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Post by michael on Oct 17, 2017 12:56:58 GMT
I read on Autocar that the VW Scirocco has been axed along with the Audi A3 three door. These join Fiesta, Polo and others in dropping their three door offerings and coupé models in general becoming less and less popular in the face of increasing competition. It seems the majority of manufacturers are now in the SUV business as traditional formats decline in popularity. So, do you think the coupé can ever make a comeback? |
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Post by Tim on Oct 17, 2017 13:06:47 GMT
I think it'll stay as a niche product with occasional cycles where a few come out at once.
The majority of 67 plate cars I've seen have been SUVs of varying sizes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 13:10:52 GMT
Fashions come and go - I hope they return. I'd rather see a Calibra* or a Corrado than any 4x4.
*Other than the bechavved, faux-motorsport one I saw once, which had OPAL (sic) in the banner across the top of its screen...
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Post by michael on Oct 17, 2017 13:15:24 GMT
According to the article the T-Roc is the unofficial replacement of the Scirocco.
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Post by cbeaks1 on Oct 17, 2017 13:21:38 GMT
I read on Autocar that the VW Scirocco has been axed along with the Audi A3 three door. These join Fiesta, Polo and others in dropping their three door offerings and coupé models in general becoming less and less popular in the face of increasing competition. It seems the majority of manufacturers are now in the SUV business as traditional formats decline in popularity. So, do you think the coupé can ever make a comeback? Fiesta 3 door still lives! |
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Post by michael on Oct 17, 2017 13:23:47 GMT
That's good news! Don't know why I thought it had been axed?
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Post by Nelson on Oct 17, 2017 13:27:47 GMT
Apart from the traditional hot-hatches, Golf GTi/R, Focus RS and the like I have never really seen a need for a small 3 door hatch. I guess the more senior driver likes them but they are impractical if you have a small family (one reason why we sold the Mini). Up against smaller SUV's they are just not needed anymore in basic to mid spec guise. Continue with high-spec performance variants, yes please but otherwise I can see the point of a slightly raised driving position and access to the rear (albeit still tight) in something like a Juke or similar.
Keeps 3 doors as performance cars, coupes and cabrio's
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Post by grampa on Oct 17, 2017 13:54:43 GMT
From the Autocar article, "Official word is that the T-Roc small SUV is likely to absorb some of the Scirocco’s sales" On what planet do they think a T-Roc appeals to someone who chose a Scirocco? - I'm hanging on to mine - there's simply nothing nor any sign of anything coming that appeals to me enough to replace it. And anyway, who needs a T-Roc kind of car - I can go off-roading in the Scirocco...  |
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Post by Blarno on Oct 17, 2017 14:12:39 GMT
There is definitely an opening for a small RWD coupe - Toyota have proven that with the GT86. Maybe it's about time we had another Capri?
As long as estate cars continue to be built, I will be happy, because I won't be getting into a faux-roader any time soon.
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Post by Tim on Oct 17, 2017 15:00:44 GMT
I was just reading in CAR mag that the proposal to replace the Nissan 370Z with something akin to their IDX concept car from 2013 has been delayed/cancelled due to finances.
(i'm finding it hard to believe the 370 is nearly 10 years old!)
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 17, 2017 16:06:00 GMT
There is definitely an opening for a small RWD coupe - Toyota have proven that with the GT86. Maybe it's about time we had another Capri? As long as estate cars continue to be built, I will be happy, because I won't be getting into a faux-roader any time soon. +1 to both. I toyed with a GL (a real one that they now call "GLS") but in reality these things are ginormous. The Gorilla does it all. |
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 17, 2017 16:23:20 GMT
Apart from the traditional hot-hatches, Golf GTi/R, Focus RS and the like I have never really seen a need for a small 3 door hatch. I guess the more senior driver likes them but they are impractical if you have a small family (one reason why we sold the Mini). Up against smaller SUV's they are just not needed anymore in basic to mid spec guise. Continue with high-spec performance variants, yes please but otherwise I can see the point of a slightly raised driving position and access to the rear (albeit still tight) in something like a Juke or similar. Keeps 3 doors as performance cars, coupes and cabrio's I agree with all of that. Outside sportscars/coupes etc, only very small city cars merit 3drs.
