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Post by alf on Mar 27, 2017 13:48:26 GMT
Quite a surprise! www.evo.co.uk/bmw/3-series...e=newsletter&tpid=40164157053 I'm sure the BMW is a better ownership proposition in most regards and will outsell the Alfa hand over fist, but you have to say this is some step up from Alfa. Ferraris have been vastly better cars over the last 20 or so years than they used to, and it looks like Fiat group are actually capable of spreading the love given what has happened to Maserati and now Alfa. Alfa have done very well to have such a rapid 2-litre petrol as well, when plenty of brands have a 2 litre petrol you'd struggle to pick over the diesel. A Quadrifoglio will be mine one day - but not new or nearly new, for sure!! The combination of RWD, decent ride, superb (and playful) handling when pressing on, ZF box, and so on was designed for me, though petrol prices would need to be a lot higher than they are now for me to want to lose the current engine.
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Post by PG on Mar 27, 2017 14:13:50 GMT
I am sure the BMW forums are already ablaze...........with the view that either the sky is falling, the universe will go into meltdown or that EVO are just plain wrong.
The more I read about the Giulia, the better it sounds.
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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 27, 2017 14:33:13 GMT
When's the Sportwagon being launched?
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Post by johnc on Mar 27, 2017 14:42:45 GMT
It is quite understandable that someone could come along and make a car which is a better drive than a BMW, given that BMW have moved to electric steering, kept runflat tyres and have probably to some extent rested on their laurels given the historical dominance.
As with most of these things, it is about degrees of excellence rather than major differences and even if the Alfa is a slightly more enjoyable car to drive (for journalists who push cars harder than most owners ever will, on roads which are carefully chosen) , it will be some time before Joe Public is persuaded that it is a better buy than the BMW. Alfa will probably have to discount a lot, to gain enough interest to put large numbers of the cars on the road but the Quadrifoglio is certainly a very interesting prospect from the enthusiasts point of view.
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Post by Tim on Mar 27, 2017 15:46:47 GMT
I've been quite disappointed in the steering of my 'new' 320 - at this time of year its lifelessness and total lack of feedback is a worry - you're relying on the flashing light to tell you that you're sliding more than any feeling through the wheel. It can't be a coincidence that BMW dropped their ultimate driving machine slogan quite a while ago - most people don't care, they're just buying into a brand.
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Post by Big Blue on Mar 27, 2017 21:23:06 GMT
BMW will start worrying when you go on Autotrader and there are 39,000 used Alfa's on there as opposed to under 2,000 as there are now.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 28, 2017 11:59:40 GMT
When's the Sportwagon being launched? I was told "never" by the Alfa brand person I spoke to on the basis that the Stelvio caters to that market instead because "no-one buys normal estates anymore".
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 28, 2017 12:02:25 GMT
My wife and I both really liked the Giulia but the pricing is ambitious and I am much too wary, as a private punter, of the potential depreciation.
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Post by johnc on Mar 28, 2017 12:23:36 GMT
I've been quite disappointed in the steering of my 'new' 320 - at this time of year its lifelessness and total lack of feedback is a worry - you're relying on the flashing light to tell you that you're sliding more than any feeling through the wheel. It can't be a coincidence that BMW dropped their ultimate driving machine slogan quite a while ago - most people don't care, they're just buying into a brand. Check that your tyre pressures are accurate since it is easy to lose feel when the tyres are over-inflated by only a lb or two. I can certainly feel my car moving about underneath me and I know what it's doing but you don't get the weighting differences through the wheel that a hydraulic system would give you, so one of the sensory interactions is removed. Try an Audi though and you will think your steering is telepathic by comparison.
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Post by Tim on Mar 28, 2017 12:35:45 GMT
I've been quite disappointed in the steering of my 'new' 320 - at this time of year its lifelessness and total lack of feedback is a worry - you're relying on the flashing light to tell you that you're sliding more than any feeling through the wheel. It can't be a coincidence that BMW dropped their ultimate driving machine slogan quite a while ago - most people don't care, they're just buying into a brand. Check that your tyre pressures are accurate since it is easy to lose feel when the tyres are over-inflated by only a lb or two. I can certainly feel my car moving about underneath me and I know what it's doing but you don't get the weighting differences through the wheel that a hydraulic system would give you, so one of the sensory interactions is removed. Try an Audi though and you will think your steering is telepathic by comparison. I'll give that a go next Monday after the new tyres are fitted.......
