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Post by johnc on Oct 1, 2024 10:16:57 GMT
This weekend we travelled down to Yarm on Friday late afternoon and then down to Nottingham on Saturday for a client meeting and all the way back home on Sunday.
Firstly I will say that the roads we travelled on in England are light years better than the roads in Scotland although Nottingham city centre wasn't great.
The i4 is considerably better than the i-Pace was, with it's range and charging speed being considerably better. We also found we could cruise at 70+ and the range didn't fall greatly. We had a quick stop at Gretna on the way down, for a toilet stop and coffee (due to being stuck on the M74 on a wholly stupid 30mph roadworks section which saw us take over an hour to do about 10 miles followed by the lorries overtaking each other up all the hills on the two lane section after the roadworks ended. Aaargh!) and got a 20 minute charge which put about 30% charge in. The same thing in the iPace would have taken double that time.
Since we were down last time, the charging network has grown enormously. There were 18 chargers at Gretna whereas there were at best four previously and we got charged every time without having to wait. This was replicated almost everywhere we went. The chargers are generally much easier to use as well - just tap your credit card to start the charge and the same to stop it. Most of them seem to have done away with the need to use their app which is just confusing and time consuming.
The car is comfortable (the ride over bumps, exceptional) but it can't match the i-Pace for long distance comfort and space. The i-Pace feels more like a limo on the motorway but still possesses really good body control. However the i4 is quiet and importantly has a real world range at motorway speeds of about 260/270 miles whereas the i-Pace would struggle to get to 200 miles on a good day and it certainly wouldn't do that at 75mph which would be more like 175 miles.
Unfortunately we have been unable to totally switch off the lane assist. We have put it down to minimum but that still creates quite a firm response when you try to change lanes without indicating. I always indicate when pulling out but quite often don't when I am pulling back in, well ahead and the traffic is light. It really is a pain in the neck. I could see some drivers of a more nervous persuasion panicking when the car fights back against them as they change lanes. This is a safety device with the potential to cause a very dangerous situation.
In slow moving and stop start motorway traffic the adaptive cruise does a great job of slowing you down and speeding up again without any input from the driver. My only criticism is that it gets a bit close to the car in front before it slows down and it takes a bit too long to get going again but it is better than 90% of the drivers on the road. The Jaguar was a bit better in this respect and braked slightly earlier but accelerated in line with the car in front.
On longer journeys EV's are getting a bit easier to live with and the range now makes these journeys more achievable. I would caveat that by saying that the number of chargers in England is hugely greater than in Scotland and I still wouldn't venture north in Scotland in an EV in the hope of finding a charger. Most of the ones in Scotland are of the older, slower, less reliable type and they do not appear to be fitting large numbers of new efficient chargers far enough north to facilitate EV tourists.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 1, 2024 11:56:07 GMT
We work with a number of EV charging companies and there's a growing reluctance to invest too much in charging stations as the general feeling is that battery and vehicle technology is advancing at such a pace that the need for vehicles to be re-charged mid-journey will decrease and a lot of the infrastructure may become redundant.
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Post by ChrisM on Oct 1, 2024 11:59:16 GMT
Not everyone (by a long way) has the ability to charge at home or work, so no public charging infrastructure growth is plain stupid
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 1, 2024 12:10:49 GMT
Not everyone (by a long way) has the ability to charge at home or work, so no public charging infrastructure growth is plain stupid I didn't say no growth, I said they were looking to see if the proposed level of growth would be necessary. None of us has the ability to recharge our petrol or diesel cars at home but it's not something we worry about as we know we can fill up round the corner once a week/fortnight. We're approaching the days where you'll be able to pop out to recharge your car locally in ten minutes, while you have a coffee and donut during the wait. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 1, 2024 12:25:52 GMT
We work with a number of EV charging companies and there's a growing reluctance to invest too much in charging stations as the general feeling is that battery and vehicle technology is advancing at such a pace that the need for vehicles to be re-charged mid-journey will decrease and a lot of the infrastructure may become redundant. Interesting, what is the payback time for a new charging station? Is battery tech improving that quickly? If I look at what's on the market nothing has really moved the game on from the Tesla Model S that was launched 10 years ago. I'd love to see a load of 500 mile range cars coming to market but won't they still need on the go chargers. |
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Post by Boxer6 on Oct 1, 2024 12:52:52 GMT
I follow a Police Traffic page on FB, and the officer who does the topics noted specifically, that indicating to return to the left lane is NOT required under law or Highway Code rules.
