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Post by Big Blue on Apr 11, 2024 16:36:40 GMT
Could be either. Prices slashed and no after sales or service. Nissan pulled out of a rescue package so they’re effectively worthless. Should introduce a one make race series with the remainder stock. Talking of stock: delisted from NYSE.
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Post by humphreythepug on Apr 12, 2024 6:57:30 GMT
Positive though, WBAC will still take them in, got offered £150 for an Ocean they won't take in a battery lease ZOE!
There is an Ocean near me, lovely looking thing I hope to god the guy didn't buy it outright and it's on a lease, otherwise he's just chucked circa £60k down the drain.
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Post by alf on Apr 12, 2024 14:22:16 GMT
Yes, the owners will feel pretty fisted when it comes to residuals! I don't really get what is going on in this space. The EV mandate and all sorts of other legislation means EV sales growth will be high regardless of what consumers think - we are being told, not asked. But because there has been more poor customer sentiment, EV company valuations are crashing, despite this. There also needs to be a more open discussion about China. Their vehicles are built with government support, and the environmental and labour rights aspects are not what we would consider acceptable in the West. So why are we not adding big import duties? I assume Western companies want their markets, but what % of them will they get, and what % of them want a premium priced product? ?
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 12, 2024 14:47:03 GMT
Yes, the owners will feel pretty fisted when it comes to residuals! I don't really get what is going on in this space. The EV mandate and all sorts of other legislation means EV sales growth will be high regardless of what consumers think - we are being told, not asked. But because there has been more poor customer sentiment, EV company valuations are crashing, despite this. There also needs to be a more open discussion about China. Their vehicles are built with government support, and the environmental and labour rights aspects are not what we would consider acceptable in the West. So why are we not adding big import duties? I assume Western companies want their markets, but what % of them will they get, and what % of them want a premium priced product? ? Quite right, I assume the European manufacturers are lobbying the EU rather hard on the matter, especially as its the EU legislation that has began their downfall.
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Post by humphreythepug on Apr 12, 2024 15:35:07 GMT
Yes, the owners will feel pretty fisted when it comes to residuals! I don't really get what is going on in this space. The EV mandate and all sorts of other legislation means EV sales growth will be high regardless of what consumers think - we are being told, not asked. But because there has been more poor customer sentiment, EV company valuations are crashing, despite this. There also needs to be a more open discussion about China. Their vehicles are built with government support, and the environmental and labour rights aspects are not what we would consider acceptable in the West. So why are we not adding big import duties? I assume Western companies want their markets, but what % of them will they get, and what % of them want a premium priced product? ? Because if we did that, achieving net zero and required electric sales penetration would become far harder, when there is an agenda to achieve, certain things can be conveniently ignored! I do wonder what is going to happen with this electric vehicle mandate, I don't think it is achievable at all and sooner or later manufacturers will be sticking 2 fingers up at the relevant governments, saying "up with this we will no put", currently only meaningful electric car sales are achieved through heavy incentives through business purchases, salary sacrifice schemes. Motability or discounting the arse out of the cars as making a huge loss on a car is preferable to the heavy fines, this can't be sustained forever and TBH all the tax backed incentives aren't helping the "average man". Manufacturers have been calling for more financial incentives but if the only way to achieve sales is through financial incentives, it is hardly a good model. From April 2025 electric cars will be hit with VED which is retrospective back to April 2017 plus the "luxury car" tax, this isn't going to help sales going forward, TBH though I think they should be subject to VED.
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Post by PG on Apr 16, 2024 6:06:28 GMT
There is nothing that a government cannot get involved in and make worse. It seems to me more and more now that democratic western Europe is being forced to commit economic suicide on the alter of net zero. All previous changes in technology have been because the new technology was better. If wind and water power could have powered the agrarian and industrial revolutions, nobody would have needed to invent the steam engine. If steam engines had been such a good way of powering transport,then the ICE would never have taken off and so on. But the "new" technology of EV's is being forced on us by mandate, not technological advancement. Mandate and coercion are not good ways to get buy in on stuff. Who knew!!
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Post by PG on Apr 16, 2024 6:49:42 GMT
And on the OP, it is shame about Fisker. As it was actually, despite all I've said above about the market and coercion, an interesting EV. Not Chinese, not pig ugly. But it seems that the Fisker, the man, had talked a good shag - again - to get this far and taken Fisker, the car, down with him.
