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F-Ook
Oct 5, 2017 12:39:08 GMT
Post by PG on Oct 5, 2017 12:39:08 GMT
The reason I'm buying a Discovery, and the reason many others do, is that they're the best cross between utility and car on the market. The X5 and so on are estate cars on stilts, the boot isn't there for heavy duty work and it's not that big either. The closest alternatives are the Land Cruiser and Shogun, both have their following but the Land Cruiser isn't an option for me as they have standard third row seats which raise the boot floor by about 15cm and reduce the headroom by the same amount. Discovery's might break down occasionally but when they're working they are without rival. Based on our own, I'd say that the interior of the shogun is about where the Disco 3 was when it was first launched. Lots of plastic and quite basic looking. The Disco 4 really moved on in the interior. |
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F-Ook
Oct 5, 2017 14:36:45 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Oct 5, 2017 14:36:45 GMT
The reason I'm buying a Discovery, and the reason many others do, is that they're the best cross between utility and car on the market. The X5 and so on are estate cars on stilts, the boot isn't there for heavy duty work and it's not that big either. The closest alternatives are the Land Cruiser and Shogun, both have their following but the Land Cruiser isn't an option for me as they have standard third row seats which raise the boot floor by about 15cm and reduce the headroom by the same amount. Discovery's might break down occasionally but when they're working they are without rival. Yes, but the utility thing is surely of need to few people without the need to move bears around. Certainly the two couples I know who have one could easily fulfil all their needs with a large 4wd estate car. I'm pretty sure they just liked the country squire image of the D4.
In fact, my most country squire friend drives a last-gen A6 Allroad and swears that on suitable tyres it does everything anyone actually needs when it comes to the rough stuff, whilst also being a swift executive express and a capacious family wagon (they have two small boys) the rest of the time.
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F-Ook
Oct 5, 2017 17:10:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by michael on Oct 5, 2017 17:10:41 GMT
Without doubt there are those who don’t need any sort of utility but choose to drive an SUV of any description when something like a Fiesta might do but I’m all for people exercising their right to drive what they like.
At the same time there is a large market for those who do want practical but comfortable vehicle. If you ever go to Burghley horse trials you’ll notice the car park is a sea of Discovery’s because they can tow 3.5t. Yes a pickup might do the same but it’s not a comfortable car the rest of the time. I know a lot people who have them, and Range Rovers who really do get a lot of use out of their capabilities.
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F-Ook
Oct 5, 2017 18:18:15 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Oct 5, 2017 18:18:15 GMT
Oh of course. But being annoyed by the unreliability of something when you were warned is a trifle silly.
Oddly enough, the only two people I know who have Range Rover Sports (the original version) haven't reported any issues and seem generally very pleased with their choice.
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F-Ook
Oct 5, 2017 18:24:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by michael on Oct 5, 2017 18:24:48 GMT
Most gen 1 Range Rover Sports I see seem to list to one side. I’m sure they have suspension issues.
I’m only arguing the toss because I’m in denial about the inevitable failures but I’ll have a two year warranty which should ease the pain.
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F-Ook
Oct 6, 2017 7:54:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by bryan on Oct 6, 2017 7:54:20 GMT
With my evoque various bits fell off, it never actually broke down but didn't inspire confidence that it wouldn't.
The dealers seemed very good at warm chamois treatment to resolve issues though.
Eventually it settled down after a year or so of things falling off and getting fixed by the dealer....best to think of it like a Barbour jacket, horrible new and much better well worn in.....still have my own which I got at 16 and starting to get the right patina 😁
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F-Ook
Oct 6, 2017 9:30:18 GMT
Post by LandieMark on Oct 6, 2017 9:30:18 GMT
To be fair to it, wasn’t one of the bits falling off your fault? 🤔😂
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F-Ook
Oct 6, 2017 9:59:55 GMT
Post by Tim on Oct 6, 2017 9:59:55 GMT
I see a 13 plate Defender 90 every morning that has taken on a slight list to the right.
When I worked at the garage the appearance of Range Rover products (usually around 5 years old) was always met with a groan from the workshop, the electric handbrakes were a particular bugbear but there were a couple of air suspension issues as well.
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F-Ook
Oct 6, 2017 12:08:02 GMT
Post by LandieMark on Oct 6, 2017 12:08:02 GMT
Probably a broken spring. Useless fact of the day - older Defenders have longer springs on the driver side than they do on the passenger side. It is to accommodate weight of driver and fuel which is under the driver’s seat.
If you own an older Land Rover/Range Rover you are much better taking to to a specialist as they often have the tools and workaround to save time and money. I would actually happily own a D2 having learnt about the major issues with them. All of the issues are simple to fix.