This is because we are supposed to drive on the left at all times, and should be expected to move left when safe to do so. So, strictly speaking, that element of the "lane assist" is redundant.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 1, 2024 14:00:35 GMT
We work with a number of EV charging companies and there's a growing reluctance to invest too much in charging stations as the general feeling is that battery and vehicle technology is advancing at such a pace that the need for vehicles to be re-charged mid-journey will decrease and a lot of the infrastructure may become redundant. Interesting, what is the payback time for a new charging station? Is battery tech improving that quickly? If I look at what's on the market nothing has really moved the game on from the Tesla Model S that was launched 10 years ago. I'd love to see a load of 500 mile range cars coming to market but won't they still need on the go chargers. The tech has moved on massively in the years. Just from a paper I was reviewing: Electric vehicle (EV) battery technology has seen significant improvements over the past decade, driven by advancements in energy density, charging speed, cost reduction, and sustainability. Here’s a summary of key improvements: 1. Energy Density: 2010: Typical lithium-ion batteries had an energy density of around 100-150 Wh/kg. 2023: Energy densities have increased to 250-300 Wh/kg for the best commercial batteries. Some cutting-edge prototypes exceed 400 Wh/kg, making EVs lighter and able to travel further on a single charge. Improvement: Doubling energy density has allowed for longer ranges without significantly increasing the size or weight of the batteries. 2. Cost Reduction: 2010: The cost of lithium-ion batteries was around $1,000 per kilowatt-hour (kWh). 2023: Battery costs have fallen to about $100-$150 per kWh. This has made EVs more affordable and competitive with traditional internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. Projection: Some estimates suggest battery prices could drop to $50-$80 per kWh by 2030. 3. Charging Speed: 2010: Charging times ranged from 6-8 hours for a full charge using standard chargers. 2023: With ultra-fast charging technology, EVs can now charge up to 80% in 20-30 minutes using 150-350 kW chargers. Future Improvements: Solid-state batteries and enhanced fast-charging networks aim to reduce this to 10-15 minutes by 2030. 4. Cycle Life and Durability: 2010: Early EV batteries typically lasted around 1,000 charge cycles, or about 100,000 miles before significant degradation. 2023: Modern batteries can last up to 3,000 charge cycles, which equates to around 300,000 miles or more. Improvements in battery management systems (BMS) have also enhanced durability, reducing the loss of capacity over time. 5. Sustainability and Recycling: New Chemistries: Manufacturers are shifting toward reducing cobalt, a rare and ethically controversial material, in favor of nickel or iron phosphate chemistries (like LFP batteries). Recycling: There’s been significant progress in recycling batteries to recover valuable materials like lithium, cobalt, and nickel, with companies aiming for circular supply chains. 6. Solid-State Batteries (Next-gen Tech): Current Status: Solid-state batteries are seen as the future of EV technology. They promise higher energy density, faster charging, and improved safety over traditional liquid electrolyte lithium-ion batteries. Commercialization: Some automakers, like Toyota and QuantumScape, aim to introduce solid-state batteries into the market by 2025-2030, potentially doubling range and drastically cutting charging times. 7. Vehicle Range: 2010: The average EV range was around 100-150 miles per charge. 2023: Many EVs now offer ranges of 250-400 miles per charge, with some models like the Tesla Model S and Lucid Air exceeding 500 miles on a single charge. 8. Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) Technology: Advancement: EV batteries are now being designed with the ability to supply power back to the grid, allowing EVs to function as mobile energy storage units and contributing to energy resilience. 9. Safety Enhancements: Improved thermal management systems and advanced safety measures have reduced the risk of overheating, fire, and other hazards, making EV batteries safer in various conditions. Summary: Energy Density: 100-150 Wh/kg (2010) → 250-300 Wh/kg (2023) Battery Cost: $1,000/kWh (2010) → $100-150/kWh (2023) Range: 100-150 miles (2010) → 250-500 miles (2023) Charging Time: 6-8 hours (2010) → 20-30 minutes for 80% (2023) |
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 1, 2024 14:18:48 GMT
Never mind all that guff about charging.... Do you enjoy driving the car - does it offer much to the driver beyond being fast and comfortable transport?
