|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 19, 2017 9:52:38 GMT
My dad certainly fits that bill, but my general impression is that they are bought by an image-conscious and younger demographic.
I'd guess that up here the split is comfortably more than 50% of SUV buyers are older people - I'm including things like the Vauxhall Mokka in the SUV category.
|
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Oct 19, 2017 12:06:24 GMT
We sell alot of Capturs to older people, they like the size, high up driving position and ease of entry and exit.
|
|
|
|
Post by PG on Oct 19, 2017 12:45:23 GMT
Interesting that in a market where 3 doors are dying, you can get a 3 door SUV - the Evoque, SWB Shogun. Any more? Weren't Audi going to bring out a 3 door jacked up TT?
|
|
|
|
Post by grampa on Oct 23, 2017 9:31:11 GMT
We sell alot of Capturs to older people, they like the size, high up driving position and ease of entry and exit. That was exactly the reason my dad bought his Scenic - the fact that it drove like crap compared to the Mk1 Focus, Alfa 146 and MG Maestro that preceded it seemed not to matter at all. |
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 23, 2017 13:17:05 GMT
We sell alot of Capturs to older people, they like the size, high up driving position and ease of entry and exit. That was exactly the reason my dad bought his Scenic - the fact that it drove like crap compared to the Mk1 Focus, Alfa 146 and MG Maestro that preceded it seemed not to matter at all.
My parents did the same, although they went for the Mitsubishi Space Star as the Scenic test drive (an early Mk1 Scenic) left us all feeling mildly sick! The Renault salesman said even then, in 1999, that the majority of buyers were old folk.
|
|
|
|
Post by alf on Oct 23, 2017 16:33:13 GMT
The Fiesta 3 door may not be dead, but the B Max is - perhaps someone got confused about that? Allegedly the C Max may follow it's demise. A shame as I had tipped the B Max as a contender for my parents, who do want reasonable ease of access and so on, but want something smaller than an SUV.
It seems laughable that car manufacturers could drop 3 door versions of popular cars to avoid tooling costs - when they have spent much of the last few years creating entirely new models to fit every niche known to man. Surely that uses more tooling? Some manufacturers have the following examples of a similar sized / similar platform model in their range: Standard saloon, slightly raised saloon, estate, SUV, coupe, coupe SUV, and ultra high performance derivative. Do we need that? compared to that lot a 3-door hatchback seems like child's play to produce.
None of it makes any sense - the niche models seem to have been a fashion thing where everyone copied each other, now presumably the bean counters are stepping in, too late...
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 23, 2017 16:54:39 GMT
It's a numbers game - a niche has to be big enough to warrant filling, the size of the niche governing whether you fill it using something built off an existing platform or develop something entirely new. The 3 door niche may not fit either scenario.
One thing I did think of - and I have no idea whether this might be an issue or not, so I could be talking utter bollocks - but, with side impact testing and in particular the "pole test" getting ever more stringent, the distance between the A and B pillars may become a factor. The B pillar is generally well reinforced with high strength steel and takes the majority of the forces. Move the B pillar back 6 inches or so and the impact is more on the door skin. Even with a chunky side impact beam in the door the forces are distributed very differently. I guess what I'm saying is that, while it may seem a very simple change between 3 and 5 doors, the engineering may be more costly.
|
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Oct 24, 2017 7:52:14 GMT
On Captur and Clio training, we were told that dropping the 3 door Clio (which only realy sold well in the UK), paid for Captur.
I do wonder with some of the more prestige marques; Audi, BMW and Mercedes whether with the huge amount of models that are very similar if there is a bit of a crossover and they steal sales from each other within the marque.
Ford dropping the B-Max, I'm not surprised, they never sold any and the C-Max; well that sector is dying and people are now buying crossovers instead, I do wonder what will happen to the Scenic.
