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Post by grampa on Jan 12, 2018 10:08:09 GMT
Lots of discussions about diesels at the moment - looks like the whole diesel car thing will have come and gone without me ever owning one - I've driven plenty of course from the early 80's awful stuff (Sierra diesel) to the not so bad at at all (BMW 320 coupe, Transit) and the OK ish (Jag X-type), but never have I ever felt moved to own one.
How many of you are in the same boat?
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 12, 2018 10:15:41 GMT
I’ve never had a Diesel engine in a normal car. Fourtrak and Defender don’t count.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jan 12, 2018 10:27:44 GMT
Your really not missing out. The modern large engine diesels are ok but the 4cyl stuff I can't get on with at all.
I would never own one but have been forced into it as part of a company car programme. Mrs has a 320d which is ok and reasonably swift for what it is but its an unrefined lump and I should have bought a 328/330i instead.
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Post by Blarno on Jan 12, 2018 10:52:11 GMT
I'm on my 5th diesel car now and the likelihood of me going back to petrol power is very slim unless I get a job closer to home or suddenly start getting paid Bob Geldof wages. I do nearly 20k a year and the only thing that makes sense for me is diesel power. No petrol engine will give me the torque and economy combination that I get from diesel: Once something with petrol power has 250 lb/ft of torque and a real-world-not-bullshit-lab-conditions 45 mpg average and is availble for less than 3 grand, I'm there.
I could get a small petrol engined car, but where's the fun in that? I have 2 growing kids and I like having an estate car for ferrying my bikes and tools around. I also like overtaking people with impunity.
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Post by johnc on Jan 12, 2018 10:57:23 GMT
I'll stay out of this conversation but believe that diesel will still be around for a good while yet and its demise will only come at the same time as the petrol engines get the chop as well! The 35D/40D engines might not be quite as refined as their petrol counterparts at slow speeds but they also offer lots that the petrol's can't: it's not black and white and I am glad I have had two.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 12, 2018 11:01:25 GMT
Not a fan of four cylinder diesels, but my Benz 320 cdi does a passable impression of the 6,750 cc V8 in my Silver Shadow. Effortless waftability, which is exactly what I want from my daily driver.
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Post by Martin on Jan 12, 2018 11:23:35 GMT
I’ve had a lot of diesels, but the 535d is the only one I’ve spent my own money on. I don’t think you can say one is better than the other as a general / sweeping statement, I’ve driven cars with good and bad versions of both.
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Post by scouse on Jan 12, 2018 12:03:28 GMT
Cavalier 1.7td - yuk, and to think I bought it because petrol broke 60ppl..... Big Reggie (Espace 1.9td) - far more suitable than the 2.0 petrol turbo that replaced it in Bigger Reggie XC60 2.4 5 cyl turbo diesel - really, really suited the car. Quite characterful for an oil burner E220d - it's got plenty of torques??
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 12, 2018 13:49:06 GMT
I've had two: my first car was a nearly-new Rover 115SD which had a 1.5 non-turbo diesel snaffled from Peugeot. It's nearly 20 years ago now, so my memory of what it was like is fading, but I do recall being able to fill it for £17 and it then not needing refilling for a goodly while, so that was very good from a student budget perspective. Poor little thing got driven absolutely flat-out everywhere (you kind of had to in order to make half-decent progress), including half-way around Europe (Germany, Switzerland, Italy, South of France) and eventually cracked its cylinder head at 30k miles (one suspects from sheer abuse but it was repaired on goodwill by Rover).
I confess to having had a soft spot for Rover 100s ever since, but the one that gets a corner spot in my fantasy garage would be a 1.4 petrol.
