|
|
Post by Big Blue on Oct 2, 2024 16:02:51 GMT
Well as Eva has passed her first MoT and I have renewed the warranty I guess it's been three years. I've reported on her before here (https://themotorforum.co.uk/thread/3209/first-year-hybrid) and a quick look at her replacement model here (https://themotorforum.co.uk/post/106497). There's really nothing to add aside from a faultless ownership experience. There was one occasion where the entire dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree on a country road in Slovakia in 2022 but nothing like that has happened since so I'm putting it down to a glitch in the matrix. Another 5,653 km journey this summer only cemented the feeling of family member in mechanical form. I've grown to dislike: Everything pisses you off eventually. I love my wife and kids but... there are times when they piss me off and I'm sure I reciprocate. Eva is no different. - Reverting to Hybrid mode every new start. I either want it in Adaptive or Sport mode FFS!
- Restrictive adaptive suspension settings. We live in an area with fucking speed humps. Eva runs over them in a far more controlled manner with the sport suspension setting. I can adjust the sport adaptive option to have normal or sport suspension (probably comfort as well but never looked since setting it up). In hybrid or adaptive mode I have no such option which means the first half mile of any local journey is about 6mpg as I select sport on a cold engine.
- Transmission shunt. Sometimes pulling away in sport where she's been sat with engine off the transition to ICE is a bit brutal.
- Gruff engine note at low speed. Which is even worse when you press the "charge battery" button.
That's really about it I think. She's a great mile-muncher; lovely to waft about suburban and urban streets and belies her size and weight. Performance-wise she has the BMW ability to make annoying things in the rear view mirror disappear and is still a pleasant steer in sport mode, sport gearbox on familiar roads and roundabouts. I almost never see one in Aventurine III red and I'm very pleased having selected the Mocha interior. The new G61 is not as ugly up close as it is from afar but is still not as good looking as Eva, who in turn is better looking at the rear than the F11 was but I've got used to the front, mainly because the light layout of the LCI was a massive improvement. There is literally nothing I'd be willing to change for at the moment - a sign of my increased conservatism with age allied to car designers that have apparently been horribly blinded in some industrial accident. It's a problem as the 550e Touring would satisfy the need for a nice engine note and as I say, it's not as bad looking up close. Maybe if the LCI does something to the front end.... So Eva is going nowhere. And no bad thing. Ah yes. Fuel consumption. Petrol only is 30.13mpg; a virtualised figure (whereby I allocate the cost of charging to create an equivalent mpg) of 33.96mpg and an actual overall mpg of 35.77mpg. For interest the equivalent mpg of electric only running is 177.69mpg based on electricity I have paid for, or 106.29mpg if I include all the other (no-cost) charges I have had. These last two figures are somewhat altered by the fact that when I haven't charged and still have electric running the highest mpg figure I have seen on a tank is 2,106,720mpg (yes, you read that correctly... based on a nominal kWh charge of 0.001kWh) and doing 83 miles of electric only running. That would be coming off the mountains in Austria, then.... |
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Oct 2, 2024 16:45:54 GMT
Sounds to have lived up to expectations, how many miles have you done in total? . Nothing major in the dislikes list which is good, but all bar the first one would be fixed by getting a Panamera  I would be keeping it as well if the new 5 is the only option, maybe it won’t look as bad in another year….maybe. I use the same calculations. Out of interest, after 17k miles, overall adjusted mpg taking into account charging cost is 41.6 (16.3p a mile) and the car thinks it’s achieved 50.2mpg, which it hasn’t. |
|
|
|
Post by Big Blue on Oct 3, 2024 10:13:49 GMT
Sounds to have lived up to expectations, how many miles have you done in total? . Nothing major in the dislikes list which is good, but all bar the first one would be fixed by getting a Panamera 21,539 miles as of this morning. I keep looking at Panameras..... |
|
|
|
Post by alf on Oct 28, 2024 17:22:58 GMT
Off the back of another European trip in the 330e (which delighted us in only throwing up a single "powertrain failure - stop now" type message this time) I was thinking about Hybrids (proper, plugin ones not the "mild hybrid" tax fiddle) and whether they make sense to me.
On the positive side, urban milege in a pure EV powertrain makes huge sense, and the circa 100bhp the 330e has is plenty for that, feeling genuinely brisk from a standstill, like ICE with twice that. Stopped in traffic with no engine running, moving the car on the drive to wash it, creeping through Eurotunnel on electric, it all feels so much more civilised. Then on a longer highway or A-roads trip - which is the vast bulk of my mileage in both cars - the principal issue with electric - a lack of range and a concern about charging availability/time, is a non-issue. It's also a fantastic idea to regen energy when braking, as speed changes are so inefficient in an ICE car. Also in our case we have solar on the roof, so charging in sunny weather means very cheap - basically free - fuel.
