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Post by alf on Apr 9, 2018 11:49:33 GMT
Having had a poke about looking at SH 340i and 440iGC, new RS3's and S5's, Alfa Guilia Veloce's, and so on, the only real contender I have vs either keeping my car longer or getting another XFR of about 2014 vintage is the XE S. It's not a car that has come up in the mags often - it achieved what at the time seemed near impossible in knocking the 335i off the top of the podium in both UK and US reviews, then has barely featured when things like the 340i, C43, and S5 are being reviewed, much to my annoyance as this is the most relevant class of car to me, I'm currently in something a class up from what I envisage being able to afford ongoing, mainly as the XFR is such excellent value to buy and (to a lesser extent given fuel and tax) run compared to the German equivalents. Having said that, it has held its value fairly well - at least as well as a 340i - so is cheaper than an XFR because it started cheaper, but it was a £47k car originally so it's no total bargain. It's a very ALF car in that is has an excellent supple ride suited to UK conditions, its a better size for me (I don't mind the XFR's size but the XE definitely shrinks around you better and feels a bit more nimble and naughty as a result), and yet its still very refined and comfortable. I love the Jaguar brand and the lack of negativity it brings out in people. It has quite rear-led handling and corners really well, I drove one at Thruxton recently in the newer 370bhp spec and really enjoyed it, and I liked the engine note of the V6 Supercharged a lot more than some UK journos. I'd rev it out more than the XFR, where if I am being honest my forays above 5k revs are extremely limited as it's so damn fast and I need my license. I've had XE's as loan cars and generally like them - the dash and steering wheel are a bit newer and sportier than the XF's. And all come with some of the key spec I need like Merdian stereo, heated sports seats, etc ("S" spec in Jaguar land is a high spec, "R Sport" is the badge engineering like "S Line" or "M Sport" ). One obvious positive is that in fuel, warranty, tax and running costs this will be at least £1500 a year - possibly more like £2k - less to run than the XFR. While I may not necessarily feel that in my pocket, man-maths dictates that's a couple of top-line trackdays a year to get my burning rubber fix. And the XE S is not a slow car - it is 4.9 seconds to 60 (XFR is 4.7) and it is less than a second behind the XFR to a standing quarter, well over 100mph. And for me and how I drive supercharging is a real plus as even the slightest lag is a PITA when trying to use the throttle to aid cornering. The negatives are that is's just not as much of a "car nut" car as the XFR. It's not a V8, it' missing a bit of spec (cooled memory seats in particular!) and although I like the dash, wheel and dials, the rest of the interior is not as special as the XFR's, which has a full leather dash and lots of actual metal which I rate a lot more than a more recent screen and UI. And while 500bhp may not be used regularly, when you do use it, it's life affirmingly epic in nature. There are days - like when I went the twisty way to North Wales one up on a sunny autumn day last year, when the XFR feels like it could just not be bettered on twisty, bumpy, yet sometimes open and very fast roads. Then again, if I'm in an XE S for the next 3 years, think how epic the seemingly inevitable Guilia Quadrifoglio will feel. I have a slight fear that going from an XFR to one will make it feel like a slightly naughtier but barely quicker car with no V8 sound and less refinement. After an XE S it's going to be an exciting step up again. First world problems eh! A couple of examples and a video review from a channel I've come to like (the follow up review where it loses to the C43 overall despite being a better driver's car is on johnc's AMG thread) below. The blue one is very close to me and very cheap, and while I'd prefer an XFR from a Jag dealer with Jag warranty, I', not so bothered with the XE. I do like the red and the propellor 20" wheels on this one, but the red leather that seems to always come with the red is a bit weird - on a white, black, grey etc car red leather is fine, with red it's a bit weird: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801182878511www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803074332065 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 12:15:50 GMT
It sounds like you've considered most pros and cons. Have you driven one in poor conditions?
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Post by scouse on Apr 9, 2018 13:38:31 GMT
I prefer the interior on our kid's XE-Rsport over my E-class (space aside obviously) and the Multimedai stuff is quicker & more intuitive than mine, despite what the magazines say.