In the UK 55% of Renault new car registrations are made up of the Captur and Kadjar.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 24, 2017 8:03:33 GMT
I think the Clio is a much better car than the Captur, but the elderly do appreciate the higher driving position.
|
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 24, 2017 9:20:09 GMT
It's a numbers game - a niche has to be big enough to warrant filling, the size of the niche governing whether you fill it using something built off an existing platform or develop something entirely new. The 3 door niche may not fit either scenario. One thing I did think of - and I have no idea whether this might be an issue or not, so I could be talking utter bollocks - but, with side impact testing and in particular the "pole test" getting ever more stringent, the distance between the A and B pillars may become a factor. The B pillar is generally well reinforced with high strength steel and takes the majority of the forces. Move the B pillar back 6 inches or so and the impact is more on the door skin. Even with a chunky side impact beam in the door the forces are distributed very differently. I guess what I'm saying is that, while it may seem a very simple change between 3 and 5 doors, the engineering may be more costly. I'd imagine there is a lot of truth in that. The figures probably stack up more comfortably if the 3 door can be sold at a premium as a coupe and also share parts with a convertible derivative. The other reason a Captur, or any other crossover, is more desirable to produce than a 3 door is that a crossover can charge a premium whereas the 3 door is usually expected to be cheaper. |
|
|
|
Post by grampa on Oct 24, 2017 9:34:51 GMT
that sector is dying and people are now buying crossovers instead, I do wonder what will happen to the Scenic Is the new Scenic on sale yet? - I haven't seen one on the roads - it looks great for that kind of car and very noticable that it has taken on a kind of crossover style - I would have expected it to bring a bit of a boost back to the sector. But it seems, to me at least, very odd that for many non-ethusiast car buyers, the 4X4 is seen as 'posh' which is, I guess the reason that the crossovers do so well. |
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 24, 2017 10:42:42 GMT
Is the new Scenic on sale yet? Yes they are and the look great. |
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Oct 25, 2017 7:38:17 GMT
Interesting that in a market where 3 doors are dying, you can get a 3 door SUV - the Evoque, SWB Shogun. Any more? Weren't Audi going to bring out a 3 door jacked up TT? Probably not for much longer I assume. I don't see a lot of 3 door Evoques TBH. |
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Oct 25, 2017 8:03:49 GMT
Is the new Scenic on sale yet? Yes they are and the look great. Yep and as Michael has said, they are a great looking car and given that they are a newer model than the Kadjar; which when launched 2 years ago was based on the already 2 year old Kumquat, the Scenic is actually a nicer car; in terms of refinement and drive as opposed to the Kadjar, it also has a far nicer interior too. |
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 25, 2017 13:18:51 GMT
Do the seats still come out of a Scenic or have the toned down the difference to make it more car-like?
|
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 25, 2017 13:22:20 GMT
Didn't they fold into the floor on the Scenic (that's what they did on my parents 2005 Grand Scenic)?
I remember they did come out of the Espace though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 25, 2017 13:29:43 GMT
Yes they are and the look great. Yep and as Michael has said, they are a great looking car and given that they are a newer model than the Kadjar; which when launched 2 years ago was based on the already 2 year old Kumquat, the Scenic is actually a nicer car; in terms of refinement and drive as opposed to the Kadjar, it also has a far nicer interior too. Everything I've read has said the refinement on the Qashqai is superior to that of the Kadjar, which is a surprise because as you say they had two years to improve it still further, and failed. |
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Oct 25, 2017 19:43:09 GMT
Do the seats still come out of a Scenic or have the toned down the difference to make it more car-like? No not anymore, they are a 60/40 split, they slide independently as a 60/40 and fold down flat 60/40 too but the load area is higher than the previous gen Scenic. The new Scenic has lost alot of the versatility of the previous one and doesn't offer nearly enough, over a Kadjar. The rear seats in the grand Scenic still fold into the floor. |
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Oct 25, 2017 19:58:10 GMT
Yep and as Michael has said, they are a great looking car and given that they are a newer model than the Kadjar; which when launched 2 years ago was based on the already 2 year old Kumquat, the Scenic is actually a nicer car; in terms of refinement and drive as opposed to the Kadjar, it also has a far nicer interior too. Everything I've read has said the refinement on the Qashqai is superior to that of the Kadjar, which is a surprise because as you say they had two years to improve it still further, and failed. I can't comment on the refinement vs the Kumquat, however I do feel that the Kadjar was almost a quick and cheaply done response to the SUV market, don't get me wrong, it is a good car and is more distinctive looking than the Kumquat, however there are too many rough edges and cut corners, it feels as though Renault have done just enough to make it an aceptable car, it still shouts Nissan (which isn't a bad thing but it isn't that distinguishable from a Nissan on the inside), they could have done a bit more to make it a great car, plus the Nissan switch gear is awful. There is a facelift/new Kadjar out next year, it needs a gas strut for the very heavy bonnet, electric tailgate, Renault heater controls, the bigger R-Link, Renault switchgear for the windows and mirrors, a tidier rear view mirror set up,p and radar cruise, externally it looks fine. I wouldn't be surprised if Renault did it as cost effectively as possible just incase it didn't work for them, now it has done well, it will be good to see a but more investment in the next one. |
|
|
|
Post by grampa on Oct 26, 2017 8:55:07 GMT
Of those kind of cars, from an 'at a distance' look (I'm not really interested), the Peugeot 3008 seems the most appealing and the one that would get my attention for a closer look first. Judging by the number on the road, I'd guess I'm not the only one.