The other was the E91 330d manual Touring, which I owned for about 3 months in 2011 before realising I had made a mistake and swapping it for the M5. It just wasn't very characterful, wasn't very interesting to drive and wasn't even particularly fuel-efficient for the type of driving I was doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 14:31:11 GMT
2, one in a Grand Scenic and another in a Picasso, both were OK-ish with no point in revving beyond about 3.5k rpm. I imagine the evacuation from volume diesel sales will depend on Government policy on taxation and can see this being increased heavily at some point to encourage the transition. Larger engined, non volume diesels will trickle on for a while after that because the break even point in percentage of vehicle cost to profit margin is more acceptable and economy will still hold some interest.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 12, 2018 18:41:29 GMT
..... the likelihood of me going back to petrol power is very slim unless I get a job closer to home or suddenly start getting paid Bob Geldof wages. (snip) No petrol engine will give me the torque and economy combination that I get from diesel: Once something with petrol power has 250 lb/ft of torque and a real-world-not-bullshit-lab-conditions 45 mpg average (snip), I'm there. I could get a small petrol engined car, but where's the fun in that? I (snip) like having an estate car for ferrying my bikes and tools around. (snip) ^ as above except I am in the fortunate position of having a small petrol-engined car as well, and don't I love that ! Early diesel cars were a bit on the noisy and smelly side, plus the non-turbo versions required a lot of patience (and planning ahead) to drive enthusiastically. Having driven younger daughter's old 1.6 petrol Fiesta to Nottingham a while ago before it was traded in, I have to say that I miss the instant throttle response of a decent petrol engine (Honda, bring back the 1.5 12-valve from the 1980's Civic please). Maybe if petrol wasn't so expensive I'd stick with it despite the poorer mpg - cheap fuel is probably what's kept most Americans in petrol-engined cars
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Post by michael on Jan 12, 2018 20:40:09 GMT
I’ve had a few. They suit a type of driving and a type of car. As John says both Petrol and diesel have their strengths and weaknesses. I think both will be around a while.
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Post by Stuntman on Jan 12, 2018 20:45:28 GMT
Never owned one. Driven a few courtesy car diesels and thought they were perfectly OK for the job they were intended.
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Post by PG on Jan 12, 2018 21:01:07 GMT
My first experience of diesels was a Fiesta diesel (non turbo) pool car that the company I worked for in London in 1990 had on the fleet. By heck that was noisy and slow, but goodness was it economical.
My and Mrs PG's first experiences of modern turbo-diesels were in pool cars - a Pug 306 D Turbo and a Citroen ZX (same PSA 1.6 TD engine in both) and they were a revelation - fast, economical, torquey. It was that experience that persuaded Mrs PG to get her A3 TDi 130 (the old PD lump), replacing an Audi A3 1.6 petrol. And I then took over that car and used it for a couple of years once she stopped full time work. I don't think I've driven a better small capacity diesel engine since, for it was effortlessly torquey from tickover, superb on the motorway and did 45-50 mpg however you drove it. You could pull away from rest with no throttle at all. When I tired that in a Volvo V40 D2 I nearly met a sticky end as I stalled it.
I had an automatic diesel X Type estate (2.2 Ford lump) and that struggled to get over 40mpg unless you drove every where really gently. THe 2.5 and 3.0 V6 X Type petrols were way better engines in the X Type, but rather more thirsty.
We've had four diesel engined "trucks". A RR Classic 300 Tdi - slow, noisy and was swapped for a V8 after a couple of years (way, way, better!). A 300 Tdi Defender that we had breathed on (bigger fuel pump) and that suited the car. And our Shogun is powered a 3.2 4 cylinder TD "ship engine". The red line is at 4000 and anything over 3000 and you're wasting your time. It's a good lugger but will do 75-80 on the motorway all day if you ask it. Usually gets between 25-28 mpg except when towing a laden livestock trailer when 15-18 mpg is more normal.
Lastly our Peugeot horse lorry has a PSA 3.0 6 cylinder TD engine. It flies really and hits the 56 mph limiter way too quickly.
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Post by chipbutty on Jan 12, 2018 21:50:16 GMT
Windermere to Warwick in 2hrs 40 minutes (190 miles @ 40 mpg)
Chiswick to Warwick this evening (15 miles crawl on the M4 and M25, followed by 75 miles dropping dawdlers on the M40) = 41.4 mpg
Beefcake 6 pot diesels are fookin brilliant, instant gobs of creamy grunt with great economy. There is no way I’d take the supercharged v6 petrol over the 700nm diesel.