But I would add that the senior drivers who used to like the three door hatch for the wider-opening door now favour the mini-SUV for its raised seating position. Both my 70-something parents switched from a normal car to an SUV-type vehicle last time they changed car (Countryman and SQ5), as did my father-in-law (Qashqai) and both sets of aunts/uncles (Forester and Duster).
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Post by PG on Oct 17, 2017 17:00:43 GMT
It's pure economics. There is clearly just not enough volume of 3 door hatches sold to justify the design and tooling required. Which is kind of ironic, as I'd imagine that the multi sharing of platforms was surely a good way to lower the cost of niche and small volume models. Whereas actually it is just being used to try and support margins on mainstream stuff.
And if the bread and butter 3 doors are axed there is no way that a 3 door performance model will get built. So if the 3 door Golf goes, that'll be the end of the 3 door GTi / R. I even wonder if BMW can justify the 4 series in 3 door and 4 door GC for ever? That's be a shock to a lot of people.
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Post by humphreythepug on Oct 18, 2017 6:47:34 GMT
I've noticed it at work over a few years where the Clio is concerned; people of all ages would ask for three doors, now it's never even mentioned, however Captur now out sells Clio anyway.
Fashions change, I know some have an issue with Crossovers or SUV's; why I haven't a clue, maybe it's like their favourite comfy chair has been replaced or they don't like change!
Anyway, back in the day someone would have a Clio, have a kid or 2 and then reluctantly buy a Scenic, now a Captur, which physically isn't much bigger than a Clio but internally is a far better layout and has more space than a Clio, is sufficient for their needs.
I can't see mainstream Coupe's or 3 doors being back, any time soon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 7:36:24 GMT
Apart from the traditional hot-hatches, Golf GTi/R, Focus RS and the like I have never really seen a need for a small 3 door hatch. I guess the more senior driver likes them but they are impractical if you have a small family (one reason why we sold the Mini). Up against smaller SUV's they are just not needed anymore in basic to mid spec guise. Continue with high-spec performance variants, yes please but otherwise I can see the point of a slightly raised driving position and access to the rear (albeit still tight) in something like a Juke or similar. Keeps 3 doors as performance cars, coupes and cabrio's I agree with all of that. Outside sportscars/coupes etc, only very small city cars merit 3drs.
But I would add that the senior drivers who used to like the three door hatch for the wider-opening door now favour the mini-SUV for its raised seating position. Both my 70-something parents switched from a normal car to an SUV-type vehicle last time they changed car (Countryman and SQ5), as did my father-in-law (Qashqai) and both sets of aunts/uncles (Forester and Duster).
We're an ageing population so ultimately what they buy will be what sells. also people are getting bigger (all directions) so getting in the back of a 2/3 door is getting harder. Much as wide opening doors are a benefit too, they are a pain in tight car spaces. I love a nice 3 door but ultimately would probably by a 5 door for it's practicality unless it looked pants. i think Coupe's are a different ball game and there are loads more around now than say when the Calibra was launched. I think the Scirocco is a red herring as it's probably close to the end of it's lifecyle, but the 3 door A3 is a comment on what people buy now. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 18, 2017 8:12:43 GMT
I think the point about cars getting ever wider, car spaces not getting bigger, and the doors on two door models being to big to practically open far enough is a valid one.