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Post by alf on Oct 1, 2024 14:33:49 GMT
Indeed - forget the charging guff, we all need to work that out one day! I look at i4's as sort of the best of a bad bunch, in that they still look like an OK car and come from someone I trust to make cars that appeal to the driver. However, that wheel assist nonsense.... It totally panics me, as I think something is going wrong, and I'm quite hyper alert to feedback. I hate it and would struggle to have a car where it can't be switched off. Ever. Also, on range.... I filled up last night as I had to drive to Birmingham (100 miles/2 hours) this morning. I had just been doing local trips so my recent MPG was tragic and the (57 litre) tank range was 303 miles when I left home. As I reached the car park here, despite loads of the trip being stop start in traffic my range was still 303 miles  |
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Post by ChrisM on Oct 1, 2024 15:12:20 GMT
We're approaching the days where you'll be able to pop out to recharge your car locally in ten minutes, while you have a coffee and donut during the wait. I'm not over-keen on coffee, I much prefer tea and donuts are far too sweet for me.. ugh, can't remember when I last ate one. Lane assist: Positively dangerous under current weather conditions. You want to drive away from the nearside of the road, well over to the right-hand side of your lane because the puddles are taking over the carriageway but lane assist tries to force you back over to the left where you may end up splashing pedestrians and/or throwing up a large column of water. A really simple deactivation button needs to be mandatory |
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Post by johnc on Oct 1, 2024 17:39:55 GMT
Never mind all that guff about charging.... Do you enjoy driving the car - does it offer much to the driver beyond being fast and comfortable transport? In simple answer to your question, no not really. I haven't been able to break traction yet so no idea what the car feels like at the limit but it is easy to place on the road and turns in pretty well for something which has over 2 tonnes trying to push it straight on. However it lacks a bit of soul and feedback which the Jag had plenty of despite its similar power source. EVs are very tax effective and given the current grossly inflated cost of cars this can't be ignored but it might also be their downfall if the Government decide to remove some of those tax advantages. I wouldn't rush out and buy one for driving enjoyment but at the same time it does tick a lot of everyday boxes. |
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 1, 2024 17:45:44 GMT
As regards lane assist-type features and their risk, the time this was rammed home to me (nearly literally) was in Norway over the summer.
At one point I decided to pull over into a particularly scenic viewpoint high above a fjord, which was on the other side of the road. There was no one else around so I didn't indicate. The trusty Octavia immediately panicked that I was going full Thelma and Louise on it and proposing to career off the cliff-edge into the depths of the fjord several hundred metres below. Wild bonging noises ensued, the steering wheel started spasming violently, the seatbelts went into some sort of max-retract mode and the car tried very hard to bring itself to a full juddering halt in the middle of the opposite carriageway. This is not the sort of thing to cause me to flap - I immediately realised what was going on and managed to drive through it, but a less experienced or more nervous driver might have duly panicked worse than the car.
After that I nicknamed the car after my mother-in-law, who is one of life's worriers.
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Post by Martin on Oct 1, 2024 19:26:00 GMT
Sounds a lot more usable than the iPace but a shame it isn’t a bit more BMW of old in the way it drives.
Never had to worry about range or charging in the Tesla, I did 355 miles in one day last week. I left home with 60% battery, arrived in Knottingly 45 mins early so stopped for a coffee/email catch up and realised they had Superchargers so topped it up and it would have been enough to get across to Warrington and then home. Hybrids with big fuel tanks are ideal if range / not visiting fuel stations or chargers it’s important….mine is currently on 756 miles with 84 to go plus add at least another 30 miles of electric before I’ll fill it up.
I’ve not had a terrible experience with lane assist yet, but sure I will at some point, thankfully with both cars, when you switch it all off it stays off.
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Post by Andy C on Oct 1, 2024 19:36:05 GMT
I have an electric work van , and getting about 100 miles range in the winter is bad enough. The real issue we’ve got in Coventry now is someone’s cut all the charging cables on the majority of the rapid chargers.