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F-Ook
Oct 6, 2017 16:59:29 GMT
Post by bryan on Oct 6, 2017 16:59:29 GMT
To be fair to it, wasn’t one of the bits falling off your fault? 🤔😂 I still maintain an off road vehicle should be able to reverse lightly into a topiary peacock without significant damage - certainly not having to replace the whole bumper because a bit of plastic pulled off!! lets call it 50/50! IT was satisfying digging out that bloody peacock   |
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F-Ook
Oct 10, 2017 9:30:17 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Oct 10, 2017 9:30:17 GMT
To be fair to it, wasn’t one of the bits falling off your fault? 🤔😂 I still maintain an off road vehicle should be able to reverse lightly into a topiary peacock without significant damage - certainly not having to replace the whole bumper because a bit of plastic pulled off!! That ridiculous! And I don't just mean topiary peacocks...
In August, we were with my mother in her Countryman when she had to pull on to the verge on a narrow country lane to avoid an oncoming road hog and was unlucky to encounter a small drainage channel hidden under the undergrowth. There was quite a bang as the nearside front wheel dropped in and out of it. We extricated the car and discovered lying on the verge a largish broken-off flap of plastic which should extend under the front bumper in front of the front wheel, and the inner wheel liner (to which it had been attached) was askew.
Predictably my mother was furious (car was only 6 months old). However she was considerably mollified when she took it back to the dealership in Ipswich to inspect and fix it, and they charged her just £30.
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F-Ook
Oct 10, 2017 10:08:44 GMT
Post by Tim on Oct 10, 2017 10:08:44 GMT
To complete the story, was the road hog in a full fat off-roader, like an X5 or RR?
They're often the ones most scared of going anywhere near the dirt at the edge of the road.
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F-Ook
Oct 10, 2017 10:43:02 GMT
Post by bryan on Oct 10, 2017 10:43:02 GMT
I think the bill cost the lease company around £1500 - the black panels below the lights are plastic welded to the bumper so had to be replaced too. It is madness and was obviously a clip in panel - but LR didn't sell replacements separately.....
It was satisfying digging out that bloody Peacock though!
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F-Ook
Oct 10, 2017 12:52:50 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Oct 10, 2017 12:52:50 GMT
To complete the story, was the road hog in a full fat off-roader, like an X5 or RR? They're often the ones most scared of going anywhere near the dirt at the edge of the road. To be honest I think it was an MX-5. |
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F-Ook
Oct 10, 2017 15:08:11 GMT
Post by Martin on Oct 10, 2017 15:08:11 GMT
I had a really good look around the F Pace on Saturday, a mid range R Sport and a well equipped S Diesel. It's a car I genuinely liked, but I was really disappointed with the quality and the way it was put together. The external door handles means first impressions aren't great, but it's the interior that really lets it down imho. The door cards and centre console are especially poor and some of the trim didn't line up properly. It feels surprisingly small inside and rear space is poor, my head touched the roof!
I appreciate that we all have different views on what makes a good / quality interior, but I can't believe anyone would think it's good enough for the price.
Not an issue for Pete on a "ludicrously cheap PCP", but at £60k for the S and a relatively high PCP payment, it makes no sense to me.
It feels like it's based on the XE rather than XF, which was much better inside. But even that's taken a step backwards, the previous model was a close second when I was looking 3 years ago and it was the high quality full leather / suede headliner and great level of standard equipment that compensated for the dated tech and made it a good place to sit, but despite feeling a lot more modern, the new model doesn't have a special feel at all.
While I'm at it, I also think the Velar is a bit overrated. It was nice but the R Dynamic HSE didn't have a leather dash top and felt cramped inside, no bigger than an Evoque really. The twin screens looked great but felt rather over complicated to use and would take a long time to get used to.
On a more positive note, the F Type has improved considerably since I last looked at one, the 400 Sport I looked at was really nice. The FF Range Rover Vogue SE was lovely inside, the quality of the leather in particular was fabulous.
Going back to the Discovery 4, they're pretty good value lightly used and there's lots of choice of well specced examples.
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F-Ook
Oct 10, 2017 16:40:12 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Oct 10, 2017 16:40:12 GMT
As regards quality, I had the same reaction when I looked at the XE-S last year. It just wasn't that nice to sit in, which is a killer comment to have to make about a Jaguar of all cars.
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F-Ook
Oct 10, 2017 17:00:46 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 10, 2017 17:00:46 GMT
I would think mid-life refreshes will address any quality concerns regarding the interior. BMW used to be famous for crap interior quality on a new model before sorting it out later.
