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Post by ChrisM on Oct 23, 2017 8:26:41 GMT
Predictions in the other thread please
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 31, 2017 11:47:27 GMT
No one commented on the 4th title win for Hamilton? Was it that dull for all the non- tifosi as well, then?  |
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Post by ChrisM on Oct 31, 2017 13:50:47 GMT
He didn't win it the way he wanted (?) - ultimately you have to wait for the season end to see the real picture...
a bit like when Leicester won the Premiership.. it may have been down to Tottenham making it a mathematical certainty, but by the end of the season they won by something like 10 points, one of the largest margins ever.
Oh - the next "challenge" will be to see if Vettel can hang on to the runner-up spot, Bottas is getting very close to him.......
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Post by Sav on Oct 31, 2017 22:35:46 GMT
One could just sense something was going to happen between Vettel and Verstappen, by virtue of them both sharing the front row. Once it was Vettel who was the wonder kid, boldly making moves. Now it’s Verstappen doing it, and to dazzling effect. I have no proof of this, but I think Verstappen is in Vettel’s head. He dared not to run the Dutchman off the track in turn 1, and let him have the inside for turn two. If Hamilton had been on the outside in turn one, would Vettel have allowed him to sneak by?
Vettel’s contact with Hamilton in turn three was a tad Formula Ford. It’s not like it was side-to-side contact, it was front wing to right rear wheel contact and a basic case of ramming Hamilton up the rear. It wasn’t intentional, but was extremely clumsy. Hamilton was always going to be slightly delayed getting back to the gas, by following Verstappen exiting the turn.
Hamilton undoubtedly had an easier time of things in Malaysia and Japan, with Ferrari’s reliability woes. However, there have been some fantastic battles between both drivers, when Hamilton rose to a new level and came out victorious. In Spain and Spa, Hamilton demonstrated an intelligence and savviness to his race craft. We know Hamilton can overtake very well and perform superbly in the wet. However, the Belgian GP saw Hamilton deliberately lift-off to ensure Vettel would stall-out down the Kemmel Straight. It was a risk, because Vettel could have gained enough momentum to get past, but he didn’t. I’m not sure Hamilton would have deployed that kind of tactic in previous years. I’ve mentioned this before, but Hamilton’s qualifying in Monza was on another level. He was 1.2 seconds quicker than the second-placed car, and over two seconds compared to Bottas. Generally speaking, Hamilton has been consistent, blindingly fast and took the right risks when fighting for the title.
Perhaps Ferrari should have made more of an effort to get Verstappen. Max and both Ferrari drivers have had their moments; one could argue that Max’s eagerness has cost Ferrari a few races, but Ferrari need to think about the future. By signing Vettel for another three years, it effectively rules out Verstappen going to the Scuderia during that period. I’m sure other teams will be looking at him, despite Max also signing for Red Bull for another three seasons. If Red Bull do partner with Honda and the engine is still a dogs dinner, I’m not sure Verstappen would accept the pain that Alonso has had to endure.
It was a pleasure to watch Hamilton and Alonso duke it out again. That was two drivers showing great skills and spatial awareness to race that hard whilst not making any contact. Alonso had several opportunities to slither into Hamilton in those 90-degree corner sequences, but he just left Hamilton enough room. The etiquette from the underpowered cars seemed to be to give up the position into the braking zone after the DRS zone. Not Alonso, who drove in deep to steal the position again. Kudos to Hamilton for not just presuming Alonso had already gifted him the position. It’s evident to see the McLaren’s decent mechanical balance, it’s just a travesty about the donkey in the back and such an outstanding driver getting overtaken halfway down a straight.
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 31, 2017 23:00:24 GMT
It was a good overtake by Verstappen and the Vettel title chance was lost in Malaysia so Hamilton wasn't really under pressure for the past month or so. So now Da Ham has caught Vettel up in terms of titles: which one will get to five first?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 13:40:42 GMT
I would expect Max with his father's experience, to have a bail out clause and as far as I know Kimi only has a single year contract with the Scuderia Ferrari. Having watched Max deal with Seb recently I expect Seb to fall to bits should or 'when' Max gets to Ferrari. The odd elephant in the room is the new engine rules but they are a way off yet so not much in the way of comfort for Honda powered teams. Would Ferrari buy kimi out of his contract if Max was available? Does a bear etc? There has been a certain amount of conjecture about Daniel Ricciardo and Ferrari but I cannot see it, Max is the real target.
