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Post by racingteatray on Aug 21, 2017 10:42:22 GMT
So, interesting experience on Saturday.
Wife was away and I had nothing more pressing to do on a sunny afternoon, so I took myself off down to Guildford, my favoured car hunting territory.
Primary goal was to compare and contrast the Fiat 124 Spider and the Mazda MX-5. Mrs Racing is keen on the former and thinks it could be a suitable replacement for her 500 (she has started to suggest that she fancies a change). As you probably know, I am not generally a fan of Japanese cars but have made an honourable exception for the MX-5 ever since Hertz upgraded us to a Mk3 in Sicily a few years ago. So I was keen to see how the two cars compare, but went in favouring the Fiat.
It was first to Fiat to try the 124. The dealership had just sold their demonstrator, but the amiable salesman happily offered me a bright red unregistered but PDI'd Classica (base model) to try on the understanding that I didn't add too many miles and was respectful of its brand-new engine (6 miles on the clock). All 124s come with the same 140bhp 1.4 turbo engine and same suspension, so apparently the driving experience is unchanged between trim levels.
First things first, the looks. You don't want a Classica. A Lusso looks much better. The Classica looks cut-price and the small wheels emphasis the big overhangs fore and aft and the slabby sides. It looks almost American – like the body is too big for the chassic underneath. I imagine everyone wants at least the Lusso version because they had two unregistered Classicas on the lot which could be yours with a 20% discount from list… The Lusso, on bigger wheels and with nicer external detailing, looks much nicer. But there's still always something slightly off about the proportions.
Then the inside. Even in this coal-hole black boggo model, it's nice inside. The design is attractive, the materials decent and it all feels robust and well-engineered. Much more so than I was expecting from experience of the previous gen MX-5, which was a lot more flimsy and plasticky inside. You sit low with your legs quite straight in classic sports-car style and it feels immediately like a sports car. It's quite snug (more on that), the A-pillar is pretty close to you and you get an expansive view of bonnet with suggestive peaks over the front arches that instantly say "classic roadster". The manual roof is a doddle to lower and raise with one hand from the driver's seat. The boot is a bit woeful with a very high lip – you are basically going to be dropping suitcases into a hole, Porsche 911-style, and it's not much bigger than the hole in the noise of the aforementioned Porker either.
And so to driving. Pulling away, it felt unexpectedly "classic". It's the narrow close windscreen, the view of the bonnet and those arch peaks, the slightly reedy exhaust note. There's a suggestion of rasp from the exhaust, but otherwise it's boggo 4-pot. Pulls reasonably well, but I was being respectful of the engine and didn't take it about 3.5k revs, so couldn't tell you if it ever sings. Being a turbo, I expect not. The clutch was light but the gearbox quite deliberate. It had a noticeably short throw but quite a mechanic deliberate feel (it reminded me of the bolt-action on the ancient Lee Enfields we used in CCF at school). The handling is there – turn-in is keen (a light nose I expect) and it flows, but there is more roll than you might expect. The trade-off is a comfortable ride.
All-in-all, it's a cruiser. It didn't feel like a car that you want to grab by the scruff of the neck and throw around just for shits and giggles. Ok, I was being careful with it, but the engine didn't feel like all that eager. A nice car. Probably perfect for somebody wanting a stylish way to commute.
The big "but" is the comfort. I'm a fairly average 5'10, yet I could not get the seat to go back as far as I wanted because it was hard up against the bulkhead, unless I had my legs more bent than is desirable. Admittedly I have disproportionately long limbs for my height, but it just niggled. Added to that, the backrest of the seat has very narrow and intrusive bolsters. I have a pretty narrow 38" chest and yet I felt it was uncomfortably gripping my upper back to the point that after a 10 minute drive, I was happy to get out. God knows how anyone with a wider back would cope. I think it's the first time I've driven a car where I thought that the seat comfort could be a deal-breaker. Yes, ok, this car would be for my wife primarily, and she's only 5'3 and slim, but the idea would be for both of us to be able to use it.
