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Post by alf on Jan 2, 2018 15:26:58 GMT
Right then, a mile-out from the eventuality "what to do" thread - the very essence of a motoring forum!
Come April I will have had the XFR for 3 years. I bought it with 30k up, and it now has 82k on it, it will be on 6 figures by the end of the year, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to sell then privately. I have to start thinking about things now, particularly as I need to save money if I'm going to do something!
I basically have two probable courses of action - keep the XFR as-is for another 2-3 years, or change it some time this year for another XFR, say a facelifted one (2012 onwards) with less than 40k miles on it. I like the car a lot (understatement - it's nigh on perfect for me) and would not mind at all another 3-4 years in one. That said, I don't much prefer the facelifted one inside or out, and the oily bits are much the same bar an 8 speed box, which is overkill for this sort of engine and potentially annoying when self-shifting, so there is not a huge value to me in changing.
Those who know me even remotely will have guessed what I am likely to buy after the XFR phase (and Jaguar are forcing me out by failing to replace the XFR or make an XER) - a Giulia Quadrifoglio. I would also look at a C63 4.0, the 6-pot M3 does not do much for me. The Alfas only came out at the very end of 2016, and I don't like spending much more than the £25k my current car cost, its going to be some time before the Alfa is affordable, and the Merc may never drop to this level at an age/mileage I would go for.
My nagging doubts are:
a) my current XFR has been great and is a perfect colour/spec for me - is it worth blowing £15k odd on a newer version of the same? Or would it simply be worth keeping it 2-3 years more and basically writing off the value so that I can trade it in for peanuts and not care? The current car is a 2011, in terms of age I could be upgrading for a lot of money and a not much newer car, with my mostly long-trip driving I don't generate much wear. I would also miss some of the relatively rare spec items on mine, such as radar cruise, that I use a lot.
b) the Alfa may turn out to be unreliable (!), not especially refined for long trips, or just no better in my opinion. It may be slightly over-muted but the XFR's V8 roar will take a lot of replacing... In which case I may be better off getting into another XFR, finding one as low-mileage and to my tastes as possible (probably the dark metallic red which is quite rare) and taking advantage of the fact my mileage is lowering year on year - I cvould get it down to 15k or so, so don't destroy the value in my cars like I used to.
I have to say that compared to anything similar, the XFR is still excellent value!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 15:43:50 GMT
Sounds like you just made the argument for keeping your current car. Reduced mileage can only make the case stronger.
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Post by Martin on Jan 2, 2018 16:25:23 GMT
Not necessarily what I’d do, but Option A (with a warranty) sounds the most sensible option based on your requirements.
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 2, 2018 16:45:27 GMT
Seems mad to change it to me. Martin’s suggestion of a warranty may be a sensible route depending on costs.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jan 2, 2018 17:05:52 GMT
Is there room to simply keep the XFR for a weekend toy? It is the proverbial future classic. If so, how about something economical and mundane for daily use?
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Post by PG on Jan 2, 2018 17:17:46 GMT
Tough decision. I mean the keep v a newer XFR decision. I can't see the Alfa and Merc standing any chance really.....
There are pros and cons as you say.
The early facelift cars kept the 6 speed box (mine is 6 speed). I think it was 2013 when the 8 speed box came in. From what I've read the 8 speed box might be a real benefit to your fuel economy on motorway trips as 7th = the old 6th and 8th is a true motorway overdrive ratio.
But finding a well specced one (and voovoo cruise is incredibly, almost unicorn level , rare) in the Jag channel is getting harder. I'm sure you've looked and there are fewer and fewer in the Jag channel. And I'm not sure I'd want to spend big money on an XFR from a non Jag dealer. As unless the vehicle already has a Jag warranty, you have to have a huge Jag inspection and fix anything they want done before they'll give you a Jag warranty.
You know and like yours, and I think you can run the Jag warranty up to 100k miles.