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Post by Alex on Nov 1, 2017 13:50:17 GMT
It was a good overtake by Verstappen and the Vettel title chance was lost in Malaysia so Hamilton wasn't really under pressure for the past month or so. So now Da Ham has caught Vettel up in terms of titles: which one will get to five first? It could go either way. The Ferrari has been, arguably, the better car this year and has been let down by driver error and mechanical reliability rather than by design. The Mercedes has had a few design niggles, notably struggling for grip on high downforce circuits or when in the dirty air of a car in front. In many ways that makes Hamilton's title win all the more remarkable. There have been races when Ferrari and Red Bull have been evidently quicker yet he pulled it off through consistency and great driving. However if Ferrari give Seb an even more superior car next year it could easily go his way. But Mercedes are not resting on their laurels and they know they have to improve next year. A fifth consecutive constructors title is not an inevitability and they know it. With Red Bull being on the cusp of another great car too, and Max looking like he's about to be a regular race winner, we could have an absolutely monumental three horse race next year with three great drivers in three great cars. That's something F1's been crying out for for years. and I agree about Max to Ferrari being potentially unsettling for Seb. Ricciardo, like Kimi and Bottas is more of a good second driver but Max has potential to be top dog in whatever team he races for in 2019 and beyond. |
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 1, 2017 13:58:27 GMT
The thing with Verstappen is that he has a big fan base and could be a popular merchandise seller for the young generation of fans, something Vettel is outshone by Kimi on by some huuuuge margin. If Max could be a Ferrari driver he's shown he can win races AND sell stuff so he'd be Marchionne's dream ticket.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 22:09:02 GMT
What about Carlos Sainz Jr? Only a little way into his stay at Renault and he is proving to be a challenge to the Hulk.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 2, 2017 10:43:47 GMT
What about Carlos Sainz Jr? Only a little way into his stay at Renault and he is proving to be a challenge to the Hulk. On a personal level I hope Sainz shines and gets a good run at some wins and a title in the future. His dad was a fabulous ambassador for motorsport in Rallying, could have been a professional squash player and is affable as well as driven. Hope to see Jr. in a red car some day. |
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Post by Tim on Nov 2, 2017 10:47:10 GMT
One could just sense something was going to happen between Vettel and Verstappen, by virtue of them both sharing the front row. Once it was Vettel who was the wonder kid, boldly making moves. Now it’s Verstappen doing it, and to dazzling effect. I have no proof of this, but I think Verstappen is in Vettel’s head. He dared not to run the Dutchman off the track in turn 1, and let him have the inside for turn two. If Hamilton had been on the outside in turn one, would Vettel have allowed him to sneak by?
I think the cause of this may be due to their differing positions in the championship and the fact that Verstappen still has that short term 'fuck you' outlook to these maneouvres wheras Vettel has grown out of that (as Max inevitably will).
I get the impression that Red Bull are quite relaxed about their drivers competitiveness with each other whereas if Max went to Ferrari he might not be allowed quite as much freedom to be aggressive with his team mate. Only time will tell though, Vettel may be allowed to block potential teammates anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 9:28:13 GMT
Seb has a history of not coping well with high quality team mates, Mark initially and then Danny R who wiped the floor with him. I cannot see Seb coping with Max in the same car/team. He is just too fragile.
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Post by Sav on Nov 7, 2017 22:38:11 GMT
2017 saw the front-running cars with various deficiencies respectively. That can happen with big regulation changes, it was the first time in years that the front running teams built cars with fairly split philosophies and priorities. The last time I can recall that split was in 2008, where one car would excel at one track, and the other car would excel at the next track. The fascinating aspect is whether those strengths and weaknesses can converge on the track to give us good racing. One could argue it did at Spain and Spa, but not nearly enough. I think the 2018 cars will unfortunately become a lot more finessed and predictable. Therefore, the ability for a team to slightly struggle in qualifying, but come good on Sunday probably won't happen.
I think Alex is right; Ferrari often did have the fastest race car when they were not supposed to. Ferrari should have won Russia, Spain, Spa and potentially China with better strategy. Ferrari still has a car which has better mechanical qualities; the way it stops as the downforce bleeds off, compliance over kerbs and bumps, and the way it accelerates whilst exiting tight turns is fantastic. As Mexico illustrated, those qualities haven’t disappeared. Even in Mexico, the Mercedes’ reluctance to turn into tight turns was still evident.
However, Mercedes masked their deficiencies as the season progressed, mainly with tyre management and traction to an extent – although this still hasn’t been fully solved. At circuits at Suzuka it was almost like they gained more time, a track where they were going to dominate at anyway. Ferrari never quite enjoyed the same downforce/drag balance that Mercedes could enjoy. Mercedes also have an engine setting that allows them to increase their advantage where it matters, in Q3 for pole position. Ferrari improved in some of these areas, but relative to Mercedes, it wasn’t enough, who cemented their strengths.
The Ferrari’s mechanical strengths makes the car’s wet-weather performance all the more puzzling, namely Monza. We never saw how the Ferrari could have performed in Singapore, but the Mercedes suddenly looked brilliant exiting tight turns, something in the dry it struggled with. Perhaps it was a driver difference, because as Bottas got overtaken by Palmer in the Renault; Hamilton was literally seconds a lap faster.
Ferrari admittedly faced a tricky situation with Vettel, but if the latter wanted to move, would he have found himself in the same situation as Alonso? Vettel is a brilliant driver, but without a realistic negotiating hand with another team. Signing him up for another three years might mean they miss out on Verstappen, should things at Red Bull not go well. If I were Marchionne, I would be looking at someone like Sainz. I think he’s outstanding, and Red Bull is lucky to still have him. I know they lacked a seat at Red Bull, but he’s too good to be driving around the midfield. Hopefully Renault can give him something decent in 2018. Imo, Sainz got a tad overlooked when Verstappen was doing his dazzling overtaking in 2015, but Sainz’s fourth place in Singapore 17 is proof enough that he is the real deal. Jeff is right, his dad was a great ambassador for rallying, his Dakar exploits went well as well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 14:28:42 GMT
Max without a 'success' clause at Red Bull is unrealistic and Ferrari will be waiting to pounce should results and reliability not go the right way for Max and his management team. Sainz to Red Bull?
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