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Post by Blarno on Oct 18, 2017 10:04:05 GMT
I've noticed it at work over a few years where the Clio is concerned; people of all ages would ask for three doors, now it's never even mentioned, however Captur now out sells Clio anyway. Fashions change, I know some have an issue with Crossovers or SUV's; why I haven't a clue, maybe it's like their favourite comfy chair has been replaced or they don't like change! Anyway, back in the day someone would have a Clio, have a kid or 2 and then reluctantly buy a Scenic, now a Captur, which physically isn't much bigger than a Clio but internally is a far better layout and has more space than a Clio, is sufficient for their needs. I can't see mainstream Coupe's or 3 doors being back, any time soon. I can answer that easily: I don't like tall cars and I like being low down. Plus, a lot of them are all mouth and no trousers - looking all rugged and off roady when they're anything but. You nailed it with one word: Fashion. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 18, 2017 15:34:32 GMT
I've noticed it at work over a few years where the Clio is concerned; people of all ages would ask for three doors, now it's never even mentioned, however Captur now out sells Clio anyway. Fashions change, I know some have an issue with Crossovers or SUV's; why I haven't a clue, maybe it's like their favourite comfy chair has been replaced or they don't like change! Anyway, back in the day someone would have a Clio, have a kid or 2 and then reluctantly buy a Scenic, now a Captur, which physically isn't much bigger than a Clio but internally is a far better layout and has more space than a Clio, is sufficient for their needs. I can't see mainstream Coupe's or 3 doors being back, any time soon. I can answer that easily: I don't like tall cars and I like being low down. Plus, a lot of them are all mouth and no trousers - looking all rugged and off roady when they're anything but.You nailed it with one word: Fashion. I understand that - you build a product where you're arse is about 2 inches from the tarmac, so anything above that seems high. Fashion is as good a reason as any other to buy a car and all cars have a certain image, whether or not it's true. SAAB traded on their aeronautical heritage with pictures in the background of Viggens etc, driven by pilots, despite the car company having nothing to do with the aircraft division - and their audience bought it. |
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Post by ChrisM on Oct 18, 2017 17:50:18 GMT
Personally I think fashion is crap - people trying to get you to spend money on things you don't really need just because they are the latest style.
I've never changed cars for fashion reasons, I need/want something practical and a decent MPV with removable seats as far more appealing to me than an SUV, but the marketing bods have decided that there is no market for proper MPVs any more.... even Renault won#t sell the current Espace in the UK; you can't even get an Espa (that's a non-CE version) ;-)
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Post by Ben on Oct 18, 2017 17:59:52 GMT
Personally I think fashion is crap And yet you gave me so much grief over the Prius... |
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Post by Blarno on Oct 18, 2017 18:01:28 GMT
I can answer that easily: I don't like tall cars and I like being low down. Plus, a lot of them are all mouth and no trousers - looking all rugged and off roady when they're anything but.You nailed it with one word: Fashion. I understand that - you build a product where you're arse is about 2 inches from the tarmac, so anything above that seems high. Fashion is as good a reason as any other to buy a car and all cars have a certain image, whether or not it's true. SAAB traded on their aeronautical heritage with pictures in the background of Viggens etc, driven by pilots, despite the car company having nothing to do with the aircraft division - and their audience bought it. I've always liked sitting low down, even before I worked for BAC. I like my arse to be as low as my humour. I also didn't buy a SAAB for the image, I bought it because it was cheaper, better equipped and less leggy than the equivalent Mondeo. And the relative rarity. And the fact that it's basically a Vectra and the bits are easy to find, despite internet fears. |
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Post by ChrisM on Oct 18, 2017 19:03:43 GMT
Personally I think fashion is crap And yet you gave me so much grief over the Prius... The Prius isn't fashion, it's just plain ugly. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 7:45:30 GMT
Personally I think fashion is crap It won't surprise anyone who's ever seen me to conclude that I also hold this opinion! |
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Post by LandieMark on Oct 19, 2017 8:26:47 GMT
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Post by michael on Oct 19, 2017 8:45:05 GMT
I wonder if it's just that people don't buy and enjoy cars in the same way they once did. I remember reading that more and more people would value their computer over their car when I was at university and I imagine now that's the case with phones, too. Practicality has become more desirable than looks alone and an SUV, with the benefit of a raised driving position and space, is a more appealing prospect than a conventional MPV, estate or hatchback. I can't see the coupé making a comeback anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 9:04:08 GMT
I think that the appeal of the SUV is very much about looks - just the rugged appearance rather than something more aesthetic.
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Post by Tim on Oct 19, 2017 9:14:34 GMT
I think a large part is to do with the increasing average age of the population, the SUVs and MPVs give easier access for the older types.
However perhaps the rejection of MPVs is because they're seen, more increasingly, as the practical option whereas the SUV is sold with a 'sporty' image which appeals more to those who are young at heart and also still pretty active?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 9:17:58 GMT
My dad certainly fits that bill, but my general impression is that they are bought by an image-conscious and younger demographic.
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Post by michael on Oct 19, 2017 9:33:06 GMT
However perhaps the rejection of MPVs is because they're seen, more increasingly, as the practical option whereas the SUV is sold with a 'sporty' image which appeals more to those who are young at heart and also still pretty active? I think that's spot on. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 9:41:35 GMT
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