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Post by johnc on Aug 29, 2017 16:44:23 GMT
Tonight, I am going for a 50 mile trip in a Tesla P100D.
The driver currently has a P85D and has this uprated version for a few days. He says that the ludicrous mode is just that and his head can hardly keep up with the acceleration. I will write a short piece sometime tomorrow, after my "experience". |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 7:25:13 GMT
Be interested to hear about this. Also whether using Ludicrous does require a few conditions - I'd read it needs a warmed-through battery and a few other things. Perhaps mechanical sympathy still has a place?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 7:35:04 GMT
Wonder if they'll ever do a P45?
I come across a few people with P100s as company cars and it's the neck snapping performance they always talk about - there isn't a petrol car out there that can compete.
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Post by michael on Aug 30, 2017 9:25:35 GMT
I think I read the batteries are out of charge after two launches in the ludicrous mode.
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 30, 2017 10:26:13 GMT
Its a no brainer for anyone who has their own business given the allowances.
Got distracted and had a quick look at the Tesla 3. Seems a lot of the benefits of Tesla get watered down with the 3. Pay per use charging rather than free, decent but not great performance and a 250mile range while good isn't great but probably still make sense to switch a lot of co car fleets to Tesla when its launched.
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Post by Tim on Aug 30, 2017 13:34:28 GMT
I think you can pay more and get a greater range version of the 3.
I don't want to like it but am definitely intrigued.
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Post by PG on Aug 30, 2017 14:37:57 GMT
Its a no brainer for anyone who has their own business given the allowances. Got distracted and had a quick look at the Tesla 3. Seems a lot of the benefits of Tesla get watered down with the 3. Pay per use charging rather than free, decent but not great performance and a 250mile range while good isn't great but probably still make sense to switch a lot of co car fleets to Tesla when its launched. I do wonder if some of the people paid deposits expecting all the benfits of previous Tesla ownership - like free access to the super-charger network? |
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Post by johnc on Aug 30, 2017 16:49:33 GMT
I can confidently say that this car is f*** me fast. It is at its most impressive from a standing start, when there is neck snapping acceleration but even on a rolling start from about 30mph, it is up at 70mph in a matter of 2 seconds or so.
The car I was in had full leather of fairly good quality (certainly better than BMW Dakota leather but not as good as the BMW Merino leather) with alcantara on the dash and headlining and a full glass roof. Tesla have dropped the sunroof option so all you get is the extra light without the chance to get some fresh air at the same time. The car is large inside but when I sat in the back behind the 6'3" driver I noticed that I couldn't get my feet under his seat, since it was sitting very low and almost on the floor - for such a big car this could be a problem if carrying adults in the back with a driver who likes his seat to be very low.
The massive touch screen certainly works very well and appears easy to operate but I would have some misgivings about a driver's ability to use a touch screen and watch the road at the same time especially when so many of the car's functions are controlled from the screen. I reckon it needs a co-pilot to operate it safely although the self driving function was pretty impressive, if not a bit worrying - that might allow the driver to give more concentration to the screen.
The car cornered very flatly with high grip and the ride was quite acceptable, if not slightly on the hard side. The doors shut with a satisfying thud and the materials all appeared to be better than average although there were a few irritating minor rattles and squeaks: that's where the problem with this car starts though. It costs £146,000 and at that level you could have a very well equipped Panamera or S Class with a much higher quality of materials and fit and enough to fuel it for nearly a decade.
Whilst this car can accelerate as quickly as a La Ferrari and the performance per £ may seem impressive, that is not what this car is about. It is more of a grand tourer and at the prices being asked, I can't see too many people choosing it over some of the more conventional choices which offer more luxury, more of an event and nearly as much performance.
A full charge says that it is good enough for 300 miles but if the performance is used to any extent, that drops down to nearer 200 miles and if you drive it like you stole it, mid 100's is a more likely range.