I think I'd keep yours for now but not rule out a swap if you see something in the spec you want - I think you'll need to look some time until the right one comes up. Then take the decision at that point.
Have you tried the 380PS new shape XF? I'd be interested to try one for a comparison.
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Post by michael on Jan 2, 2018 17:29:57 GMT
I’m amazed you prefer the non-facelift model! I think you’re in a minority there and as the newer car becomes more affordable I’d imagine that like for like they will retain their value better. I’d be wanting to change just because I like a change.
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Post by Alex on Jan 2, 2018 19:01:35 GMT
I think Michael has a point and sadly, the likelihood of future buyers agreeing with him too will have a detrimental effect on your XFR as I imagine most magazine buyers guides will tell readers to look for a facelift car. There’s no doubt it’s a great car and the absence of a replacement (at least with a V8) will give it future classic status, but may lose some value against a newer car. I think you either have to keep it for the long term or ditch it now while it’s got value. I don’t think you can currently spend £25k and be satisfied you’ve got something as good let alone better.
If I were you I’d be having a serious chat with your local Alfa dealer about the Quadrfoglio. I know you don’t want to spend over £25k but I can’t help wondering that they aren’t selling enough to satisfy all the second hand buyers waiting for it to drop down to bargain basement values. I might be wrong and maybe in a couple of years there will be a few sub £20k cars out there but if supply is short you’ll be better off looking for rocking horse shit. I think £35k is the lowest they’ll go for at least 3 years if not more.
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 2, 2018 19:49:06 GMT
Keep it and buy something else (car or non car) to sooth your soul then shift the XFR when it goes beyond the point of service cost vs reliability requirement.
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Post by Tim on Jan 3, 2018 10:26:43 GMT
I wouldn't worry too much about the mileage on the XFR - it's a 5 litre V8 and cars like that are going up in value.
Even if you keep it for another 3 years and its at 150k miles it'll still have a decent amount of value (although probably not if you were to trade it to a main dealer).
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Post by chipbutty on Jan 3, 2018 11:06:05 GMT
I wouldn't bother with the last of the line XFRs when the XJRs now fall into a similar price range. The XJR is a better car (better chassis than the XFR, more power, less weight, beautiful interior) and barely any bigger in the grand scheme of things. used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2825032Just before Christmas, a couple of 16 plate cars went through the JLR network at low 40s |
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Post by grampa on Jan 3, 2018 11:25:39 GMT
I would go for option A as well - all that money for a newer Jag just doesn't make sense (I had exactly the same thought about swapping my Scirocco for a newer one and didn't do it) - aren't the days of buyers working about six figure mileages long gone? - as long as a car has a good service record, it's not something that would worry me, and the cheaper cars I've bought (admittedly for other family members - for the last 30 years my cars have had 0 miles on the clock when I've bought them) have all had six figure mileages and none have been a problem.
And aren't the days of unreliable Alfas also long gone? - the one I owned and ran for 60,000 miles 21 years ago was fault free and with good service from the dealers, even one I once used in London.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jan 3, 2018 15:43:52 GMT
The clues in your name, you're not called JLF its ALF therefore get the Alfa bought or I'll make you change your name to Arthur Daley.
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Post by franki68 on Jan 3, 2018 17:15:31 GMT
Is it worth driving an 8 speed model to see if it is better ? Different engine but the 8 speed Aston vanquish was considered far superior to the 6 speed purely on the basis of the gearbox,both zf I think.
If not it wouldn’t make sense to me to change for a facelift.
Not sure about the other options ,you would enjoy any of them probably so it boils down to your man maths.
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Post by alf on Jan 3, 2018 17:15:40 GMT
I could do with finding a friend of a friend with a QF for a proper go - if I absolutely love it, it sways the decision towards staying in the current car while saving pennies. But if it's not much more desirable to me, and if QF values hold up, I think I'll get another XFR in the meantime because I can see it being another 3 years from now before they are much below £30k.