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Post by Tim on Apr 16, 2024 7:33:56 GMT
There is nothing that a government cannot get involved in and make worse. It seems to me more and more now that democratic western Europe is being forced to commit economic suicide on the alter of net zero. All previous changes in technology have been because the new technology was better. If wind and water power could have powered the agrarian and industrial revolutions, nobody would have needed to invent the steam engine. If steam engines had been such a good way of powering transport,then the ICE would never have taken off and so on. But the "new" technology of EV's is being forced on us by mandate, not technological advancement. Mandate and coercion are not good ways to get buy in on stuff. Who knew!! I agree with all that. I do my best for recycling and on the days I'm in the office do my best to align with Mrs Tim so we only bring 1 car, etc, etc But I'm increasingly aware of the amount of utterly unnecessary tat that gets made and shipped round the world (Temu, etc) and the knowledge that they're made in a country or 2 where coal fired power stations are the norm and more are being built. It also sticks in my mind that years ago I read that a single Google search used the same power as boiling a kettle and then this morning listening to R4 about deepfake porn and, effectively, the explosion in AI - most of which currently appears to be for scamming I wonder just why the fuck I'm bothering any more.
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 16, 2024 9:31:40 GMT
This chart explains why the UK and Europe should just give the fuck up with this “saving the planet” bollocks. The local population suffers and no benefit is given to the rest of the world.
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Post by johnc on Apr 16, 2024 11:21:11 GMT
When you see that chart you have to wonder why we bother so much. The named European countries (excl Russia) could cut their emissions by 50% and it wouldn't amount to 10% of China's emissions. However to cut our emissions by 50% would probably lead to significant lifestyle changes, huge cost and massive inconvenience whilst China, Russia, India and the US largely carry on as they were. We need to be very careful we don't cause ourselves huge industrial and financial damage especially when we have China, Russia and Iran stirring up trouble with an unknown agenda.
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Post by Tim on Apr 16, 2024 12:54:21 GMT
I'm surprised India is only 7.2% although I imagine that'll increase as more production moves there from China.
I think China, Russia and Iran's agendas are pretty well known
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 17, 2024 9:52:20 GMT
I walked past what appeared to be a Fisker showroom in Berlin a few days ago. It was in total darkness with no notice on the door/windows. Have they gone under?
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Post by humphreythepug on Apr 19, 2024 10:27:41 GMT
Was told earlier this week that going forward there is likely to be restrictions on registrations of ICE later in the year, plus less ICE being visible and available to dealers, currently EV registration for us sits at 5% for the UK, we as a dealer haven't sold a retail EV since Q3 2023.
We get zero retail enquiries on EV, TBH we don't get any business user enquiries either, basically apart from Motability we don't get any enquiries on EV.
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Post by humphreythepug on Apr 19, 2024 10:28:02 GMT
I walked past what appeared to be a Fisker showroom in Berlin a few days ago. It was in total darkness with no notice on the door/windows. Have they gone under? Yes they have.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 20, 2024 8:34:17 GMT
Funnily enough, I’ve seen two Fisker Oceans in two days. Nice looking cars.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 20, 2024 8:36:22 GMT
There is nothing that a government cannot get involved in and make worse. It seems to me more and more now that democratic western Europe is being forced to commit economic suicide on the alter of net zero. All previous changes in technology have been because the new technology was better. If wind and water power could have powered the agrarian and industrial revolutions, nobody would have needed to invent the steam engine. If steam engines had been such a good way of powering transport,then the ICE would never have taken off and so on. But the "new" technology of EV's is being forced on us by mandate, not technological advancement. Mandate and coercion are not good ways to get buy in on stuff. Who knew!! I agree with all that. I do my best for recycling and on the days I'm in the office do my best to align with Mrs Tim so we only bring 1 car, etc, etc But I'm increasingly aware of the amount of utterly unnecessary tat that gets made and shipped round the world (Temu, etc) and the knowledge that they're made in a country or 2 where coal fired power stations are the norm and more are being built. It also sticks in my mind that years ago I read that a single Google search used the same power as boiling a kettle and then this morning listening to R4 about deepfake porn and, effectively, the explosion in AI - most of which currently appears to be for scamming I wonder just why the fuck I'm bothering any more. China actually leads the World in renewable energy, both wind and solar. www.woodmac.com/press-releases/china-leader-in-renewables/
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