It is a good looking car with massive performance and lots of space but at its price point it just doesn't feel good enough to me. Wealthy Eco warriors will buy it but I am sure there are countless other conventionally powered cars which would bring considerably more enjoyment for the same money. In 20 years time when new petrol and diesel cars are banned, the current Tesla will probably be just as much old school as a petrol car and in the meantime I think it is more important that we all sample cars that we can talk to our grandchildren about. |
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Post by Stuntman on Aug 30, 2017 19:57:12 GMT
Thanks John, very interesting, both with regard to the review and also from the perspective of alternatives for similar money.
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Post by Roadrunner on Aug 30, 2017 21:12:06 GMT
A friend of mine has an 'ordinary' Tesla which I think I wrote about on the old place. I was deeply impressed.
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Post by johnc on Aug 31, 2017 7:42:45 GMT
The driver's current P85D makes so much more sense price wise than the P100D. I think his P85D cost c £85,000 and his company got 100% tax relief at 20% on its cost. When you factor in the lower benefit in kind, the figures begin to work. However at £146,000, the equation gets much more difficult to justify.
Benefits in kind on electric cars are ramping up over the next few years and it won't be long before it will not be possible to make a pure financial case for going electric.
However as I said, at the £146,000 price point there are so many other normal cars which offer much more luxury and enjoyment. The S63 Coupe I drove at Mercedes World comes to mind as a car which would give me so much more pleasure every time I got in, than a Tesla ever could.
However the cheaper models make lots of sense and "even" the P85D offers up sledgehammer acceleration akin to the Aerosmith ride at Disney. They just need to get the quality and feeling of quality/luxury sorted and these will be the kind of car we will all be driving in the not too distant future. |
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Post by Roadsterstu on Aug 31, 2017 7:46:46 GMT
I recall Blarno wrote about the one he passengered in, too. I see quite a few about and think they look very smart in a Jaguar way. I'd love to sample one as a driver or a passenger.
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Post by franki68 on Aug 31, 2017 10:01:43 GMT
Wonder if they'll ever do a P45? I come across a few people with P100s as company cars and it's the neck snapping performance they always talk about - there isn't a petrol car out there that can compete. I think motortrend did a comparison ,a porsche 991 turbo s is fractionally quicker .the tesla is unbeatable to 60 though. |
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Post by franki68 on Aug 31, 2017 10:03:41 GMT
I can confidently say that this car is f*** me fast. It is at its most impressive from a standing start, when there is neck snapping acceleration but even on a rolling start from about 30mph, it is up at 70mph in a matter of 2 seconds or so.
The car I was in had full leather of fairly good quality (certainly better than BMW Dakota leather but not as good as the BMW Merino leather) with alcantara on the dash and headlining and a full glass roof. Tesla have dropped the sunroof option so all you get is the extra light without the chance to get some fresh air at the same time. The car is large inside but when I sat in the back behind the 6'3" driver I noticed that I couldn't get my feet under his seat, since it was sitting very low and almost on the floor - for such a big car this could be a problem if carrying adults in the back with a driver who likes his seat to be very low.
The massive touch screen certainly works very well and appears easy to operate but I would have some misgivings about a driver's ability to use a touch screen and watch the road at the same time especially when so many of the car's functions are controlled from the screen. I reckon it needs a co-pilot to operate it safely although the self driving function was pretty impressive, if not a bit worrying - that might allow the driver to give more concentration to the screen.
The car cornered very flatly with high grip and the ride was quite acceptable, if not slightly on the hard side. The doors shut with a satisfying thud and the materials all appeared to be better than average although there were a few irritating minor rattles and squeaks: that's where the problem with this car starts though. It costs £146,000 and at that level you could have a very well equipped Panamera or S Class with a much higher quality of materials and fit and enough to fuel it for nearly a decade.
Whilst this car can accelerate as quickly as a La Ferrari and the performance per £ may seem impressive, that is not what this car is about. It is more of a grand tourer and at the prices being asked, I can't see too many people choosing it over some of the more conventional choices which offer more luxury, more of an event and nearly as much performance.