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 8:10:25 GMT
Post by michael on Oct 11, 2017 8:10:25 GMT
I would think mid-life refreshes will address any quality concerns regarding the interior. BMW used to be famous for crap interior quality on a new model before sorting it out later. I'm not sure BMW was ever famous for it. The E90 and E60 yes but these days it knows it can't get away with it. The XE looks cheap, it's the design as much as the materials. The problem is that same interior lifted into the F-Pace is a long way from good enough when it's priced against the X5 and Q7. To sort it out would require more than tinkering around with the materials, it'll require an all new interior which I would have thought unlikely. |
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 8:36:15 GMT
Post by PetrolEd on Oct 11, 2017 8:36:15 GMT
Odd that the same company can design the F-Type and also the XE and XF. I guess Jag had identified the 3 box saloon & estate as a dying market so put all their energy into the E&F Pace instead.
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 8:46:44 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 11, 2017 8:46:44 GMT
I would think mid-life refreshes will address any quality concerns regarding the interior. BMW used to be famous for crap interior quality on a new model before sorting it out later. I'm not sure BMW was ever famous for it. The E90 and E60 yes but these days it knows it can't get away with it. The XE looks cheap, it's the design as much as the materials. The problem is that same interior lifted into the F-Pace is a long way from good enough when it's priced against the X5 and Q7. To sort it out would require more than tinkering around with the materials, it'll require an all new interior which I would have thought unlikely. Add the first generation 1-series, 2-series, X1 and X3 to that list. The budget only goes so far, hence the mid-life refresh once a few years of production have gone by. |
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 9:12:34 GMT
Post by michael on Oct 11, 2017 9:12:34 GMT
As you say, they don't do it now.
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 9:35:05 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 11, 2017 9:35:05 GMT
As you say, they don't do it now. They don't do it now. As I said, they used to be famous for it and gave examples. BMW are further along the "premium" curve than Jaguar who, despite having the backing of TATA and more budget than they have had before, probably have to work under greater fiscal constraints - similar to the ones BMW were working under when they produced fewer cars and were trying to expand into new niches. Hopefully, as Jaguar grows they'll start to get these things right first time as BMW does now. |
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 9:42:26 GMT
Post by michael on Oct 11, 2017 9:42:26 GMT
They weren't famous for it. Jaguars problems aren't the interior budget but the interior design, they know they played it safe and got it wrong.
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 9:59:08 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 11, 2017 9:59:08 GMT
They weren't famous for it. Jaguars problems aren't the interior budget but the interior design, they know they played it safe and got it wrong. I disagree, it was the first comment on every BMW review through the 2000s of those models. The definition of "famous" is "known about by many people". Many people knew about it, therefore they were famous for it.  |
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 10:00:26 GMT
Post by michael on Oct 11, 2017 10:00:26 GMT
I'd say they were famous for getting stuck in the snow and their drivers being of a certain character! |
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 10:10:10 GMT
Post by Tim on Oct 11, 2017 10:10:10 GMT
I'd say they were famous for ..................... their drivers being of a certain character!
Thank God for Audi
Haven't there been a few comments about the latest 5 series having lower quality plastics low down in the cockpit? Anyway, it doesn't really matter what the car mags' reviews say, it's only a few folk like us that read them nowadays.
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 10:21:39 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 11, 2017 10:21:39 GMT
I'd say they were famous for getting stuck in the snow and their drivers being of a certain character! Actually, that is quite true!  |
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 10:22:56 GMT
Post by michael on Oct 11, 2017 10:22:56 GMT
I've had three.
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 12:11:45 GMT
Post by Martin on Oct 11, 2017 12:11:45 GMT
I'd say they were famous for ..................... their drivers being of a certain character!
Thank God for Audi
Haven't there been a few comments about the latest 5 series having lower quality plastics low down in the cockpit? Anyway, it doesn't really matter what the car mags' reviews say, it's only a few folk like us that read them nowadays.
That's true, the current 5 is a step backwards in a number of areas, but it's still well ahead of the XF. Back to an earlier point, there was a huge step up in quality when the E60 was face lifted. |
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F-Ook
Oct 11, 2017 18:18:56 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Oct 11, 2017 18:18:56 GMT
I never thought there was anything wrong with the quality in my E60 M5, which was pre-facelift. Ok, so leather and alcantara-covered everything helps, but I never recall being under-impressed by overall quality levels.
The XE is just surprisingly dreary and cheap inside. Whereas the only new-shape XF I've been (which was an upscale model fitted with lashings of beige leather and wood) was much nicer.
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