And then there's the MX-5, which I was now even more keen to try to see if it suffered the same comfort issue. I toddled on down to the Mazda dealership, which is actually the other side of Godalming. Lovely people. Really friendly and the middle-aged salesman who dealt with me was a proper classic car buff. I wanted to try a 1.5 roadster to see whether it would suffice, but they only had a 2.0 roadster available to try. Oh well…..go on then.
So looks-wise…this particular one was a ritzy Sport Nav version in metallic white with graphite alloys, almost my least favourite colour, but somehow the white actually suited the little Mazda well. I have never particularly been sure about the Mk4 MX-5 in photographs or when I have seen one from afar on the road. But close up, the styling works well – it's a prettier car than the Fiat, and it looks smaller and chunkier, and much sportier. Thumbs up from me.
Inside, it is obviously near-identical to the Fiat, apart from the badge on the steering wheel, with one major exception. In the Mazda, the tops of the door cards are painted to match the coachwork, rather like the dash in a 1990s Fiat Coupe. It's a brilliant touch – it looks excellent and really lifts an otherwise attractive but quite conservative and dark cabin. Being a Sport Nav, this MX-5 came with black leather seating with natty red contrast stitching and a tablet-style nav screen. And, although I read recently in Evo (or similar) that the long-term tester found the seats in his MX-5 woefully uncomfortable, mercifully the leather jobs in this MX-5 seem to be thinner and less heavily bolstered than those in the 124, meaning that I could find a comfortable driving position that didn't make me just want to get out again. The seat still doesn't go back quite as far as I'd want but it's heaps better than the Fiat. Same comment about the boot-space as the Fiat. Obviously.
Pulling away, it immediately feels more eager than the Fiat. It has 160bhp from a naturally aspirated 2.0 engine, rather than 140bhp from a turbo'd 1.4, and you can feel the difference. Better throttle response and just a zingier feel. Somewhat surprisingly, despite that low shovel snout, the MX-5 shares the classic view out through the windscreen, complete with arch peaks, that is so suggestive. This example had 1500 miles on the clock and they tossed me the keys and said come back in half an hour. So I did. There are some great roads around that part of the world, including some very narrow little woodland roads. Nav works well too, when I realised it was time to turn around and find my way to Godalming from the depths of some Surrey forest or other near Hazlemere!
There are no ifs and buts here. What a cracking little car. It's old-fashioned," puts-a-grin-on-your-face" fun. It's instantly stiffer than the Fiat, with a more pattery ride on poor surfaces and more noticeable scuttle-shake (the rear-view mirror juddered in a way it did not in the Fiat) but the trade-off being far less roll and preternatural agility. There's just enough oomph from the engine to keep you interested but not enough to mean that you can't thrash it and stay legal, which just adds to the fun quotient. The gearbox, perhaps because it wasn't brand-new, was much slicker than the Fiat's – same short throw but a much lighter action – you could flick it through the gears in a way that just actively encourages you to change gear for the sake of it. The steering is accurate and reasonably feelsome and the brakes positive. This is a car you grab by the scruff of the neck and fling down a dirty twisty little road. It's just brilliant fun and there's no comparison with the 124.
It would interesting to try an Abarth 124, but at the £20-25k price point, the MX-5 aces it over the Fiat in a frankly straight-sets victory, by a margin I was not expecting.
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Post by humphreythepug on Aug 21, 2017 11:05:49 GMT
Good write up and it seems to mirror what the majority of the roadtests say.
I prefer the look of the Fiat over the MX5; it seems to have lost some of its charm.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 21, 2017 11:38:49 GMT
Where is Renault Guildford? It occurred to me to stop and feign interest in a diesel Captur if I found myself passing, but as it happens I think I passed pretty much every other car-maker's showroom but didn't see Renault. You are presumably neither on Slyfield Industrial Estate nor near HA Fox.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 21, 2017 12:00:37 GMT
I prefer the look of the Fiat over the MX5; it seems to have lost some of its charm. I thought I did too. But up close and personal, I actually preferred the Mazda.