However.... there are negatives too. On those long trips, where we rarely charge publicly (its no cheaper than petrol usually!), we're just lugging a heavy EV powertrain about for no real benefit. We did about 600 miles to Disney and back, of which only 50 was electric, and half that from the initial charge at home. Regen seems a great idea but on the motorway you get sod-all of it, it does a lot more in other driving. Even then, the regen is offset by having to accelerate a much heavier car. And I don't much care for the feeling of the engine cutting in and helping out - the other way around is seamless but on electric when you boot it, there's a bit of a pause (in this and the Panamera I tried). And when it does cut in you might be thrashing a cold engine. The fuel tank is also tiny to make way for the battery, the EV-only range pretty pathetic in our case, and it just uses the battery up at the start of every journey - if it were my car I'd geek out on it more to make it store it for when I want it. And it never makes a nice noise or feels that quick. Lastly there is the running cost concern of having a whole massively complex modern ICE powertrain and also an EV powertrain to potentially have things go wrong with. As we are finding out.
Some of the newer 6-pot hybrids with more EV range might theoretically float my boat in time - time for them to depreciate as shockingly as hybrids tend to. The V8 Panamera would presumably be a giggle if I could afford one. But I would lean more towards staying full ICE, or going full EV I think. Neither is a great prospect either, full ICE will increasingly be dinosaurs at risk of tax and clean air zone nonsense, and full EV has the hassles of possibly waiting ages for a charge, and all the weight and character (less) issues. The 330e is increasingly putting me off BMW as a brand, but I think its more modern cars as a whole. You can feel the weight all the time, and the steering is utterly detached from any form of feel, its almost like it has some delay in it, its more like steering a boat than it might be. Plus it still does some funky stuff even with all the aids off (some can only be set to "low" and this is only a 2020 car). I've moaned enough about the Giulia being too "modern car" for my tastes ideally, but what brings a smile to my face the most driving that after the BMW is the steering, and how nimble it feels due to being so much lighter. I do love EV throttle response - I'd like to drive a Taycan to compare, if anyone can, Porsche can. The reviews suggest they did not, however, make it that compelling to drive. Yet. EV's need a serios bloody diet that is presumably impossible with current battery tech.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Oct 29, 2024 6:17:54 GMT
My Octavia PHEV suffers from all the above. Full EV range might be 41 miles for tax purposes but having the first gen VW PHEV system means its actually 32 miles at best. And it takes 4hrs of charging to get that much range.
It also has the older 1.4 TSI engine which feels pretty rough at times and isn't that pleasant to drive. With a 40L fuel tank it also only manages a petrol only range of 350 miles (maybe 400 on a longer motorway run). Fuel economy is about 42mpg overall and nearer 30 if you use the engine to charge the battery. (Contrast my old Hyundai ioniq used to get 60+mpg and 600 miles range from the same size tank with an older style non plug in hybrid system.
If you were asking my advice on the matter, from my experience I'd probably struggle to recommend a VW product with this PHEV system (mk7 and mk8 Golf GTE and Passat GTE share the same drivetrain).
A colleague has just ordered a face-lift Leon PHEV which has the next gen version of this drivetrain that has the 1.5TSI and a battery with 80 miles range (early Road test reports suggest real world range of about 60). It also comes with the ability to fast charge and can fill its battery in as little as 30mins. The Octavia isn't getting this new PHEV but the mk8.5 Golf and new Passat and Superb will have it so maybe they're going to be a better bet in future if you're looking used but they will probably hold their value better so will cost more.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Oct 29, 2024 6:52:34 GMT
ALF, do you use the BMW Nav or CarPlay/Android Auto? I always use the built in Nav because it needs to know where you’re going / what the traffic is like to know when to use the motor and if it needs to charge the battery. I always put the full journey in and it works really well, the car is currently parked at Heathrow with 15 miles range (about 40%) and that was with a mix of very slow and stop/start traffic on the M25, but I’m still left with plenty for the return journey. Hybrid works really well for me, as I’m either in my local site or head office and both journeys can be done on electric or I’m on longer journeys where you get the benefit of electric running in traffic and longer range. I love going 700-1000 miles between visiting petrol stations (it has a normal size fuel tank, 80 litres) and it does 36mpg on the motorway with just the engine. It takes 2 hours to charge at home and costs a maximum of 99p to get 30-35 miles range. A bit more range might be even better, but I rarely need more and that would be less time enjoying the petrol engine so maybe not.