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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 28, 2017 14:48:37 GMT
You might end up chasing something that isn't there Tim. I've given up with our 320. If you put it into Sport it helps the complete deadness at the straight ahead but apply any lock and its just weight, not feel. Its a mixture of EPS, though you'll be glad to hear that Porsche don't seem to struggle here, 19" wheels and a steering wheel that's over stuffed.
That you've also got a 370z probably just highlights the failings with the 3series
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Post by Tim on Mar 28, 2017 15:33:52 GMT
I'm not sure that Sport mode actually adds any weight either. Hell the M5 is way more feelsome and that has recirculating ball steering which, if memory serves, was always criticised as a poor relation to rack & pinion. I sometimes feel that I'm just hanging on tight in the 370
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Post by Martin on Mar 28, 2017 15:46:30 GMT
The steering feel in mine isn't as good as it was in the 520d, but the other cars I tried were worse apart from the XF which was very similar. It doesn't feel great after driving the Boxster with its hydraulic system, but you soon get used to it and most of my BMW miles are on dual carriageways or motorways (unfortunately).
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Post by Alex on Mar 28, 2017 18:56:27 GMT
I'm surprised they didn't pick up on the 2ltr petrol having only 197bhp rather than the 276 offered in the Stelvio that featured on the next page.
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Post by LandieMark on Mar 28, 2017 19:03:19 GMT
Yes, the new Alfa is very high on the want list.
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Post by Tim on Mar 29, 2017 8:59:26 GMT
I'm surprised they didn't pick up on the 2ltr petrol having only 197bhp rather than the 276 offered in the Stelvio that featured on the next page. I expect there'll be a 276BHP Giulia along shortly to fill the gap towards the QF.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 9:48:58 GMT
Autocar love it too, though place it just below the C63, same star rating. Weighs 1,700 kgs, rather than the claimed 1,580 - I do wish the manufacturers would man up and be honest on this.
Residuals are, I suppose, finger in the air estimates for a new car from a resurgent manufacturer, but the assessment is not great at present. List is £61k, as tested £73.5k, expected after 3 yrs, £26k. I'd hope it would be better.
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Post by Tim on Mar 29, 2017 9:52:01 GMT
That's not really all that far behind the M3/M4 though is it? It doesn't seem too tragic for a brand with little current history of producing exciting stuff compared with one that has 3 decades to call on. Plus it means the car might be affordable for us normal people at 3 or 4 years old
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Post by Martin on Mar 29, 2017 10:43:53 GMT
There is a 280ps version listed on the discount sites.
You can already at get at least 14% / £8,500 off the QF, plus 0% finance and 3 years servicing, which helps the total cost considerably.
It will make it cheaper than an M3 with Competition Pack, which in my spec would be £62k and a decent spec Alfa would be £55k.
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Post by alf on Mar 29, 2017 14:03:53 GMT
I'm pretty sure the Giulia is available with the 2 litre 280PS engine indeed - that is the one currently doing the rounds, the 197 bhp must be a typo or refer to the diesel....
I had a short look at lease offers for the QF - they were abysmal - miles, miles higher than the C63 rates I came close to taking up two years ago. They are not backing it at all. If anyone does buy them, they may be SH bargains yet.... I bought the GTA new at a discount of over 30%, but that was near the end of its product cycle.... Its possible all dealers will need to shift some, and may discount heavily, unofficially. The dad of a school friend of mine bought an Audi V8 saloon many moons ago at a massive discount as he knew a local dealer needed to shift one, and they were not selling well....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 22:51:31 GMT
That's not really all that far behind the M3/M4 though is it? It doesn't seem too tragic for a brand with little current history of producing exciting stuff compared with one that has 3 decades to call on. Plus it means the car might be affordable for us normal people at 3 or 4 years old Shows how fast the Lotus Carlton was all those years back too
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Post by Alex on Mar 30, 2017 10:40:49 GMT
I'm pretty sure the Giulia is available with the 2 litre 280PS engine indeed - that is the one currently doing the rounds, the 197 bhp must be a typo or refer to the diesel.... I had a short look at lease offers for the QF - they were abysmal - miles, miles higher than the C63 rates I came close to taking up two years ago. They are not backing it at all. If anyone does buy them, they may be SH bargains yet.... I bought the GTA new at a discount of over 30%, but that was near the end of its product cycle.... Its possible all dealers will need to shift some, and may discount heavily, unofficially. The dad of a school friend of mine bought an Audi V8 saloon many moons ago at a massive discount as he knew a local dealer needed to shift one, and they were not selling well.... It's the residuals that kill it against the Mercedes, which is a shame. It may be that you'll need to wait a year or two before Alfa start doing some decent discounts on it.