A full charge says that it is good enough for 300 miles but if the performance is used to any extent, that drops down to nearer 200 miles and if you drive it like you stole it, mid 100's is a more likely range.
It is a good looking car with massive performance and lots of space but at its price point it just doesn't feel good enough to me. Wealthy Eco warriors will buy it but I am sure there are countless other conventionally powered cars which would bring considerably more enjoyment for the same money. In 20 years time when new petrol and diesel cars are banned, the current Tesla will probably be just as much old school as a petrol car and in the meantime I think it is more important that we all sample cars that we can talk to our grandchildren about. I am amazed how many I see near me bearing in mind the lack of charging stations around where I live. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 17:42:13 GMT
I can confidently say that this car is f*** me fast. It is at its most impressive from a standing start, when there is neck snapping acceleration but even on a rolling start from about 30mph, it is up at 70mph in a matter of 2 seconds or so.
The car I was in had full leather of fairly good quality (certainly better than BMW Dakota leather but not as good as the BMW Merino leather) with alcantara on the dash and headlining and a full glass roof. Tesla have dropped the sunroof option so all you get is the extra light without the chance to get some fresh air at the same time. The car is large inside but when I sat in the back behind the 6'3" driver I noticed that I couldn't get my feet under his seat, since it was sitting very low and almost on the floor - for such a big car this could be a problem if carrying adults in the back with a driver who likes his seat to be very low.
The massive touch screen certainly works very well and appears easy to operate but I would have some misgivings about a driver's ability to use a touch screen and watch the road at the same time especially when so many of the car's functions are controlled from the screen. I reckon it needs a co-pilot to operate it safely although the self driving function was pretty impressive, if not a bit worrying - that might allow the driver to give more concentration to the screen.
The car cornered very flatly with high grip and the ride was quite acceptable, if not slightly on the hard side. The doors shut with a satisfying thud and the materials all appeared to be better than average although there were a few irritating minor rattles and squeaks: that's where the problem with this car starts though. It costs £146,000 and at that level you could have a very well equipped Panamera or S Class with a much higher quality of materials and fit and enough to fuel it for nearly a decade.
Whilst this car can accelerate as quickly as a La Ferrari and the performance per £ may seem impressive, that is not what this car is about. It is more of a grand tourer and at the prices being asked, I can't see too many people choosing it over some of the more conventional choices which offer more luxury, more of an event and nearly as much performance.
A full charge says that it is good enough for 300 miles but if the performance is used to any extent, that drops down to nearer 200 miles and if you drive it like you stole it, mid 100's is a more likely range.
It is a good looking car with massive performance and lots of space but at its price point it just doesn't feel good enough to me. Wealthy Eco warriors will buy it but I am sure there are countless other conventionally powered cars which would bring considerably more enjoyment for the same money. In 20 years time when new petrol and diesel cars are banned, the current Tesla will probably be just as much old school as a petrol car and in the meantime I think it is more important that we all sample cars that we can talk to our grandchildren about. I agree with that sentiment which is why I am struggling to get Bess right. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 7:13:52 GMT
It strikes me that the issues highlighted are more typical of American cars in general, rather than specific to Tesla. I think it's done staggeringly well for a recent start-up (albeit a well-funded one) that started out not long ago electrifying Elises. Makes me wonder how far down the leccy route we'd be if the big manufacturers had embraced the idea before being shown the way.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 1, 2017 9:33:28 GMT
I agree with the sentiment about keeping on the petrol cars while we are still allowed to, rather than being an early-adopter.
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Post by johnc on Sept 1, 2017 13:42:21 GMT
We really have no idea what the future holds but the Tesla might turn out to be the equivalent of the first mobile phone which would fit in a pocket - unbelievable at the time but so far behind what we have 25 years down the line. Alternatively it might be the equivalent of the iphone 3 - a massive step up in technology but 10 years later, so lacking in battery and processing power that it is now deemed next to useless.