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on Oct 26, 2017 12:26:02 GMT
There is a facelift/new Kadjar out next year, it needs a gas strut for the very heavy bonnet.... I couldn't understand when the Kadjar was launched why it didn't have gas struts on the bonnet; the Captur does, and it's much smaller. It's one of the little things that really p's me off about the Kuga; even in post face-lifted form, it has a big heavy bonnnet but no strut to assist in lifting it; it's really heavy and awkward to raise by hand :-( |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 26, 2017 14:02:19 GMT
The Kadjar does need something to lift it out of its ordinariness. When it came out I liked the look of it, probably more so than the Nissan, but it seems to have just faded into the generic SUV background and dated quite quickly. The Qashqai still retains a freshness even after 3 or 4 years of production. I don't have a problem with the bonnet, I can lift to the finish, as I eat me spinach.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 26, 2017 14:43:14 GMT
There is a facelift/new Kadjar out next year, it needs a gas strut for the very heavy bonnet.... I couldn't understand when the Kadjar was launched why it didn't have gas struts on the bonnet; the Captur does, and it's much smaller. It's one of the little things that really p's me off about the Kuga; even in post face-lifted form, it has a big heavy bonnnet but no strut to assist in lifting it; it's really heavy and awkward to raise by hand :-(
The gas struts on the bonnet of my Fiat Coupe have recently died - not bad that they lasted for 18 years - and is that thing heavy! It's a double-skinned clamshell.
|
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 26, 2017 16:00:41 GMT
What's the clamshell made out of on those? Is it plastic on the outside?
|
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Oct 27, 2017 9:00:37 GMT
The Kadjar does need something to lift it out of its ordinariness. When it came out I liked the look of it, probably more so than the Nissan, but it seems to have just faded into the generic SUV background and dated quite quickly. The Qashqai still retains a freshness even after 3 or 4 years of production. I don't have a problem with the bonnet, I can lift to the finish, as I eat me spinach. I think now with the proliferation of Crossovers, they all seem to just blend into the background, with the exception of the Peugeot which is a great looking car, as is the new Citroen (but I've not seen any on the road so I assume it isn't out yet?) |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 27, 2017 10:56:13 GMT
The Kadjar does need something to lift it out of its ordinariness. When it came out I liked the look of it, probably more so than the Nissan, but it seems to have just faded into the generic SUV background and dated quite quickly. The Qashqai still retains a freshness even after 3 or 4 years of production. I don't have a problem with the bonnet, I can lift to the finish, as I eat me spinach. I think now with the proliferation of Crossovers, they all seem to just blend into the background, with the exception of the Peugeot which is a great looking car, as is the new Citroen (but I've not seen any on the road so I assume it isn't out yet?) It's the rear light treatment that lifts it and gives the 3008 its looks - take them away and you've actually got a fairly ordinary looking SUV. It's quite similar to a Suzuki Vitara. |
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 30, 2017 14:07:27 GMT
What's the clamshell made out of on those? Is it plastic on the outside?
No, it's double skinned in metal. It's a heavy thing to lift without the assistance of the struts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 11:12:24 GMT
Sara loved her Grand Scenics, I think the the NRA statement about guns would be totally accurate with reguard to her car. She did describe the particular colour as being more like metallic sh1t brown but spending most of her time inside did not get overly bothered by it.
|
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Nov 15, 2017 12:35:21 GMT
I was reminded of this thread when walking down my street this morning and was struck by the sheer plethora of SUVs. How many can you count?
Anyone could be forgiven for thinking I lived in some mountainous region with bad roads prone to treacherous weather and abundant snow, rather than central London...
how to upload photos in internet
|
|
|
|
Post by humphreythepug on Nov 15, 2017 18:02:39 GMT
Weybridge in the morning; I lose count of how many Range Rovers/Land Rovers, Cayenne's, Macan's, Audi Q's, BMW X's, etc, the place is awash with them, the new RR Velar is so common it's now boring seeing the thing.
|
|
