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Post by johnc on Dec 4, 2017 10:52:44 GMT
Well, at last I had a go in one of these at the weekend and far from being a defining moment I now just feel a bit confused.
The first thing I noticed was that in comfort setting it was firmer than my car in Sport although it felt more in contact with the road if that makes any sense. The seats are wonderful and the driving position is just what I am used to as is the rest of the car so there was nothing new for me to explore. In fact this was a bit of a base car so it only had a few extras although HUD was one. I really must make HUD a must have option on my next car.
This car is fast. Really fast! However it has a problem I thought had been largely tackled with the Competition pack - traction. On the roads we were on, it was dry but with dampness in the air which meant that the surface wasn't bone dry. In these conditions, my car would leave an M4 for dead if it was a pedal to the metal moment. I tried it in the M4 in 3rd and all I got was a big increase in revs and a slight sideways movement at the back. The traction control then ruled this in and we moved forward but with the feeling of someone else controlling the throttle. The same thing happened a few times which was a big disappointment. With the speed and the gear higher though the M4 just flies with a real shove in the back but by the number of times I had to back off, it greatest abilities were shown to be at speeds you just couldn't get to on the road. I have no doubt that a dry summer road would have allowed me to enjoy the car a bit more at slower speeds (or maybe the roads I was on were just a bit too greasy) but I came away feeling disappointed. However I will say that the noise from inside is much better than you would expect given the criticism often raised. I could happily live with the exhaust note.
I want to be able to use the power when I want but I don't think I could do that in the M4 for a large part of the year.
Off the motorway the car felt (potentially) too hard to live with on a daily basis - it is a lot harder than my friends E92 M3 which is probably not helped by the 20" wheels and 35 profile tyres. Perhaps with the optional 19" wheels it would have been better. I would need to drive it on my normal roads for a day or two to know how I feel about it but I feel a bit deflated that it didn't match my expectations which were probably too high.
I still have the itch but my head now has the upper hand in the fight with my heart.
EDIT: I meant to mention the gearbox which prior to driving it, I hadn't given any thought to. It feels like a racing box with a bit of an abrupt action at times and in sport all the gear changes could be felt. Again, if you are out for a drive then this all adds to the character of the car but it wasn't exactly the smoothest thing when trundling around in traffic. The changes bang home with the pull of the paddles but part throttle in traffic driving doesn't show the box in the best light. This box is designed to be taken to the red line before the next gear is banged in which might make going to the shops a bit of a pain. Comfort/normal mode is much better and less intrusive and I doubt I would use the Sport settings much. The more I write this the more I think I am probably 15 years too old for an M4. Still want one though! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2017 11:01:20 GMT
I've always maintained that a car's driving pleasure is a factor of how enjoyable it is multiplied by how often you can use it. Sounds like it's pretty low on the latter, but that at least it sounds better inside the car than out!
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Post by Martin on Dec 4, 2017 15:35:06 GMT
Very interesting.
Poor traction would be a complete deal breaker for me, it would be far too annoying / frustrating.
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Post by johnc on Dec 4, 2017 16:08:45 GMT
I used to be able to spin up the rears on my old car in the damp, being RWD but having felt the extra security and traction from 4WD I am going to have an issue with most powerful RWD cars from now on!
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Post by Martin on Dec 4, 2017 16:13:47 GMT
The 330d I test drove had pretty poor traction, despite wider rears and less torque than the 535d which has excellent traction. I’d want 4WD for a similar type of car if it had more power/torque.
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Post by Tim on Dec 4, 2017 16:29:24 GMT
It would spoil the car I think.
It's perhaps one of the downsides resulting from the rush to downsized turbomotors - too much torque.
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Post by johnc on Dec 4, 2017 19:45:03 GMT
Maybe the next M4 will do the same as the M5 and give it a 4WD system which won't compromise on the driving experience.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 10:06:41 GMT
I dislike gearboxes with built in crash, having been driven on track in an early Gallardo. It's not necessary and is either poor engineering/programming or done to emphasise the car's 'untameable' power. I would guess the latter with the M4, judging by the typical thick-of-neck buyer.
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Post by johnc on Dec 5, 2017 10:28:43 GMT
I read somewhere that BMW are considering dropping the DCT box in favour of a beefed up ZF 8 speed because the latter is so much smoother and handles almost any other situation just as well as the DCT. It probably won't happen until the next M4 in about 3 years time.
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Post by franki68 on Dec 5, 2017 10:49:54 GMT
interesting about the lack of traction on the competition pack
Was supposed to sort that ,it was a huge issue on the standard cars.
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 5, 2017 12:18:18 GMT
You need to look at the Alfa Giulia QF. I'd be in one like a shot if I was looking at M3's. Having read numerous reviews (I've got a real thing for the QF) it should resolve nearly all the concerns you've had with the M4. There's not much you can do with 500hp and rwd though but it wouldn't put me off.
What tyres does the M4 have? Having switched to PS4's I can imagine it would tie the car down significantly.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 5, 2017 14:04:51 GMT
Coast2Coast is suggesting up to £10k off a Quadrifoglio...should help with the depreciation.