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Post by Andy C on Jan 14, 2018 22:17:19 GMT
I had a 306 1.9 D-turbo as my first car. 120bhp, a shit load of torque, and insurance group 5. (90bhp as standard, but the derv doctor tweaked it for about £150)
The engine was so old, it had no ECU map, instead he altered the fuel pump settings and slightly raised the boost pressure on the turbo.
It was deceptively quick but so unrefined it was laughable.
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Post by alf on Jan 15, 2018 14:56:22 GMT
I have never had one (for either car in the family) and I never will...
I would seriously consider electric (in the Tesla, not the Lead, variety) but there needs to be better range and/or variety of filling locations first, my car regularly sits idle for days then does 150+ miles to an industrial estate in the middle of nowhere and 150+ miles back home. The ranges are almost enough now, if they are a bit more "real world" than VW's emissions figures.
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Post by Blarno on Jan 15, 2018 15:00:08 GMT
I had a 306 1.9 D-turbo as my first car. 120bhp, a shit load of torque, and insurance group 5. (90bhp as standard, but the derv doctor tweaked it for about £150) The engine was so old, it had no ECU map, instead he altered the fuel pump settings and slightly raised the boost pressure on the turbo. It was deceptively quick but so unrefined it was laughable. Those were the days, when you could just tweak the fuel pump and wind out the wastegate actuator for more power. Me and a couple of mates fiddled with a Merc Sprinter with the 2.9 5 pot diesel and had it spinning the wheels in 3rd gear....
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Post by rodge on Jan 16, 2018 3:10:29 GMT
I had an S-Max 2.0 Diesel and the engine suited the car really well. It also did over 40mpg and had bags of torque so was much faster in gear than my E46 325.
We had a 1.4 TDCi Fusion too, which was very economical and was great for the size of the car.
I’d drive a diesel here in the US if I could get a decent one, but VW are really the only ones who sell them and Ford are only releasing a diesel in the F150. Most petrol cars here have atrocious economy. Both of our cars average under 20mpg in all circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 18:04:06 GMT
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Post by johnc on Jan 17, 2018 10:32:26 GMT
Windermere to Warwick in 2hrs 40 minutes (190 miles @ 40 mpg) Chiswick to Warwick this evening (15 miles crawl on the M4 and M25, followed by 75 miles dropping dawdlers on the M40) = 41.4 mpg Beefcake 6 pot diesels are fookin brilliant, instant gobs of creamy grunt with great economy. There is no way I’d take the supercharged v6 petrol over the 700nm diesel. Totally agree. It's only when you have used one as rapid daily transport that you can fully appreciate their strengths.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jan 24, 2018 8:56:29 GMT
I've had a a Toyota Verso with a 2.2 140bhp IIRC, V70 2.4 D5 and now the Captur 1.5. The Verso was typically average, the Captur, whilst economical, is underwhelming in every way and the D5 was great - good sound, plenty of torques and great economy on a long run, although not so good at all on short trips. The biggest issue I have with diesels is the narrow power band and less than marvellous aural qualities, although I'm sure that a 6 cylinder lump would mitigate those concerns.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 9:26:15 GMT
Covering very few miles per year, my shift away from V-Power is likely to be distant and to electricity. And not soon.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jan 24, 2018 9:27:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 9:43:16 GMT
Hence the 'not soon'!
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Post by Tim on Jan 24, 2018 14:06:45 GMT
I've had a few diesels - 3 of the Fiat 1.9 variety (first Stilo in 115BHP flavour, 2nd Stilo in 80BHP - just as quick and 130BHP in the Punto Sporting) also 3 320ds and the 530d. If I was to get another one I'd want it to be a 6 pot - I doubt the economy would be significantly worse than I'm getting now, around 45mpg, and the sound and performance are so much nicer.
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