I have no interest in becoming what the Bookatrack forums used to term a "GJOB" (garage jewellery owning bastard). I love driving an amazing car every day, and have no interest in driving an average one with a good one depreciating in the garage. The thing with super saloons is that they do nothing badly - comfortable when needed, amazingly well equipped, stunning hifi - it's not exactly a bad place to be, and as Martin suggested when I bought it, it has spoiled other vehicles for me, to an extent. Most seem both poorly refined, and incredibly slow, by comparison.
Not convinced on the "future classic" thing either. Anyone recall what happened to large engined saloons and hot hatches when the last recession struck? VW were trying to offload new R32's at one point for £17k, and that was a supposed "depreciation proof" car. The top end has gone crazy, that has dragged up all Ferrari's and 911's and so on, but I think the less rare/perfect ones will drop back, and the XFR seems off most people's super-saloon radar. The bigger saloons (M5, E63, XJ, etc) seem to lose value much more than the 3-series sized ones to the extent there is a crossover in SH values, which is daft IMHO. We'll see what happens to fast car values if Brexit is a disaster, Corbyn gets in on the back of it, oil prices go back up, there is a war somewhere, etc etc. It may not be pretty but it's a great opportunity if in a safe job with some savings - last time I got made redundant and could not benefit!
So vote Labour :-)
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 3, 2018 21:49:08 GMT
I love driving an amazing car every day, and have no interest in driving an average one with a good one depreciating in the garage. So, buy a newer car but make sure it has all the toys you want (radar cruise as previously mentioned etc) and also that it is significantly newer with a lot less miles; life's for living and if you are getting concerned about the current car, take your time to look around to get the right replacement. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 4, 2018 11:37:02 GMT
I wouldn't bother with the last of the line XFRs when the XJRs now fall into a similar price range. The XJR is a better car (better chassis than the XFR, more power, less weight, beautiful interior) and barely any bigger in the grand scheme of things. used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2825032Just before Christmas, a couple of 16 plate cars went through the JLR network at low 40s But the XFR is quite a pretty car and the XJR is an absolute munter. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 4, 2018 11:40:06 GMT
I love driving an amazing car every day, and have no interest in driving an average one with a good one depreciating in the garage. So, buy a newer car but make sure it has all the toys you want (radar cruise as previously mentioned etc) and also that it is significantly newer with a lot less miles; life's for living and if you are getting concerned about the current car, take your time to look around to get the right replacement. Agreed. Patience is a virtue.
If you don't need the cash from the old one for the new one and you still have the old one when you find the new one, just palm the old one off to a decent indy on commission like I did with the M135i and the M5. The difference in your pocket is worth the wait.
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Post by chipbutty on Jan 4, 2018 11:40:25 GMT
To the visually impaired....
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 4, 2018 11:44:28 GMT
I think the XJR, particularly in dark colours, pisses all over the German offerings for looks and presence.
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 4, 2018 12:07:18 GMT
Not sure any of the luxo-barges are particularly all-round good looking: front of the S-class not as nice as the rear; 7-series front end is generally unpleasant, the current A8 has a front end that needs to be crashed to improve it and the rear of the XJR takes some imagination to be even a Poundland calendar photograph for January.
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 4, 2018 13:10:17 GMT
I think the XJR, particularly in dark colours, pisses all over the German offerings for looks and presence. I wasn't making a comparative judgement. Simply an objective one. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 4, 2018 13:20:56 GMT
To the visually impaired.... The worst part of it is that the XJ range of cars has included some real beauties by saloon car standards. But even a boggo XJ40 on steels beats the current model at a stroll for elegance and style, and always will.