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Post by johnc on Dec 5, 2017 14:21:10 GMT
What tyres does the M4 have? Having switched to PS4's I can imagine it would tie the car down significantly. They were Michelins of some sort but I didn't look closely enough to see what kind. |
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Post by johnc on Dec 5, 2017 14:23:57 GMT
interesting about the lack of traction on the competition pack Was supposed to sort that ,it was a huge issue on the standard cars. The salesman said it was much better than the original cars but you really noticed it when pushing hard in the dry. He basically said that 450hp and RWD was always going to need care in the damp and wet. He did then try to sell me on a new 4WD M5 without really taking in to consideration that it was merely twice the price! |
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Post by Martin on Dec 5, 2017 14:24:34 GMT
Coast2Coast is suggesting up to £10k off a Quadrifoglio...should help with the cost of replacing tyres every few weeks FYP I can see the appeal, but I suspect the reality of living with one would annoy me after a while and it’s the wrong type of car for me anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 15:05:12 GMT
You'd need to up the tyre budget as well...
EDIT: Didn't see the fix - D'oh! |
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Post by Tim on Dec 5, 2017 16:52:14 GMT
I can't stop myself looking at the previous shape M5s at the moment - £35k gets you about 3 years old with fairly low miles.
550BHP through the rear wheels though, how good are they going to be at putting that down?
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Post by Andy C on Dec 5, 2017 23:28:20 GMT
Coast2Coast is suggesting up to £10k off a Quadrifoglio...should help with the cost of replacing tyres every few weeks FYP I can see the appeal, but I suspect the reality of living with one would annoy me after a while and it’s the wrong type of car for me anyway. How come ? No estate version ? |
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Post by Martin on Dec 6, 2017 7:45:13 GMT
FYP I can see the appeal, but I suspect the reality of living with one would annoy me after a while and it’s the wrong type of car for me anyway. How come ? No estate version ? No, practicality isn’t the problem, although rear legroom could be an issue. Whilst I’d like to think I’d be able to enjoy driving it, the reality is the vast majority of my driving is dual carriageway / motorway / congested A roads, so comfort, refinement and range are what’s really important. I just need to make sure there continues to be something more enjoyable to drive in the garage. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 9:56:50 GMT
Haven't fully read it yet, but the M4 CS is joint last in Autocar's best Driver's'es Car this week. Horribly untrustworthy on track ('close to undriveable' in the wet according to Prosser), seems to be the verdict, but happier on the road when not near its limits.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 6, 2017 11:00:27 GMT
I can't stop myself looking at the previous shape M5s at the moment - £35k gets you about 3 years old with fairly low miles. 550BHP through the rear wheels though, how good are they going to be at putting that down? Not very from personal experience. The Gorilla will shake its arse at the merest hint of dampness; in the dry with DSC as "off" as it can be the car will stand still and spin up its rears. These cars are all big and heavy compared to the cars of old and to just match performance they need additional power, thus resulting in the scenario we have where the car has the power and torque to overcome its traction but also the inertia to make that less than comfortable on the public road. I said elsewhere there's more fun to be had on a 250 2-stroke with 60bhp than on a 172bhp litre-bike; you'd have more fun in a Polo 1.2 than an M-car but probably feel less comfortable and less of your life's achievement whilst doing so. What you need is an E92 M3 or an E46 M3, the latter which has only a few less torques despite giving away the best part of 800cc. |
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Post by Tim on Dec 6, 2017 11:08:21 GMT
Cheers Jeff
I'm not entirely sure why I've been looking at the M5, maybe because the E92 doesn't really seem a performance advance over the E39 I have (400BHP) and part of me thinks I just wouldn't get enough out of the E92 in normal, i.e. not chasing the redline, driving.
I'll have to get myself a test drive to see.
Could be that I'm just getting old and lazy as well!
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 6, 2017 14:16:00 GMT
How come ? No estate version ? No, practicality isn’t the problem, although rear legroom could be an issue. And the Quadrifoglio isn't available with the split/fold rear seats that you can get on lesser Giulias (suggesting there is some important additional bracing going on there), which further impacts practicality.
They also don't let you have a sunroof on one.
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 6, 2017 16:04:42 GMT
That'll be the Carbon fibre roof!
I'm also waisting too much time looking at youtube vids of E46 M3's and turning one into a fast road/track car
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 7, 2017 0:20:39 GMT
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 7, 2017 9:12:27 GMT
Damn that's a peach. Love Cinnamon but I'd rip out the front seats and put buckets in, put AP brakes on, Bilstein dampers and a few small mods. If funds allowed I'd cover the buckets in Cinnamon as don't really like the stripped race car look.
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Post by Stuntman on Dec 7, 2017 21:03:50 GMT
I think that E46 is rather overpriced.
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Post by Stuntman on Dec 7, 2017 21:08:00 GMT
I'm not entirely sure why I've been looking at the M5, maybe because the E92 doesn't really seem a performance advance over the E39 I have (400BHP) and part of me thinks I just wouldn't get enough out of the E92 in normal, i.e. not chasing the redline, driving. I'll have to get myself a test drive to see. Could be that I'm just getting old and lazy as well! You're probably right about the E92. I seem to remember reading a review from about 2008 or 2009 that suggested that the E90/E92 was really good, really sharp and a much more serious driver's car if you were 'on it', but relatively ordinary when you weren't, compared to an E39 M5. Obviously I don't have the E39 as a reference point but I would certainly say that my E90 has really grown on me and I enjoy it at all speeds. It's a serious car all right. |
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 7, 2017 21:12:47 GMT
I think that E46 is rather overpriced. It doesn’t seem too bad compared to the few others for sale on PH. It does look lovely. |
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 8, 2017 0:33:27 GMT
I think that E46 is rather overpriced. Nope. It’s about right. I’ve got my eye on a 98k mile CS at just shy of £20k. You have to remember M3 lovers are not rational when they’ve decided where the market is. The E9x ones will be mad money in 5 years time: can’t get that engine in owt else. The current one is just a tweaked standard N55: it’ll struggle to be seen as a genuine M car as time passes. |
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