because of driver's strikes etc etc. If it happened today, there would be no internet to add real bite for the younger voters.
I am also concerned at the complete ineptitude of the Conservatives on so many fronts.
Basically we have a crock of shit and have to choose the one that stinks the least.
....and across the Atlantic, their leader is having a teenage strop because not everyone likes him!
We have certainly filled all our positions of power with the cream....of the dregs.
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Post by michael on Jun 12, 2017 7:52:02 GMT
What scares me is the possibility of Corbyn
This worried me. He'd destroy the economy but he's a massive security risk with his views on trident and general disdain for the military. Given the Conservatives won and won with an increased share of the vote, despite the atrocious campaign, despite Brexit and despite the youth vote being bribed with freebies then this is something to be thankful for. There has to be a Conservative leadership challenge soon but I think they'll try to keep an election off the cards as long as possible to get through Brexit. They'll also hope Corbyn will stand down and be replaced by the likes of Rebecca Long Bailey who I would think people would more readily identify with as a cretin. For all the issues with a hung parliament I don't think there is any risk that Labour would be able to take it at this stage as I think some of their more principled MPs would resign the whip if it looked like Corbyn getting in.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 12, 2017 8:18:09 GMT
"Basically we have a crock of shit and have to choose the one that stinks the least."
John sums up British politics perfectly there.
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Post by grampa on Jun 12, 2017 8:50:47 GMT
What scares me is the possibility of Corbyn being voted in to power by young people with absolutely no knowledge or recollection of the damage the loony left policies of Labour did to the UK in the 70's - it was entirely due to those policies, the bankrupting of the nation and the massive move out of the UK by those with wealth that lead Margaret Thatcher into power. Should be easy to avoid, if only the Tories could come up with somebody decent. Ah... How much do we know of Ruth Davidson? - from the little I know about her, I would quite like to see her step up to the plate - anyone with any more insight? Whoever takes over as leader though, it won't solve the problem of being a minority or a more or less unworkable majority even with the dodgy coalition.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 9:25:14 GMT
What is so wonderful about Trident? The yanks control the weapons, they store the weapons and they service the weapons. Bugger, that worked out well then. We cannot even fire the weapons that are at sea independently and even if we could, who would we be in a position to fire them at? Trident is a white elephant at best and a waste of money at a realistic level. Why spend so much money on weapons we have so little use for? Why NOT spend the money on conventional weapons that we can use and have a need for?
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