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Post by johnc on Apr 9, 2018 14:46:31 GMT
Given the price of the XE S when it came out I would say those cars are fairly well priced at c£25K less than new after 3 years. Whilst not as obviously car nut as an XFR I think anyone who knows about cars will give the XE S an knowing nod of approval.
With a shorter chassis than the XF I would make sure you test drive it to ensure the ride meets your high mileage requirements. You might not find the ride to be as absorbent in the smaller car but the reports certainly suggest that it is a better UK road set up than the Germans can muster.
I am still mulling over a very low mile 66 plate C63 at £49K with a delivery mileage 67 plate M4 at the same money or possibly a new updated C43 which won't be available until after June and will be similar money discounted. |
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Post by Tim on Apr 9, 2018 15:42:12 GMT
The XE-S had never entered my mind as a possible 340i competitor.
These UK car mags are crap aren't they when they can't even bother including the local opposition to the usual suspects?
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Post by PG on Apr 9, 2018 15:46:49 GMT
I think the XE-S is a really good choice. I'd be very tempted by the same move if I needed to swap out the XFR.
I had an XE R Sport 240hp petrol loan car for a week when my brakes had to be changed soon after I got the XFR and I was very impressed with it. Your point about it moulding around you is very true - it did feel more nimble than the XF and yet also very comfortable. I've not driven an XE with the 340hp V6 engine.
They are pretty well specced. You'll miss the cooled seats and the voodoo cruise, but they are an expensive option on pretty much everything Jaguar now. It is a pity that there ar enot more of them with the digital dash - I think that looks better then the two sunken dials but again they are very rare on the 340 S. I'd avoid rear privacy glass (like the red one you linked to). It's not a van!
Don't you think it is worth trying to get one from the Jag channel? There are quite a few on there at £27-28k with less miles than the blue one you linked to. And you'd get the 2 year Jag warranty thrown in.
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Post by Martin on Apr 9, 2018 15:49:45 GMT
It’s not a car I’m particularly excited about, but to be fair to it, I’ve only looked at the showroom, I haven’t had a drive. A fairly recent / decent spec one would be in budget for Lindsay’s next car and it does feel like a decent amount of car for the money, but I’m really not sure.
Finding one without the two tone interior would be essential.
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Post by Martin on Apr 9, 2018 15:56:05 GMT
I had this one in my Autotrader garage (despite the colour) until I spotted the ‘Thrifty’ badge! link |
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Post by alf on Apr 9, 2018 16:56:07 GMT
I had this one in my Autotrader garage (despite the colour) until I spotted the ‘Thrifty’ badge! linkHmm so now you are tempting me with a much more recent one for not much more cash :-( It is post-facelift, which I know nothing about except power goes to 380PS... which is a very handy upgrade. Perhaps if I kept the XFR to the autumn more of these would pop into my price range, which is attempting to be well sub £30k. But it's a balance. I can get 2017 340i saloons in budget but I'm just monumentally unexcited about them to be honest, every picture I see reminds me how little they have changed from my 330i, and how that car was competent but aloof and not really that exciting. I wonder if the 2 tone leather is a launch special thing as they all seem to have it. In blue its fine, in cream/black its good, in red its not good. Privacy glass I dislike intensely but is hard to avoid in more recent cars. Because obviously we all deal drugs in the rear seats of our cars. Or something. Edited to add: just did a search on them 2017 onwards and all the ones I see coming up sub £35k are still 335bhp, weird. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 9, 2018 17:02:09 GMT
I had this one in my Autotrader garage (despite the colour) until I spotted the ‘Thrifty’ badge! linkHmm so now you are tempting me with a much more recent one for not much more cash :-( That’s how car buying works, at least it is when you use man maths properly! I started off with a much lower second car budget so I could increase the one for the main, but it’s gone up a fair bit and as man maths is involved, the other budget hasn’t decreased. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 9, 2018 17:06:14 GMT
A quick Google suggests the updated car was available from May 2017. The one in the link I posted was registered in June 2017, tax ran out in November so it’s been hanging around for 5 months
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Post by PG on Apr 9, 2018 22:11:39 GMT