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Post by Stuntman on Sept 1, 2017 19:03:03 GMT
I am currently contracting at an automotive supplier and had a very interesting chat with the CFO yesterday about his views on how the market will change, and how quickly. In essence, he believes that the limiting factors for adoption will include infrastructure, the replacement of public transport and the replacement of jobs in countries such as Germany. The technology is ready/virtually ready.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 9:45:59 GMT
The infrastructure seems to be the major limiting factor, that and security for it. Considering the problems of pavement charging points for every dwelling and ensuring that the owner/user of the vehicle being charged gets billed. Living in London for aq large part of my life I can see huge problems implementing this, especially in some of the older side streets.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 2, 2017 11:21:22 GMT
I think cost is a major limiting factor. We could easily swap my wife's 4yr old Fiat 500 for something small and electric - we already have an external power supply to the rear driveway that is almost never used so converting it to charge a car would be easy and convenient. It would be eco-friendly and give her a cheap commute.
However, electric cars remain very expensive and the Fiat is worth maybe £6k on a really good day. Plus, with under 16k on the clock, it is still pretty much like new and already very cheap to run (zero road tax, little depreciation these days, cheap insurance). So even though we could afford to change it, it's difficult to justify such a large outlay on an electric equivalent, particularly when the choice is still very limited.
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Post by Stuntman on Sept 2, 2017 11:25:06 GMT
I think the future is less about privately owned electric cars and more about hired autonomous cars, regardless of the method of propulsion.
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Post by PG on Sept 4, 2017 12:15:44 GMT
I think cost is a major limiting factor.... However, electric cars remain very expensive and the Fiat is worth maybe £6k on a really good day... Depreciation on run of the mill electric cars in year 1 is just eye watering. This graph was in Autocar last week when they reviewed the new 4 door smart electric. So a one year old electric car makes much more sense, unless the manufacturers give away amazing lease deals.  upload image |
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Post by johnc on Sept 5, 2017 8:42:58 GMT
the replacement of public transport I hadn't really thought about this before - no more bus lanes!!! What a sensible solution but potentially the end for premium or differentiated car makers when you are just calling up a local hire centre when you need transport. Are we going to have the morning commute? - that might still make owning your own car preferable. There are so many unknowns and variables here that the impact could be enormous.
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Post by michael on Sept 5, 2017 9:06:16 GMT
I think the future is less about privately owned electric cars and more about hired autonomous cars, regardless of the method of propulsion. In cities and mega cities yes. This is based on the prediction that goes along the lines of within X number of years something like 50% of the world population will live in megacities. For those who do live in them a car might not make much sense but that does not mean there will not be a market, it might instead alter the dynamic of what car ownership means. I'd imagine autonomous vehicles will overwhelmingly affect those who commute leaving leisure activities for car ownership. For those with dogs or activities like biking, kayaking or anything else that requires you to carry stuff you're going to want your own car. One simple thing that I've never heard addressed is who would be responsible for cleaning the inside of an autonomous hire vehicle. If you hailed one of these things after a young family had had it you might as well be on a bus. |
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Post by franki68 on Oct 1, 2017 11:12:17 GMT
The Tesla won motortrends annual drag race ,doing the 1/4 mile in 10.5seconds,it beat both the 911 turbo and Ferrari 488,I think the 911 did 10.6 and the 488 10.7.
The 911 did 10.5 in their individual test and both the 911 and Ferrari were accelerating much harder than the Tesla at the 1/4 mile Mark.
The cayman s was arguably the surprise package ,it’s bloody quick for a 4 cylinder 12 seconds dead within a whisper of a 600bhp Aston.
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 2, 2017 13:04:42 GMT
The Tesla won motortrends annual drag race ,doing the 1/4 mile in 10.5seconds,it beat both the 911 turbo and Ferrari 488,I think the 911 did 10.6 and the 488 10.7. The 911 did 10.5 in their individual test and both the 911 and Ferrari were accelerating much harder than the Tesla at the 1/4 mile Mark. The cayman s was arguably the surprise package ,it’s bloody quick for a 4 cylinder 12 seconds dead within a whisper of a 600bhp Aston. I'll just leave this here:  |
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