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Post by johnc on Jan 21, 2018 8:40:36 GMT
I am sure lots of you do what I do on Autotrader and put a whole set of criteria in without choosing a make or model and just hit search in anticipation of finding something that would otherwise have slipped through the net. I did that last night and up popped lots of Audi S4 saloons which are hardly used, well equipped, sub 5s to 60 and 4WD - they start around £30K which is a minimum of £15K off new but with options, more likely about £20K less which is 40% depreciation in under a year.
Are these cars lemons or a missed opportunity? I know that in absolute terms an RS4 is faster and more focused but it's £40K more so not really a fair comparison. The S4 is also up to £10K cheaper than a similarly powered and 4WD C43, so what's going on - is it just rubbish or does no-one really notice the hidden bargain sub halo model, preferring the RS4 at the top of the tree or the utilitarian and mundane at the other end?
EDIT: I will admit it isn't the prettiest incarnation with the A4 badge |
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Post by Martin on Jan 21, 2018 10:34:34 GMT
At that price it has to be tempting. I think it’s a bit dull looking which might be effecting the value, but the interior is nice in the right spec. It briefly got onto my radar, but with the spec I would want (memory seats, Matrix lights as a minimum) it was more like a £40k+ car at 6-12 months old, which isn’t that tempting, especially as that’s close to a similar spec S5 Sportback.
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Post by Andy C on Jan 21, 2018 11:23:57 GMT
I saw a new black S4 saloon the other day and it looked really good. Maybe a bit dull but with this type of car, that would be ideal for me. I'd have it de-badged too. On paper it sounds a good all rounder
I went in Colin's previous gen S5 Sportback quite a lot and that got slated by the journo's. Bone crunching ride, shit steering etc. I can't comment on steering feel as I never drove it, but the ride was never that bad.
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Post by johnc on Jan 21, 2018 11:46:22 GMT
At that price it has to be tempting. I think it’s a bit dull looking which might be effecting the value, but the interior is nice in the right spec. It briefly got onto my radar, but with the spec I would want (memory seats, Matrix lights as a minimum) it was more like a £40k+ car at 6-12 months old, which isn’t that tempting, especially as that’s close to a similar spec S5 Sportback. There was one at £35K I think which had the Matrix lights, memory seats and the digital dash. |
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Post by Martin on Jan 21, 2018 11:50:33 GMT
At that price it has to be tempting. I think it’s a bit dull looking which might be effecting the value, but the interior is nice in the right spec. It briefly got onto my radar, but with the spec I would want (memory seats, Matrix lights as a minimum) it was more like a £40k+ car at 6-12 months old, which isn’t that tempting, especially as that’s close to a similar spec S5 Sportback. There was one at £35K I think which had the Matrix lights, memory seats and the digital dash. That is good value for money. |
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Post by PG on Jan 21, 2018 12:31:42 GMT
In think the Audi "S" cars suffer from the same fate as all the petrol sub-hao cars do across the marques. Hence the great deals on BMW 440i's and 140i's and the fact that second hand V8 XF's are really cheap compared to XFR's and so on.
In the diesel is king days, anyone buying a fast petrol would try and go for the top of the range model. Like me - chopped in a perfectly good V8 XF for an XFR. And as the top of the range model holds its value better (as it is the one that people want), the PCP rates hide a good chunk of the price difference if buying new.
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 22, 2018 11:31:59 GMT
I do remember my father complaining that the fuel consumption from the supercharged V6 in his 2010 S5 Sportback was not appreciably better than the V8 in his previous RS4, especially if you drove it hard.
I think S4s look good, but I greatly prefer a 5dr fastback to a saloon as an ownership proposition. It's just more practical and useful, as well as being a bit slinkier-looking.
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Post by michael on Jan 22, 2018 11:37:30 GMT
I don't think the S4 is a particularly good looking car these days, but the A4 as a model has got slightly worse with each iteration since the first. I wonder though if it's isn't so much a problem of the S4 but that this market is pretty much finished? I'd speculate that SQ5 sales are significantly stronger and that's what people are buying instead.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 22, 2018 12:15:45 GMT
For me the S4 is like an RS4 that somehow has had all that undefinable magic that makes the RS4 special, sucked out of it, leaving a bit of a bland husk.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jan 22, 2018 12:30:45 GMT
Not just you. I’ve been looking at the new S4 Avant for a while and thinking what good value they are. Dark blue, carbon dash and red leather would be a great replacement for our 3 series touring only thing is it’s a bit too Audi if you know what I mean
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 22, 2018 14:19:51 GMT
I don't think the S4 is a particularly good looking car these days, but the A4 as a model has got slightly worse with each iteration since the first. I wonder though if it's isn't so much a problem of the S4 but that this market is pretty much finished? I'd speculate that SQ5 sales are significantly stronger and that's what people are buying instead. I did some sort of mischief to my neck/upper back last week which somewhat restricted my movement and I could suddenly see why an SUV with a raised access point and improved visibility could be desirable for the elderly. Levering myself in and out of the GC and trying to see out of it when you can't turn your neck well was not fun.