I wonder if the 2 tone leather is a launch special thing as they all seem to have it. In blue its fine, in cream/black its good, in red its not good. Privacy glass I dislike intensely but is hard to avoid in more recent cars. Because obviously we all deal drugs in the rear seats of our cars. Or something. I think it was a launch thing - I went to one of the launches (static only sadly) at Jaguar and the car was a red 340 S with red / black two tone leather. And for a while every one that was on the Jag website was red with red two tone leather - so they must have all been the same. The red does not look good. |
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Post by chipbutty on Apr 13, 2018 16:06:08 GMT
You can't really compare an early build XE S to the current 380 ps model you will have driven. The 380 ps cars had some exhaust tweaks and other details improvements that make the overall package much nicer. You also have to consider that in terms of build integrity, you really don't want the first year's production of any brand new model (and the XE was totally and properly brand new). Finally - in control pro is eleventy million times better than in control touch and I would expect it to have a bigger impact on used car desirability over time. I don't know what your budget is - but 380 ps models with ICP are circa £40k - with the exception of this car. Ignore the hideous black wheels - you can have them re-painted or buy some others. used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2846504This is baaad asssss... used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2847599This is a reasonable price - although I am not sure on your stance vs poofy interiors used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2810184 |
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Post by PG on Apr 13, 2018 16:31:18 GMT
Baaaad assssss indeed. Lose the rear privacy glass and that's perfect. |
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Post by Boxer6 on Apr 13, 2018 18:19:30 GMT
Baaaad assssss indeed. Lose the rear privacy glass and that's perfect. Horses for courses - that's perfect to my eyes.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 19:29:37 GMT
Very nice.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 15, 2018 11:36:34 GMT
I like the XE-S a lot. It can look a touch dowdy in the wrong colour/wheel combination and the interior didn't impress me much, but the car is otherwise very appealing. I only discounted it from consideration as it came out extremely expensive on PCP whichever I cut it.
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Post by alf on Apr 18, 2018 10:37:44 GMT
Cheers for the comments. That XFR is on my radar but I just can't get over the colour of the interior - its not just the seats, the headlining and loads of interior trim is white also and it's just too much. Interesting re: the XE as I drove a new one. And the early XE's and new shape XF's get panned for reliability. There was one of those (very subjective!) owners surveys in a mag at my dad's at the weekend where the original XF like mine (and facelifted) was third out of heaps of cars for owner satisfaction, the only luxury car near the top - they are well loved. |
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Post by PG on Apr 19, 2018 20:52:50 GMT
Looks like Jaguar have dropped the 380PS V6 and S trim from the XE range. Replaced by a 300 PS 4 pot AWD "Sport" model. It could be that the issues with diesel are meeting the manufacturer CO2 targets head on and its costing anything larger engined and petrol that is low volume. But I'd also read somewhere that JLR are running out of production capacity for the V8 supercharged engines (still built by Ford) and as the V6 Supercharged uses the same block and is also built by Ford, they need to use all the slots to build V8's and not V6's.
Edited to add: looks like the same has also happened to the XF range. Somehow a 300PS AWD XF estate seems quite appealing.
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Post by alf on Apr 20, 2018 8:54:26 GMT
Not to me it doesn't. That's a shame - one of my concerns with the XE S was that no-one really knows what it is, so will it hold value? The 380PS one I do like a lot - but it would have to be cheap for me to want to commit to a discontinued car that no-one recognised in the first place.
I'm sure you are right about the engines - limited availability from Ford (I wonder if Ford lose money making them?) so the available engines go to the likes of the SVR models which are halo models and get the press.
One of the appeals to me of the XE S was the fuel consumption while still having a decent engine note - but this week I have averaged nearly 30mpg for my longer trips (we won't talk about the rest - high grip fever after the summers went back on) and I wonder just how much better an XE S would do at a steady indicated 75. Steady sensible motorway speeds allow silly engines to get much closer to smaller ones than in town driving. A 340i might do 40MPG in the same use, but even then, do I really care?
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Post by PG on Apr 20, 2018 9:07:39 GMT
"Somehow a 300PS AWD XF estate seems quite appealing." I did mean that in a relative not absolute sense.