If the exhaust is switched off you wouldn’t notice the transition between petrol and electric. Yes, there is a bit of a pause if you ‘boot it’ when in hybrid, but that mode is equivalent to ‘eco’ so it’s not a surprise and I'm not sure why you would you drive that way, if you want to make some progress then switch it into sport or press the sports response and get maximum attack mode.
|
|
|
|
Post by alf on Oct 29, 2024 9:37:38 GMT
I think Porsche does it better - my friend that had the Panamera for ages as a loaner, mentioned it saved power. I use TomTom on my phone now, but only from recently, Tina uses the built in nav and it just doesn't save power, whatever the route and whether its in the nav or not. I suppose for the environment and overall MPG they just want the full electric charge used up ASAP. @big Blue mentioned the same for his I think. You have better range in yours as well - the 330e tank is piddling (40 litres) so its overall range is tiny. Tina really likes it and its a very comfy cruiser, good for what we use it for. I obviously drive it with one eye on my future cars, and I rejected the Panamera for that purpose when I drove that (partly as it was too big and I don't do a lot of miles these days) so this was never going to cut it I just find Hybrids interesting, some say they're the best of both worlds and some that they are ecologically pointless (which they are if you get a 330e as a tax fiddle then never charge it). For Tina it works well as >90% of her trips are on electric only, charged from solar. |
|
|
|
Post by PetrolEd on Oct 29, 2024 10:16:11 GMT
My Octavia PHEV suffers from all the above. Full EV range might be 41 miles for tax purposes but having the first gen VW PHEV system means its actually 32 miles at best. And it takes 4hrs of charging to get that much range. It also has the older 1.4 TSI engine which feels pretty rough at times and isn't that pleasant to drive. With a 40L fuel tank it also only manages a petrol only range of 350 miles (maybe 400 on a longer motorway run). Fuel economy is about 42mpg overall and nearer 30 if you use the engine to charge the battery. (Contrast my old Hyundai ioniq used to get 60+mpg and 600 miles range from the same size tank with an older style non plug in hybrid system. If you were asking my advice on the matter, from my experience I'd probably struggle to recommend a VW product with this PHEV system (mk7 and mk8 Golf GTE and Passat GTE share the same drivetrain). A colleague has just ordered a face-lift Leon PHEV which has the next gen version of this drivetrain that has the 1.5TSI and a battery with 80 miles range (early Road test reports suggest real world range of about 60). It also comes with the ability to fast charge and can fill its battery in as little as 30mins. The Octavia isn't getting this new PHEV but the mk8.5 Golf and new Passat and Superb will have it so maybe they're going to be a better bet in future if you're looking used but they will probably hold their value better so will cost more. Or a 2.0Tdi engine would have achieved 50MPG be far more refined and without the need for all that complexity. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Oct 29, 2024 10:39:09 GMT
Yep, the madness of current company car taxation. Stuff doing 50-60+ mpg in a clean Euro 6 diesel, better to do 30mpg as the company driver personally funds the cost of plugging in, so doesn’t bother.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Oct 29, 2024 10:52:26 GMT
Yep, the madness of current company car taxation. Stuff doing 50-60+ mpg in a clean Euro 6 diesel, better to do 30mpg as the company driver personally funds the cost of plugging in, so doesn’t bother. I have a fully funded fuel card so the MPG figure doesn't really bother me but I agree it's madness that I've gone from a 60mpg car to a 40mpg car yet my company car tax bill has halved. Not that I'm going to complain about that tax saving! |
|
anitaj93
New Member
Hey Everyone !! Happy and Safe Motoring
Posts: 9
My Motor: Ford EcoSport
|
Post by anitaj93 on Oct 29, 2024 10:59:30 GMT
I am planning to have a Hybrid. Probably from Toyota
|
|
|
|
Post by PetrolEd on Oct 29, 2024 10:59:37 GMT
Yep, the madness of current company car taxation. Stuff doing 50-60+ mpg in a clean Euro 6 diesel, better to do 30mpg as the company driver personally funds the cost of plugging in, so doesn’t bother. I have a fully funded fuel card so the MPG figure doesn't really bother me but I agree it's madness that I've gone from a 60mpg car to a 40mpg car yet my company car tax bill has halved. Not that I'm going to complain about that tax saving! Did you get offered a BEV or is it not viable with the miles you do? |
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Oct 29, 2024 11:11:28 GMT
It is exactly that Ed. Even with something like a Tesla the company still considers the downtime required to recharge on long trips to make it non-viable at present. I reckon I'd be OK especially as I don't really carry kit with me these days so prefer to do longer distance travel by train (more so I can get work done instead of losing half a day on the motorway). I'm sure if taxation causes non EVs to no longer be an option for company car drivers we'll look again but the tax on PHEVs is low enough that no ones really complaining.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roadrunner on Oct 29, 2024 11:12:03 GMT