On a separate note, the new SQ5 is horrible-looking. My father ordered himself an old-shape SQ5 Plus at the end of 2016 which must have been one of the last produced precisely because he liked the old one a lot but thought the design of the new one was gopping. Rather like my mother with her Countryman, he said he didn't care if it wasn't equipped with the very latest technology because he'd got along just fine with the tech in his last couple of Audis without thinking them hopelessly outdated.
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Post by michael on Jan 22, 2018 14:24:59 GMT
I did some sort of mischief to my neck/upper back last week which somewhat restricted my movement and I could suddenly see why an SUV with a raised access point and improved visibility could be desirable for the elderly. Levering myself in and out of the GC and trying to see out of it when you can't turn your neck well was not fun. Ouch! You have my sympathy, I had a neck pain last week but it seems to be on the mend. I did my lower back in over Christmas and I was quite thankful of my father-in-laws Yeti for it's raised height and headroom. In terms of the SQ5s looks I can't picture one but Audi have a knack of making each new model worse then the one before. Even the new Q7 makes it's predecessor look better which takes some doing. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 22, 2018 15:03:03 GMT
There's an SQ5 that goes down the A19 of a morning - I'm assuming it's the old model but whoever owns it has had it lowered. So buy an SUV for the higher driving position and then lower it...Yep, that makes total sense. It looks shit as well.
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Post by alf on Jan 22, 2018 17:35:39 GMT
Is this the new one? I'm quite fond of the new S4/S5 and by all accounts it sounds like a car that would be great to own, if not a group-test topper. The supercharged one was very thirsty and I have heard people have concerns about the gearbox reliability longer term, plus a friend got one after a 130i and was back in an M240i very rapidly for him - he found it very dull. But the newer turbocharged ones - and especially the all new recent one - sound like they drive better.
They are indeed a lot of car for the money. When I got the XFR a new S4 Avant - just before a model change - was sub £550 a month for 3 years on 20k miles p.a. That was not some sort of mathematically retarded "yeah its £300 a month mate" which turns out to have an unmentioned £8k "deposit" over 2 years and 20% VAT, it was sub £550 a month when adding the initial, final, and monthly payments together and dividing by 36 - including VAT. It was far and away the best value of the new cars I looked at, so no surprise the second hand ones also look good. It's a bit odd as the "RS" models are crazy expensive second hand.
The further north I lived on these shores, the more I would see 4WD as a help, not a hindrance...
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 22, 2018 18:11:00 GMT
I did some sort of mischief to my neck/upper back last week which somewhat restricted my movement and I could suddenly see why an SUV with a raised access point and improved visibility could be desirable for the elderly. Levering myself in and out of the GC and trying to see out of it when you can't turn your neck well was not fun. Ouch! You have my sympathy, I had a neck pain last week but it seems to be on the mend. I did my lower back in over Christmas and I was quite thankful of my father-in-laws Yeti for it's raised height and headroom. In terms of the SQ5s looks I can't picture one but Audi have a knack of making each new model worse then the one before. Even the new Q7 makes it's predecessor look better which takes some doing. Thanks. I am "necking" Ibuprofen and turmeric capsules in the hope it will go away. And seeing chiropractor.
As regards the SQ5, the old one is quite a handsome beast by SUV standards - older-school Audi with nice detailing. It turns out that my father decided to venture into the realms of the "Exclusive" brochure, so his is painted a smart dark olive green metallic with the black optics pack in order to minimise the bling, and inside it has leather seats that are a sort of dark chocolate colour with dark wood veneers. What you might term "smart shooting spec" which is appropriate since that's largely what he uses it for.
The new one is just more angular and gawky-looking.
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Post by johnc on Jan 22, 2018 18:31:18 GMT
Is this the new one? The further north I lived on these shores, the more I would see 4WD as a help, not a hindrance... It is indeed the new one.