The shape is anodyne and manages to look both sleek yet somehow portly which is odd and means it requires huge alloys to look well proportioned, at which point it risks to look vulgar. That would be bearable but the detailing is just so cack-handed. The headlamps come from a car several sizes smaller and are a total mismatch for the snouty grille, the rear lights are horrible, the C-pillar treatment a mistake from the start that has never aged into acceptability (and was presumably added to fix some perceived flaw in the basic shape) and the rear numberplate would have been better mounted on the tailgate and not in the bumper.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 4, 2018 15:54:02 GMT
To the visually impaired.... The worst part of it is that the XJ range of cars has included some real beauties by saloon car standards. But even a boggo XJ40 on steels beats the current model at a stroll for elegance and style, and always will.
The shape is anodyne and manages to look both sleek yet somehow portly which is odd and means it requires huge alloys to look well proportioned, at which point it risks to look vulgar. That would be bearable but the detailing is just so cack-handed. The headlamps come from a car several sizes smaller and are a total mismatch for the snouty grille, the rear lights are horrible, the C-pillar treatment a mistake from the start that has never aged into acceptability (and was presumably added to fix some perceived flaw in the basic shape) and the rear numberplate would have been better mounted on the tailgate and not in the bumper.
All I can say is; don't give up the day job and apply for a post as a car designer!  Oh and : www.specsavers.co.uk/ |
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 4, 2018 16:40:10 GMT
The worst part of it is that the XJ range of cars has included some real beauties by saloon car standards. But even a boggo XJ40 on steels beats the current model at a stroll for elegance and style, and always will.
The shape is anodyne and manages to look both sleek yet somehow portly which is odd and means it requires huge alloys to look well proportioned, at which point it risks to look vulgar. That would be bearable but the detailing is just so cack-handed. The headlamps come from a car several sizes smaller and are a total mismatch for the snouty grille, the rear lights are horrible, the C-pillar treatment a mistake from the start that has never aged into acceptability (and was presumably added to fix some perceived flaw in the basic shape) and the rear numberplate would have been better mounted on the tailgate and not in the bumper.
All I can say is; don't give up the day job and apply for a post as a car designer! Oh and : www.specsavers.co.uk/I have 20/20 vision as it happens. And it tells me that the XJ is a dog of a design. I thought that back in 2010 or whenever it was the design was first inflicted on an unsuspecting world and the passing years have not mellowed that view. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 4, 2018 16:46:19 GMT
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Post by alf on Jan 4, 2018 17:44:13 GMT
I love the XJ - I have yet to seriously look into how much wider/longer than my old-model XF it is. I don't really want bigger, though the lack of hassle in driving/parking a larger car than I am used to has been one of the biggest revelations with the XFR.
I would assume an XJR would be more to run, in servicing/parts, just because of pricing policy, and it would look even more silly outside my small house, but the XJ interior especially is absolutely gorgeous. Indeed stepping down from my current leather dash, B&W hifi, air con seats with more adjustment than you can wave a stick at, etc is one of the concerns with the Alfa!
There is also a school of thought (in my crazy mind anyway) that says I should have a C63 for a few years, and an M3, and the Alfa, and so on, just to have tried things, and different marques. Mercedes appeals most in this way as I have had very little contact with them, ever, I've barely been in one.
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Post by michael on Jan 4, 2018 18:04:34 GMT
Mercedes leave me cold. Very rarely do I find myself wanting one. I noticed a black XJR in a company car park I passed today which had previously had a run of XFRs. It did look good and I would bet you wouldn’t give the size a second thought after a few hours behind the wheel. Not sure why it matters what it looks like on your drive.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 4, 2018 19:59:58 GMT
Well I’m pleased he and I are in the side of good taste then.  |
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Post by Stuntman on Jan 4, 2018 21:46:12 GMT
Keep it and buy something else (car or non car) to sooth your soul then shift the XFR when it goes beyond the point of service cost vs reliability requirement. I agree with the first and third points. Buy something else (car or non car) if you want to. Keep enjoying your lovely car and try not to think about its monetary value. I have mentally written off the value of the Cayman and M3 now that they are nearly 12 and nearly 9 respectively and will continue to enjoy them until they either prove beyond sensible economic repair or my head is completely turned by something else. |
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