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 21, 2017 12:32:00 GMT
Bought an MX5 from Guildford Mazda way back in 03 and looked at a CX-5 last year before buying the 3 series.
I do like the look of the Fiat which seems more elegant then the Mazda and they appear to have a better choice of interior exterior colour combos. Our old MX5 I thought was a fab steer however and would choose that over looks anytime.
No option of a used Boxster?
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Post by PG on Aug 21, 2017 12:33:34 GMT
I prefer the look of the Fiat over the MX5; it seems to have lost some of its charm. I thought I did too. But up close and personal, I actually preferred the Mazda. From photos I'd have said the same - that the Fiat was better looking. But when I see an MX-5 on the road, it does look better than the photos. I do like the Mazda RF - the rear metalwork somehow seems to balance the visual droop of the nose.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 21, 2017 12:41:07 GMT
Bought an MX5 from Guildford Mazda way back in 03 and looked at a CX-5 last year before buying the 3 series. I do like the look of the Fiat which seems more elegant then the Mazda and they appear to have a better choice of interior exterior colour combos. Our old MX5 I thought was a fab steer however and would choose that over looks anytime. No option of a used Boxster? Yes, except that, knowing my wife, she will probably strongly favour new over used.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 21, 2017 12:41:15 GMT
I toddled on down to the Mazda dealership, which is actually the other side of Godalming.
What I cannot work out with Mazda is why there is no dealership in the affluent Guildford area. SInce Brian Gubbys closed down just outside Camberley... must be over a decade ago ... there is no Mazda dealership anywhere near. I also treked over to the dealership near Godalming a few years back and there was no customer parking space left, few other customers in the dealership and they didn't have a 5 to look at, so the Galaxy stayed for a few more years
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 21, 2017 12:52:32 GMT
Umm, Guildford and Godalming are right next to one another, and the dealership is actually called "Guildford Mazda"? I doubt it took me more than 10 minutes via the A3 to drive from Guildford to Godalming so not really a trek unless you are perhaps on foot. Agree that it's a small lot and they don't have much customer parking.
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Post by humphreythepug on Aug 21, 2017 16:52:42 GMT
Where is Renault Guildford? It occurred to me to stop and feign interest in a diesel Captur if I found myself passing, but as it happens I think I passed pretty much every other car-maker's showroom but didn't see Renault. You are presumably neither on Slyfield Industrial Estate nor near HA Fox. There isn't one in Guildford, there used to be one in Peasmarsh, however it never made money and shut around 10 years ago. The closest to Guildford would be either Aldershot or Weybridge; Guildord town is pretty much slap bang in between both of them.
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 21, 2017 19:11:22 GMT
The Haslemere in Surrey is spelled with an "s" not a "z". Minor point but as my three sons and brother hail from there I feel I should make the point.
That Mazda dealer is fab. They still look after the old MX-5 for Marlene and as Racing says they are old school car buffs as opposed to shiny suits and sales numbers. Interesting view on the two cars. I did wonder if a car like that would be far better with an NA engine as to be fair small sports cars are made to be ragged not mid-ranged.
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Post by Tim on Aug 22, 2017 12:38:20 GMT
I've read 2 tests of the 124 and the first - in EVO I think - wasn't keen as it understeered more in those Queef moments. It wasn't an Abarth version.
Can't remember where the 2nd test was - probably CAR - but I remember it was much more favourable, possibly in the Abarth version.
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Post by Alex on Aug 22, 2017 13:17:38 GMT
You've come to the conclusion I expected you would, mostly because I can't help thinking the Mazda uses the engine it was designed to use. FIAT have taken out he Mazda unit and put in their own downsized turbo, presumably to put their own stamp on it and I'm not surprised it doesn't feel right. Of course your opinion may mean nothing once the missus tries them out!
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 22, 2017 14:35:01 GMT
Yes, and the Fiat is actually cheaper once you factor in discounts and GFV.