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Post by alf on Apr 20, 2018 11:11:56 GMT
It's an engine that should be bang on the money for current times, being a decently economical petrol 4 pot and with 300PS. Remember when 200bhp seemed massive from a 2 litre turbo engine? 5.7 seconds to 60, and 40 MPG, are good figures for a big car like the XF and a 4 pot petrol engine. I can't recall how the engine felt/sounded in the E Pace 300PS I drove, I was too focused on my dislike of some of the controls (pistol grip gear lever, weird handbrake position, etc) and the leany SUV handling combined with brakes and steering feel I did not gel with - after the 380PS XE S it felt a mess (albeit better than other SUV's) and the list price was much the same. But I do hope the Ingenium sounds decent and revs cleanly. The VAG 2 litre engine in the A4 we had (basically the Mk5 Golf GTi engine) was nice in this respect - horrid at startup but sounded and revved well for a 4 pot. Many of the current breed - like the 330is' motor - get very poor write-ups when it comes to character. Modern turbo direct injection 4 pots definitely have a character issue. Edited to add - I did not know about this either, presumably this is one reason the V6's are being phased out: www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jlr-launch-ingenium-straight-six-enginesHope at least! Funny how everyone bar BMW had V6 not straight 6. but now straight 6's are "in" for the reasons stated in the article. |
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Post by chipbutty on Apr 20, 2018 12:35:56 GMT
Thankfully the six banger diesel remains in XF (for now).
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Post by Roadrunner on Apr 20, 2018 12:50:41 GMT
Thankfully the six banger diesel remains in XF (for now). No straight six diesel planned? |
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Post by chipbutty on Apr 20, 2018 12:51:21 GMT
Might be, but it's after the petrol
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Post by alf on Apr 26, 2018 15:56:59 GMT
Having lurked for a while, very few newly marketed late model XFR's are coming up, and they are mostly black and/or have red or cream leather. I feel in less of a hurry than I did, but cars are a little like jobs, when you start seriously looking you get itchy feet. I still like this one which is a private sale, but with 6 months Jag warranty (so can be extended - my main concern with a private car is that I may not be able to get it on the warranty). It's a very nice colour, black leather, and while the wheels are not my choice, I could use them as winters, and most late model XFR seem to have these: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803164647411I have to say I also like these two as well, even after the discussion about XE being new at this age, the demise of the engine, etc. It's a more exuberant (in handling and noise) choice than the 335i or S4/5, comes with adaptive suspension, bi xenon lights, good stereo etc that are upgrades on ze Germans, and lets me see if this 300-350 bhp level is indeed the "right" amount for road use. The first one here is a dealer one with 2 year's warranty and with a very good spec (even cooled seats and voodoo cruise like my current car), plus it's one of the few red ones without red leather. The second one is a colour I really like (I even like the wheels, despite myself) and while lacking those last items of FG and at somewhat higher miles it's just really cheap for what it is and lets me keep some cash in the bank. Some muppet (the lease company or car supermarket probably) has put budget tyres on the rear which I would temporarily melt before binning, and it lacks the dealer warranty of the other one, but it has been prepared professionally at least and all wheels/bodywork sorted as per car supermarket SOP's. My car needed new rear pads a couple of months after I bought it from a Jag dealer, and then they lasted almost another 3 years, so I question how hard they looked! www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804065298727www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801182878511And lastly while I don't feel it for some beemers, for some reason I like 335i or 340i Tourings, in blue only, I don't know why (not with light leather!) and still like this: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803285010053I'm not travelling quite as much in the next couple of weeks (have been in Barcelona this week) so I may go and see some stuff... |
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Post by PG on Apr 26, 2018 16:55:58 GMT
Of all that lot I'd take the XFR. On an OE plate (Oxford) it is probably an ex Jag car.
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Post by Martin on Apr 26, 2018 17:31:38 GMT
Of all that lot I'd take the XFR. Which one is the shocked face emoji?  |
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Post by Tim on Apr 27, 2018 8:37:47 GMT
I like the wheels on the grey one
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