My Octavia PHEV suffers from all the above. Full EV range might be 41 miles for tax purposes but having the first gen VW PHEV system means its actually 32 miles at best. And it takes 4hrs of charging to get that much range. It also has the older 1.4 TSI engine which feels pretty rough at times and isn't that pleasant to drive. With a 40L fuel tank it also only manages a petrol only range of 350 miles (maybe 400 on a longer motorway run). Fuel economy is about 42mpg overall and nearer 30 if you use the engine to charge the battery. (Contrast my old Hyundai ioniq used to get 60+mpg and 600 miles range from the same size tank with an older style non plug in hybrid system. If you were asking my advice on the matter, from my experience I'd probably struggle to recommend a VW product with this PHEV system (mk7 and mk8 Golf GTE and Passat GTE share the same drivetrain). A colleague has just ordered a face-lift Leon PHEV which has the next gen version of this drivetrain that has the 1.5TSI and a battery with 80 miles range (early Road test reports suggest real world range of about 60). It also comes with the ability to fast charge and can fill its battery in as little as 30mins. The Octavia isn't getting this new PHEV but the mk8.5 Golf and new Passat and Superb will have it so maybe they're going to be a better bet in future if you're looking used but they will probably hold their value better so will cost more. Or a 2.0Tdi engine would have achieved 50MPG be far more refined and without the need for all that complexity. Yes. My 2011 Superb 2.0 TDI did 55 MPG all day long. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Oct 29, 2024 12:17:07 GMT
I have a fully funded fuel card so the MPG figure doesn't really bother me but I agree it's madness that I've gone from a 60mpg car to a 40mpg car yet my company car tax bill has halved. Not that I'm going to complain about that tax saving! Did you get offered a BEV or is it not viable with the miles you do? One of my team has quite a spread of sites across the UK and completed his 4 year / 120k mile lease 6 months early. He never had an issue with charging or range anxiety so has replaced his Model 3 LR with a Model Y LR. We’re only 4 months / 3k miles in but it’s been so easy, never had to wait for a charger and the tech works so well, not only can you see how many are available it even tells you how many people are navigating to that location. I have pondered going back to an EV company car a couple of times and having something really special as a weekend toy, but I’d miss the luxury, way it drives and engine in my daily. |
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Oct 29, 2024 17:08:09 GMT
That's great if I could persuade the company to go down the Tesla route but they seem reluctant to do so. Our company has recently been taken over and are now part of a group of companies so it may change if the new group has a bigger fleet department but the Octavia has 3 more years on its lease so theres no change for me for some time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Boxer6 on Oct 29, 2024 18:25:11 GMT
That's great if I could persuade the company to go down the Tesla route but they seem reluctant to do so. Our company has recently been taken over and are now part of a group of companies so it may change if the new group has a bigger fleet department but the Octavia has 3 more years on its lease so theres no change for me for some time. 3 more? Is it a 4 or 5 year deal? |
|
|
|
Post by bryan on Oct 29, 2024 22:17:43 GMT
That's great if I could persuade the company to go down the Tesla route but they seem reluctant to do so. Our company has recently been taken over and are now part of a group of companies so it may change if the new group has a bigger fleet department but the Octavia has 3 more years on its lease so theres no change for me for some time. If it's only 3 years away shouldn't you order it's replacement urgently given how long the Skoda took?😂 |
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Oct 30, 2024 6:40:46 GMT
It's a 4 year lease. All the cars we ordered back in 2021 were shifted from a 3 to a 4 year lease with SG Fleet threatening to cancel the orders otherwise. The deal that was signed originally was based on a much lower interest rate and by the time the cars were delivered this had massively increased to the point where the lease company either had to increase the monthly payment or extend the lease to cover their backsides. That's how I understood it anyway but it's not my department.
|
|
|
|
Post by alf on Oct 30, 2024 9:17:00 GMT
Leasing companies are not exactly fond of leasing BEV's currently. The residuals on them have been so low that it has threatened to take down whole leasing companies. Add together higher purchase prices, higher interest rates, and lower residual values and you get a nasty situation, I'm not suprised the lease terms are longer.
On the positive side for companies, BEV do last longer and all the data I've seen (bear in mind I hang out with leasing companies, OEM's and so on at work events) suggests battery degredation is minimal. They are not entirely cheap to run however as repairs cost a lot more, and a strong appetite for larger more expensive tyres offsets lower servicing costs. They are much less likely to be off the road awaiting repair than ICE.
|
|