As for 4WD, I have been able to trundle up my very snowy road and make it to work every day because of 4WD and it's beginning to change the way I am thinking about my next car. There has been a 3 series, XF and an E Class all stuck or left in their drives and every day mine just goes without any real issue. It might only be a few weeks a year but at Tax Return time, not being able to drive would be a disaster. The cheapest new shape RS5 I have found is £57K which is still out of the budget.
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Post by Martin on Jan 22, 2018 18:39:56 GMT
A set of winter tyres will solve that problem though John.
I’m not a huge fan on the new Q5, but it’s made the old one look very, errrr...old. It was very dated and a bit cheap looking / feeling inside when I looked at one 4 years ago, time will have not done it any favours, but it sounds like Racing snr has solved some of that by upping the trim spec.
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Post by johnc on Jan 22, 2018 19:43:19 GMT
A set of winter tyres will solve that problem though John. Yes it would but an enquiry last week informed me that it would cost over £3,000 for a set of 19" winter wheels and tyres for an M4. I have had a look on ebay and there are a few used sets about but the 19"'s are £1700/£1900 and the 18" can be had for about £1400.
However BMW put the 20" wheels and tyres on the M4 Competition to stop it spinning up its rear tyres in the dry so it might not be very easy to drive on much narrower 18" rubber especially when a lot of the time will be wet. 20" winter tyres are about £450 each at the back and £340 at the front and I hate to think what the wheels might cost.
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Post by Martin on Jan 22, 2018 20:24:53 GMT
I could easily man maths that £3k down to £1k or less!
The wheels will have some value at the end, more if there is tyre tread left and you’re likely to save a full set of summer tyres.
Interesting point about the 20s, as I’m pretty sure the car they gave Evo, which they said was so much better than the pre LCI non Competition pack car, was on the no cost option 19s.
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Post by johnc on Jan 22, 2018 20:47:29 GMT
I'm going to go and see if I can get a bit more of a test drive than I did before. The salesman kept putting things into the full fat mode and the car was no faster than the average 2 litre hack given the amount of wheelspin. I have watched a few Youtube videos and gearbox in the mid setting together with the throttle and it might be more driveable on the road. When it changed gear in full in your face mode, it felt like the teenager with no mechanical sympathy who dumped the clutch at high revs and the wrong time with the precision of an anvil (I am sure we all had acquaintances in our youth like that). I really want to like it but it has to be a daily driver too which is able to do all the mundane jobs, not kill me and leave me able to walk after driving on some less than perfect roads.
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 22, 2018 22:45:56 GMT
BMW wanted £2k for a new set of Sottozero-shod "397"-style 18" alloys. I got an identical year-old set for £750 (and a trip to Oxford services on the M40) from a pleasant enthusiast off the F30 Forums.
Just a thought.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 2:41:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 8:22:19 GMT
A set of winter tyres will solve that problem though John. I would have thought that winters solve the winter problem, but not the precipitation one! |
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Post by Martin on Jan 23, 2018 8:56:09 GMT
A set of winter tyres will solve that problem though John. I would have thought that winters solve the winter problem, but not the precipitation one! They will help traction when it’s both cold and wet, mine do anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 9:37:35 GMT
Not sure they'd help an M4, though. Is yours two or four wheel drive? I have recollections of both, which clearly can't be right.
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Post by Martin on Jan 23, 2018 10:48:08 GMT
Not sure they'd help an M4, though. Is yours two or four wheel drive? I have recollections of both, which clearly can't be right. RWD. It has 465 torks and being the estate, only has 245 wide rear tyres. As long as it’s in a straight line, it will take full throttle from standstill in the wet without the TC light coming on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 12:19:14 GMT
Wider tyres on the saloon, I take it. Why is that?
I would also suspect that yours has better innate traction than an M4 from what I've read. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 23, 2018 12:27:03 GMT
Not sure they'd help an M4, though. Is yours two or four wheel drive? I have recollections of both, which clearly can't be right. RWD. It has 465 torks and being the estate, only has 245 wide rear tyres. As long as it’s in a straight line, it will take full throttle from standstill in the wet without the TC light coming on. I’ve got 265/35 19” on the 3 series touring. I would have thoughts yours would be similar. |
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Post by Martin on Jan 23, 2018 12:34:48 GMT
An M Sport saloon would have 245 fronts and 275 rears, all the estates have 245 all round. It’s supposed be due to different rear suspension, the estate has Self levelling air suspension at the rear, but the 275x20 wheels available as an accessory will fit.
The different rear suspension definitely improves traction (and ride), that might have something to do with it, but it’s unlikely?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 13:19:39 GMT
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