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Post by grampa on Mar 30, 2017 13:39:44 GMT
I'm pretty sure the Giulia is available with the 2 litre 280PS engine indeed - that is the one currently doing the rounds, the 197 bhp must be a typo or refer to the diesel.... I had a short look at lease offers for the QF - they were abysmal - miles, miles higher than the C63 rates I came close to taking up two years ago. They are not backing it at all. Therein lies Afla's biggest problem - I'm sure a lot of business users would choose an Alfa, even if just to get away from the sea of BMWs and Audis in the car park, but find they're out of budget - vicious circle - because not many are around, people see them as a left field choice so aren't prepared to buy which causes big depreciation which then sets lease or contract hire deals at high levels.
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Post by chipbutty on Mar 31, 2017 15:13:56 GMT
To break into this market - if they are really serious about it, then they should be subventing their deals to make them competitive to get their cars in the market.
This would mean taking a loss on every unit, but it's the only way I can see to get the ball rolling. Then, as they start to pick up volume over the coming years, they have a viable business model.
If they don't do this, then surely they will be stuck in the vicious circle alluded to above. People will not pay another £100 + a month for a 4 cylinder saloon that is a teeny bit better looking and a teeny bit better to drive than the established marques.
The Germans have this sector sewn up tighter than a really tightly sewn up thing
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 3, 2017 13:06:47 GMT
To break into this market - if they are really serious about it, then they should be subventing their deals to make them competitive to get their cars in the market. The Germans have this sector sewn up tighter than a really tightly sewn up thing I refer you to my earlier post...... BMW will start worrying when you go on Autotrader and there are 39,000 used Alfa's on there as opposed to under 2,000 as there are now.
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Post by Tim on Apr 3, 2017 13:25:41 GMT
It doesn't matter anyway - in 6 months time the mags will realise their mistake and the natural, German headed, order will be resumed. We've been here too many times in the past to expect anything different.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 4, 2017 18:18:26 GMT
I did a quick configure on the Alfa site and a QF to my liking is about £65k. Their finance calculator gives a GFV of just £22k after 48 months, which I note assume an annual mileage of only 6k. So if you make that a more normal 10k, I think there will be not any change from a GFV of £20k. They are also suggesting 3.0% APR, not 0%.
Stick that through a calculator with eg a 10% discount and a £6k deposit over 48 months and 3% and you get £770 pcm. Even on 0%, it's still north of £675.
That's punchy. Almost double what I pay for the 440i.
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Post by Sav on Apr 8, 2017 10:17:52 GMT
I’ve seen a few Giulia’s now, both in standard and Quadrifoglio guises. It looks terrific, and the standard models look great. I feared that the Quadrifoglio would make the lowly models look weedy, but it doesn’t.
One problem could be the location of dealerships. My local Alfa dealer isn’t really its own dealership; it is shared with Fiat and Jeep. I understand convenience of such an arrangement, but if Alfa Romeo wants to market a range of sporting, premium cars (even ditching hatchbacks) – positioning the brand alongside Fiat Tipo’s and Jeep’s might not be the best idea.
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Post by Tim on Apr 10, 2017 10:11:59 GMT
I’ve seen a few Giulia’s now, both in standard and Quadrifoglio guises. It looks terrific, and the standard models look great. I feared that the Quadrifoglio would make the lowly models look weedy, but it doesn’t. One problem could be the location of dealerships. My local Alfa dealer isn’t really its own dealership; it is shared with Fiat and Jeep. I understand convenience of such an arrangement, but if Alfa Romeo wants to market a range of sporting, premium cars (even ditching hatchbacks) – positioning the brand alongside Fiat Tipo’s and Jeep’s might not be the best idea. There are only 2 dealers in Scotland - Inverness and Glasgow - so that's going to limit their appeal and sales up here I suspect.
A mate has recently bought a brand new Giulietta but he must be in the tiny minority who are prepared to use an independent for servicing, albeit it's a specialist that uses proper Alfa parts to ensure the warranty is still alive.
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