You can't get leather in an MX-5 unless you fork out for top Sport-Nav spec, which means £24,195 for a 2.0 (+£550/670 for metallic paint), whereas the mid-spec 124 Lusso gets leather (and Nav) for £23,800 (+£550/670 for metallic paint). That's much of a much-ness, as are their stated performance claims.
However, Fiat will give you at least £2,500 off (probably £3k), whereas Mazda might offer you £1,500 on a good day. Moreover, Fiat quotes a 3yr GFV of £10,200 whereas Mazda pegs it at £8,900.
By the time you feed that through a finance calculator, the Mazda works out at the thick end of £90 more per month, which is the sort of difference my wife notices. Even if you tot it up, it equals a total cost (assuming you buy it after 3 years) of £22,593 for the Fiat versus £24,459 for the Mazda.
For me the difference in comfort would be the deciding factor though. But not necessarily my decision!
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Post by Martin on Aug 22, 2017 14:40:03 GMT
Interesting comparison. I don't like the way either of them look, but at least the Mazda sounds like good fun to drive.
It's likely there would be more equity in the Mazda at the end of the PCP deal, which would help man maths the £90.
At the end of your review, you said there was no comparison, so you'd be mad to get the Fiat! Can't you just tell Mrs Racing it was awful / uncomfortable and get it struck off the list?
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 22, 2017 14:48:55 GMT
MX-5s appear to depreciate like stones, so logic dictates a second-hand one.
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Post by Martin on Aug 22, 2017 15:01:14 GMT
Makes sense, but if you're going used, then a Boxster is the obvious answer.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 22, 2017 15:07:14 GMT
Great write up. When I heard that FIAT was getting involved with the new MX-5 I was pretty excited, thinking that them taking an already great little sports car and adding some Italian flair would be the ideal combination. Then I saw the 124 and was disappointed and your review has just convinced me that sticking with the Mazda version is the way to go.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Aug 23, 2017 8:37:11 GMT
MX-5s appear to depreciate like stones, so logic dictates a second-hand one. Pre-registered or ex demo with all the bits, perhaps? When is Mrs Racing likely to try one? I like the looks of the 124 and the MX-5 in equal measure but for me, the Fiat disappoints because the interior contains too much of the Mazda interior. It's a shame there wasn't more of a budget for something a bit more Italian. Simply changing a badge on the steering wheel and having different colours doesn't set it far enough apart. I don't know what tuning parts might be available for the 124 but there is likely to be a thriving aftermarket tuning and styling market for the '5 so that you can add further personalisation.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 23, 2017 12:31:55 GMT
Where is Renault Guildford? It occurred to me to stop and feign interest in a diesel Captur if I found myself passing, but as it happens I think I passed pretty much every other car-maker's showroom but didn't see Renault. You are presumably neither on Slyfield Industrial Estate nor near HA Fox. There isn't one in Guildford, there used to be one in Peasmarsh, however it never made money and shut around 10 years ago. The closest to Guildford would be either Aldershot or Weybridge; Guildord town is pretty much slap bang in between both of them. Renault in Guildford used to be Mann Egerton, where the current Nissan Garage is, on Walnut Tree Close (I have a long memory)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 7:29:09 GMT
I had a test sit in a 124 and there was no way I could have enjoyed driving it as it was too cramped. I am 6'3"
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Post by Tim on Aug 25, 2017 13:25:50 GMT
I felt cramped on a test sit in a Mk3 MX-5 and I'm 5'7"!!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 25, 2017 13:51:34 GMT
I had a test sit in a 124 and there was no way I could have enjoyed driving it as it was too cramped. I am 6'3" Interestingly, Donald Trump also claims to be 6' 3".
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 25, 2017 14:10:03 GMT
I had a test sit in a 124 and there was no way I could have enjoyed driving it as it was too cramped. I am 6'3" Interestingly, Donald Trump also claims to be 6' 3". Yes but his issue is different - his hands are too small to grasp the steering wheel...
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