My local Morrisons had it done, and the cables were replaced a few days later, only for them to be cut again. They haven’t been replaced since
Ive emailed the council, but not sure what the long term solution to this is . It’s a real problem
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Post by Roadrunner on Oct 1, 2024 20:09:40 GMT
I have an electric work van , and getting about 100 miles range in the winter is bad enough. The real issue we’ve got in Coventry now is someone’s cut all the charging cables on the majority of the rapid chargers. My local Morrisons had it done, and the cables were replaced a few days later, only for them to be cut again. They haven’t been replaced since Ive emailed the council, but not sure what the long term solution to this is . It’s a real problem Are they nicking the copper cables, or is it just vandalism? |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 1, 2024 20:32:47 GMT
I have an electric work van , and getting about 100 miles range in the winter is bad enough. The real issue we’ve got in Coventry now is someone’s cut all the charging cables on the majority of the rapid chargers. My local Morrisons had it done, and the cables were replaced a few days later, only for them to be cut again. They haven’t been replaced since Ive emailed the council, but not sure what the long term solution to this is . It’s a real problem Are they nicking the copper cables, or is it just vandalism? It’s The People’s Popular Front of Fossil Fuels. Or is it the Fossil Fuels Popular Front? I forget which. |
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Post by Martin on Oct 1, 2024 20:40:05 GMT
I have an electric work van , and getting about 100 miles range in the winter is bad enough. The real issue we’ve got in Coventry now is someone’s cut all the charging cables on the majority of the rapid chargers. My local Morrisons had it done, and the cables were replaced a few days later, only for them to be cut again. They haven’t been replaced since Ive emailed the council, but not sure what the long term solution to this is . It’s a real problem Electric works van with 100 miles range….   |
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Post by Andy C on Oct 1, 2024 21:44:49 GMT
I have an electric work van , and getting about 100 miles range in the winter is bad enough. The real issue we’ve got in Coventry now is someone’s cut all the charging cables on the majority of the rapid chargers. My local Morrisons had it done, and the cables were replaced a few days later, only for them to be cut again. They haven’t been replaced since Ive emailed the council, but not sure what the long term solution to this is . It’s a real problem Are they nicking the copper cables, or is it just vandalism? I’m guessing the amount done and the range of area, they’re nicking the copper cables I haven’t checked the one by where you work yet , maybe you could let me know! |
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Post by alf on Oct 2, 2024 9:09:33 GMT
As regards lane assist-type features and their risk, the time this was rammed home to me (nearly literally) was in Norway over the summer. At one point I decided to pull over into a particularly scenic viewpoint high above a fjord, which was on the other side of the road. There was no one else around so I didn't indicate. The trusty Octavia immediately panicked that I was going full Thelma and Louise on it and proposing to career off the cliff-edge into the depths of the fjord several hundred metres below. Wild bonging noises ensued, the steering wheel started spasming violently, the seatbelts went into some sort of max-retract mode and the car tried very hard to bring itself to a full juddering halt in the middle of the opposite carriageway. This is not the sort of thing to cause me to flap - I immediately realised what was going on and managed to drive through it, but a less experienced or more nervous driver might have duly panicked worse than the car. After that I nicknamed the car after my mother-in-law, who is one of life's worriers. How is this shit supposed to be helpful? Of all the things OEM's were forced to do across the board for safety, how was this ever top of the list? We sell a dashcam that uses AI to see when someone is holding a phone while driving - just an integrated version of that with bongs and warnings would save more lives than the steering over white lines crap. Studies suggest as many as half of serious accidents are related to people fiddling with hand held phones, people not indicating as they cross a white line on a deserted road probably less so............ Every time you drive in roadworks, on slip roads, or anywhere where there are different coloured strips of road, or old white lines, a modern car goes through this rigmarole endlessly for zero reason. Most annoying journey for me with it, was in the mountains in SE Germany, on a long drive on a deserted main road where there was metres of road outside of the white line marking the roadside. Every time I even nearly clipped it (in a hire BMW 2 series) the performance described above kicked in. So thats basically every bend where you clip the nearside, or the central line - totally ruining what was otherwise an amazing drive. And when you are driving quickly, trying to feel what the car is doing, this is really really dangerous. I don't even think it helps in the way it was designed to. If you are texting or sleeping and veer off the road, the cacophany of feedback desribed above will probably overwhelm the human brain and prevent the correct course of action being selected.... |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 2, 2024 10:38:15 GMT
I think I mentioned that one of my colleagues was driving his wife's car, taking the kids to school, and came up to one of those traffic calming chicanes. When he went to go through the steering wheel was violently jerked to the left, resulting in him hitting the kerb and destroying the tyre. Not a happy bunny.
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